new human conflict situation

[kukamonga]

does it ever end?... human conflict I mean.
so I've been playing in argentina close to 10 years, played competitions, against all levels of players.
also played when travelling.
don't really remember people saying I hide my serves ever.

so now been going to this club in europe for some months.
even though the level is not very high they take it really seriously and this creates a bit of tension in general in the sessions I think.

so yesterday played a guy who I've played before say 4 times.
I think he coaches the kids so he really takes it seriously.
he said he was in the national team as a kid, but I don't know, this could be a lie.
so I'm 2-0 in sets killing everything and he starts saying I hide my serves.
in the end I win 3-0 but he continues and continues.
he tells the coach to come and stand where he stands, he tells me to do the serve, coach says "baaaa it's ok" and leaves.
then he goes on and says he's gonna film me.
he tells me to do the serve, I do it, he says "ah not this time, this time I could see it".
I do two more "ah no, now I could see".
then he continues and continues.
really annoying situation.
in the times we played before either he won or it ended like 3-2 for me, so he never complained about serves before.
it did sound to me like this whole situation was because he lost badly.
on top of everything I'm in the same team with him so it's like we are gonna have to be together a lot.
how would you deal with this?

there's another guy who also complained about my serves here, coincidentally he also complained after losing a game, maybe 3-1 something like that.

seems like it's common here for people to complain when they lose, kind of like bad loser attitude.

experiences? suggestions?

 

[laistrogian]

My suggestion ofc is to record yourself doing serves and then we can see whether you're hiding it or not. As for not saying sorry about ball hitting the net, I know in some countries people don't do it but at least it's a custom to do something like that in US. I'd say just try to accustom yourself to the "rules"

 

[Archosaurus]

People are bad losers. It's impossible to "call them out" on it, because that'd hurt their ego, that's already hurt due to their self consciousness over things no one except themselves gives a **** about.

I guess one thing you can do is give them an excuse for losing. Then they won't have to make one themselves. Do remember that the "Oh, you're x" or "My rubber is y" and the sudden sicknesses upon loss are just excuses.

 

[violoniste18]

there is a lot of competitions in Europe (were you in France, germany ?) and players are very disciplined about rules, it's mandatory

If you were in France, could you tell about playing level ? (points)

 

[kukamonga]

My suggestion ofc is to record yourself doing serves and then we can see whether you're hiding it or not. As for not saying sorry about ball hitting the net, I know in some countries people don't do it but at least it's a custom to do something like that in US. I'd say just try to accustom yourself to the "rules"

yeah of course I know this custom of saying sorry.
I always say it except that time because he was acting really annoying before when we were doing exercises so I was kind of in non social mode.
it's funny after the game he said something about this in german to the coach, I don't understand german.
so then the coach came and said in english and really politely.
"you need to say sorry, this is a custom, like fair game. I don't know how it is in argentina but here we say this..."
lol
like treating me as if I had been living in a cave all my life.
of course I know this, the whole world knows this, if somebody doesn't say it chances are there's a reason for it!!!!

 

[kukamonga]

there is a lot of competitions in Europe (were you in France, germany ?) and players are very disciplined about rules, it's mandatory

If you were in France, could you tell about playing level ? (points)

if it was just discipline, why not say it the first, the second, the third time we play?
why only say it when you go down 3-0 without any clear doubt? actually half my serves were with bh, with forehand half were like ovtcharov or matsudaira style from the fh side, so the typical ones he could complain about were very few.
there are like 10 players, how come others don't complain?
I'm in luxembourg, so there's a mixture of german and french people mostly.
it's strange cause in the training they speak german but in the streets everybody speaks french and to me everybody has to speak in english lol.

 

[Luis Nasche]

I don't mind it because I used to play in the early 90's when hiding it was the rule, so I ask my partners in advance to tell me if I'm hiding my serves.

