Tomahawk Serve BLADE DAMAGE

[NextLevel]

BTW, when I played July Open in WTTC in 2015, there was a whole junior team from Trinidad. Many of those players were in WTTC one year before, and played a tournament ang got their ratings. Then they went went home, trained hard, and came back a year after. Then imagine how many upsets those guys caused. Yes, I am paranoid

Yes. And those players get adjusted. And such players, when you step to the table, you may get obviously outclassed.

And there are many such players I have beaten and lost to throughout my playing TT. In some cases, I have been those players. I have had periods when I broke 1900 for example, fell back to 1800 or low 1700s, and beaten people who didn't know my true strength who were higher rated. One the same day I lost to Gillian Edwards 0-3 at FIT very badly, I beat her 3-1 in the rematch simply by finding a serve she wouldn't attack and playing strategically off it. On that same day, she would have broken 2250 if she hand't lost to me. I was maybe 1800.

MY point is that in the end, rating are just numbers. IF someone is a better player and out plays you, there is nothing wrong with it. Rating doesn't determine the best player. But if you go in as the best or one of the better players, don't let paranoia about who is training and improving tell you anything. Otherwise, you will lose to players who you can beat if you just sat down and competed hard. I have heard many people spread such destructive messages and I used to listen to them for a long time until I started playing my event as a top seed and often won it. That taught me a lot.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

@NL, I got your point. Interestingly, I will play U1300 & U1600 in Steel City Open next week, so it is the perfect time to shave my paranoia off

 

[NextLevel]

@NL, I got your point. Interestingly, I will play U1300 & U1600 in Steel City Open next week, so it is the perfect time to shave my paranoia off

I considered making it but decided to stay in my area and play Westfield. If you have been training as I have seen in the last video and you know how to play around your strengths, you should do well. I don't know whether you will be favorite in the U1300, but at the lower levels, unless you take the long term view, lots of wins come from winning ugly which is just reading and controlling spin or lack of it better than the other player. IT's frustrating but it is the truth until you learn to use your strokes against different kinds of spins or you learn to serve spins and placements that limit what the other person can do to avoid the topspin game.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

If you have been training as I have seen in the last video and you know how to play around your strengths, you should do well.

I will let everybody know in this thread

 

[thekleifheit13]

. I don't know whether you will be favorite in the U1300, but at the lower levels, unless you take the long term view, lots of wins come from winning ugly which is just reading and controlling spin or lack of it better than the other player. IT's frustrating but it is the truth until you learn to use your strokes against different kinds of spins or you learn to serve spins and placements that limit what the other person can do to avoid the topspin game.

I was definitely the latter of the two in that tournament. Good luck Ilia! I'm a little upset I couldn't do the Steel City since I'm graduating that weekend. How far away from Pittsburgh are you?

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I was definitely the latter of the two in that tournament. Good luck Ilia! I'm a little upset I couldn't do the Steel City since I'm graduating that weekend. How far away from Pittsburgh are you?

Wow, congratulation on your graduation! I'm in State College.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Thanks! Are you a student as well?

 

[Shuki]

I think the top seeds are absolutely more likely to win... That is in the higher events. In U1700 tournaments and below I feel players are more underrated. the tournament I just attended there weren't too many #1 seeds to win any of their events.

The U2200 was the only one where the top seed won. in higher level events it's a big upset to see such a thing as what happened in the open of this tournament.

Open= top seed 2365 losing to 2239 in finals (top 2)
U2000= top seed 1904 losing to 1742 in quarter finals (top 8)
U1800=top seed 1783 losing to 1369 in quarter finals (top 8)
U1700= top seed 1685 losing to 1623 in finals (top 2)
U1500= top seed 1497 losing all three of his round robin matches.
U1400= Top seed 1375 losing all FOUR of his round robin matches.

 

[laistrogian]

I think the top seeds are absolutely more likely to win... That is in the higher events. In U1700 tournaments and below I feel players are more underrated. the tournament I just attended there weren't too many #1 seeds to win any of their events.

The U2200 was the only one where the top seed won. in higher level events it's a big upset to see such a thing as what happened in the open of this tournament.

Open= top seed 2365 losing to 2239 in finals (top 2)
U2000= top seed 1904 losing to 1742 in quarter finals (top 8)
U1800=top seed 1783 losing to 1369 in quarter finals (top 8)
U1700= top seed 1685 losing to 1623 in finals (top 2)
U1500= top seed 1497 losing all three of his round robin matches.
U1400= Top seed 1375 losing all FOUR of his round robin matches.

I take it the 2239 guy's name is Kris Sabas (white guy, blonde hair, trimmed beard)?

 

[Shuki]

I take it the 2239 guy's name is Kris Sabas (white guy, blonde hair, trimmed beard)?

correct. not only did he beat the player who was way higher rated. but he made it quite damn convincing.

 

[NextLevel]

I think the top seeds are absolutely more likely to win... That is in the higher events. In U1700 tournaments and below I feel players are more underrated. the tournament I just attended there weren't too many #1 seeds to win any of their events.

The U2200 was the only one where the top seed won. in higher level events it's a big upset to see such a thing as what happened in the open of this tournament.

Open= top seed 2365 losing to 2239 in finals (top 2)
U2000= top seed 1904 losing to 1742 in quarter finals (top 8)
U1800=top seed 1783 losing to 1369 in quarter finals (top 8)
U1700= top seed 1685 losing to 1623 in finals (top 2)
U1500= top seed 1497 losing all three of his round robin matches.
U1400= Top seed 1375 losing all FOUR of his round robin matches.

Top seed is not the same thing as best player unless you confuse ratings with playing level. Also, at the lower levels, all kinds of weaknesses facing specific balls and spins limit your effectiveness. This is true at the higher levels as well, but in more subtle ways. And of course, Ilia is right about the rapidly improving junior/player problem. The issue is that such players are far rarer and more beatable than people realize if you develop a broader game. Too many players focus on only their topspin, especially topspin vs topspin, and don't practice enough the other parts of the game required to produce the right kind of variation to compete when topspin is not working. This is okay, but you have to accept the consequences.

 

[Gene Tuttle]

Top seed vs best player

Top seed is not the same thing as best player unless you confuse ratings with playing level. Also, at the lower levels, all kinds of weaknesses facing specific balls and spins limit your effectiveness. This is true at the higher levels as well, but in more subtle ways. And of course, Ilia is right about the rapidly improving junior/player problem. The issue is that such players are far rarer and more beatable than people realize if you develop a broader game. Too many players focus on only their topspin, especially topspin vs topspin, and don't practice enough the other parts of the game required to produce the right kind of variation to compete when topspin is not working. This is okay, but you have to accept the consequences.

Next Level is absolutely right about best player vs top seed.You can see the same phenomenon in most other high level sports. When you look at the Fed Ex cup points in golf or the World Top 40 Tennis ratings you will find that some of the top rated simply play (but don't necessarily win) in almost every tournament or match even if they are not a "Major" and so gain a lot of ranking points while other elite players win many of the major matches they play but don't go to the many minor tourneys and matches that may give ratings points but don't pay well. You end up with some high rated players not necessarily being as good as the more skilled players who simply do not play in as many matches and newer players who are super skilled but simply have not played enough matches yet to gain wins over rated players to get the rating points.One thing that sets aside the ratings differences and reveals the real skill level is when you look at the stats of the absolute top level players vs each other. Usually they trade wins pretty evenly with a few exceptions of where someone really has a hard time vs another top rated players skill set .

 

[laistrogian]

correct. not only did he beat the player who was way higher rated. but he made it quite damn convincing.

He's slightly underrated because he doesnt really get to play players on his level in minnesota. He's the 2nd best player actively in MN and the only one who could beat him is a 2400/2450 ish player

I've dealt with people with faster loops but his spins are just nasty. He's switching from TB W7 to garaydia T5000 though so can't wait to see the speed difference

 

[NextLevel]

Sabas has a nasty forehand. If you can't wear him out or make him use his backhand, you are in for a long day.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yeah. The by NextLevel and Gene are really useful to understand which is why you don't want to get to stuck or hung up on rating.

I'd rather keep focusing on my skill sets and as I do they my level of play just goes up naturally. And who cares if my level of play and my rating don't match up.

As far as a gritty table that turns topspin to dead ball and chop to topspin, I don't know. That would have to be a magical table that changes the spin on the ball randomly.

I can see a chop stopped dead in its tracks, but changed to topspin and no change of directions or slowing down. But, if the bounce of a bad table messed you up that is more simple and different than these magical properties.

Next time you will have to train on one of those Ketler tin outdoor tables for the dead ball no bounce effect. If it has been left outside in the rain, sunlight and grit of the outdoors, all the better.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[laistrogian]

Sabas has a nasty forehand. If you can't wear him out or make him use his backhand, you are in for a long day.

Did you happen to play in northfield competition last saturday?

 

[NextLevel]

Did you happen to play in northfield competition last saturday?

No. Saabs played at the NA teams in 2014 while I was there. I saw enough of his game and saw him play others to know what the easiest way to handle him would be, though for a lower rated player to do it while he has the energy to run around his forehand is not easy.

 

[NextLevel]

I was definitely the latter of the two in that tournament.

You were likely serving spins that prevented the other player from getting into the (or their) topspin game. But often, amongst equal players, it is usually about who gets the first attack in and who is more consistent. Finding patterns that consistently let you do this is the key to most match strategy. If you find patterns that win points, repeat them until the opponent adjusts and see if you can take advantage of the adjustment. That's basic strategy applied to TT. But sometimes, the other player is so good it doesn't matter. And sometimes, the execution or Patten recognition are not good enough. But as long as you know you are looking for something which you can get the first attack on or something that the opponent cannot attack so you can get into the point, that let's you k.ow where to focus your energy.

 

[thekleifheit13]

New USATT rating is 1269 so the next tournament I do will be in the U1400 and U1600. I already feel like I've gotten better since the tournament - my practice today went really well (of course, I didn't get a video). Big difference today came when I remembered to hop back a step or two after flipping underspin, especially since my partner has a really consistent attack. I had no trouble at least blocking the balls, but I was able to counterloop a good 40% or more of them. Going forward I'll be focusing my strategy on placing the ball well with as much spin as possible. This tournament showed me that my serving and pushing are reliable when I need them and my attacking game needs to come up to make me a well rounded player.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Also, Samson Dubina took down some titans and won the U2600 as the 4th seed. He went from 2480 to 2615, absolutely playing outta his mind. He beat Bruce Zhao and Cheng Li in his group stage in the open too, it was awesome to watch!