 

[kukamonga]

I don't mind it because I used to play in the early 90's when hiding it was the rule, so I ask my partners in advance to tell me if I'm hiding my serves.

the guy yesterday was saying that he can't see the serves because he is left handed and he is standing on the other side of the court.
the other guy who complained before in the same club is also left handed.
before this of maybe 300 players I played nobody complained.
the coach in this club is also left handed, but until now he beats me fair and square. so he never said a word about my serves.

actually he was saying that I hide it with my body which is quite impossible to do.
even pros the time they did hidden serves they would do it with the arm covering.
if you put your body in a position where it hides the contact you can't serve because the ball will hit your own body.

so really the more you think about it the more crazy his whole idea sounds, and the more creepy the guy who said it looks to me.

 

[Baal]

Best to just let it go. The guy never complained before. As for apologizing for nets? Just hold your hand up and acknowledge it. I don't care if someone apologizes, I just get annoyed when they cho over a net or an edge.

 

[Cornel]

Actually, it's quite possible to hide the serve with the body, or at least to make it look like it is hidden, while it is not. But that's not the main question.

For sure there are some people in your club whom you like playing with. Ask them politely to tell you if your serves are hidden or not. If they say it's all OK, watch if the person you're talking about also complains when losing to anyone else and watch how the other player reacts.

The only thing I can suggest you for sure is not to get nervous because of this complaining, it's just a game in which you have to get fun, not to get anxious.

 

[kukamonga]

Actually, it's quite possible to hide the serve with the body, or at least to make it look like it is hidden, while it is not. But that's not the main question.

For sure there are some people in your club whom you like playing with. Ask them politely to tell you if your serves are hidden or not. If they say it's all OK, watch if the person you're talking about also complains when losing to anyone else and watch how the other player reacts.

The only thing I can suggest you for sure is not to get nervous because of this complaining, it's just a game in which you have to get fun, not to get anxious.

the person who made the theater yesterday is like very outspoken and is kind of a second coach.
many times he says things to players and stuff.
he also coaches the junior group I think.

but he is kind of obnoxious.
for example every time my ball hits the net he's like "oh you are so lucky!!! oh so lucky!!! I can't believe this!!".
kind of like serves. you win because of net, not because you are good.
or for example the first times we played I would make a serve like william henzell style when he serves from fh corner but more basic.
he said "that's a beginner serve, you can't win with that serve, not in my division".
also sometimes he'd just say "he's just passing the ball!!!" and all stuff like that.
like treating me like a rookie but I would still win the point lol.

the other guy, the guy of the sorry also has his issues.
before this "sorry" match we were doing an exercise where I had to loop say to bh.
so sometimes I would loop to bh and sometimes to middle because I missed it.
so he complains in german to the coach, coach says to me "try to throw it always to bh".
then again sometimes bh sometimes middle.
he does this tantrum like "I'm done with this" says german stuff and coach says "ok play a match" in english.
to me it looked like he said "this guy sucks, he's throwing the ball anywhere, I don't want to train this anymore".
then we play and I win 3-1 without saying sorry.
then again more tantrum in german "he didn't say sorry" and who knows what else he was saying.

in general in other places it's more of a social thing, and nobody wants to fight nobody so they let most things pass.
here it's like they think they are playing the olympics so they say everything they think to your face, even if that causes you to dislike them.

 

[izra]

if they commented something like that to the coach in a language i didn't understand i would ask them to say something to my face if they want to say it.

but i'd do it in a very sly way, like pretend it's all cool and after they calm down start the conversation with "so i notice your english is pretty good. strange, because you were saying something to the coach in german before. where i come from it's considered polite when you have a problem with someone to address that person and not someone else."

but that's just me, i like to avoid conflict at first and hit them later when they don't expect it.

 

[kukamonga]

if they commented something like that to the coach in a language i didn't understand i would ask them to say something to my face if they want to say it.

but i'd do it in a very sly way, like pretend it's all cool and after they calm down start the conversation with "so i notice your english is pretty good. strange, because you were saying something to the coach in german before. where i come from it's considered polite when you have a problem with someone to address that person and not someone else."

but that's just me, i like to avoid conflict at first and hit them later when they don't expect it.

it's not like he had a problem with me.
maybe he was just saying "I can't return the ball because it doesn't always come to my bh".

but then talking to the coach I was like "come on, many people can't even return a simple loop, this is not the german national team, does he really need to be complaining about this?"

actually I remember during this exercise at some point I forgot if I had to throw my loop to bh or middle so at first I thought about asking but then I thought "I'll throw half of them to the middle and half of them to bh and let's watch him explode" lol.
because it was evident he was getting frustrated.

 

[Gene Tuttle]

To me it sounds like a problem he has with you now beating him after he used to beat you on a regular basis and I would not let his behavior make your playing there a negative experience. He probably feels like his place in the normal group has been changed and feels some resentment when someone he perceives as an outsider comes to the group and takes a position. When I played in Club Eintrach Frankfurt in 1983 I was the only American there. The club had a mixture of Bundeslige players down to 5 year olds but it was a serious organisation with coaches for all levels and it was strictly run. I was not allowed to play there or participate until the head coach interviewed me and checked out my play. At that time I had a Seemiller grip and he told me that if I wanted to progress as a player and play there on anything other than the beginner tables I needed to change to a conventional grip.When I told him it was the same as Seemiller he said that I wasn't Seemiller and I wasn't at a "National Level" ( My rating was 1550) so I changed my grip. It was a big change but if I wanted to play in the club then I conformed to their rules and behaviors (be on time, mandatory group warmup, proper attire, no rudeness) as there was no other club in that area that had high rated players that would allow an outsider to train with them. At first I felt like a complete outsider but after a couple of months I was accepted by most of the club. There were a few players that refused to play with me because they said I was not a challenge and their time was too valuable or they said my style was awkward and prefered not to play me . Sometimes I did not know what they said as my German was not good enough to know. I played there for about a year until I got out of the Army in 1984 and while I made many friends there I was always aware that I was a guest in their facility and not everyone likes everyone else especially when you are attempting to join their competitive group.

 

[kukamonga]

To me it sounds like a problem he has with you now beating him after he used to beat you on a regular basis and I would not let his behavior make your playing there a negative experience. He probably feels like his place in the normal group has been changed and feels some resentment when someone he perceives as an outsider comes to the group and takes a position. When I played in Club Eintrach Frankfurt in 1983 I was the only American there. The club had a mixture of Bundeslige players down to 5 year olds but it was a serious organisation with coaches for all levels and it was strictly run. I was not allowed to play there or participate until the head coach interviewed me and checked out my play. At that time I had a Seemiller grip and he told me that if I wanted to progress as a player and play there on anything other than the beginner tables I needed to change to a conventional grip.When I told him it was the same as Seemiller he said that I wasn't Seemiller and I wasn't at a "National Level" ( My rating was 1550) so I changed my grip. It was a big change but if I wanted to play in the club then I conformed to their rules and behaviors (be on time, mandatory group warmup, proper attire, no rudeness) as there was no other club in that area that had high rated players that would allow an outsider to train with them. At first I felt like a complete outsider but after a couple of months I was accepted by most of the club. There were a few players that refused to play with me because they said I was not a challenge and their time was too valuable or they said my style was awkward and prefered not to play me . Sometimes I did not know what they said as my German was not good enough to know. I played there for about a year until I got out of the Army in 1984 and while I made many friends there I was always aware that I was a guest in their facility and not everyone likes everyone else especially when you are attempting to join their competitive group.

well I have the advantage that say out of 12 players I beat 8 of them consistently.
so even if I arrive late, avoid warmup, do exercises wrong, I still have some space there.
but yeah people here have their strict rule oriented side which is not very friendly, and they are very outspoken about it.
oh and they don't like to lose lol.

 

[Nuke Skywalker]

Recently I complained about a player that didn't toss the ball up. I don't mean he didn't toss it 6 inches, I mean, he didn't toss the ball at all, but rather threw it back towards his paddle. He was a penholder and was super pissed I even brought it up. He didn't stop, so I started blatantly hiding my serves! Hahahaa. He was better than me, but I won based on the serve hiding.

As for hidden serves in general, I wll say that I won't call it if I am winning easily, but I mention it to them after I win the game. If it's close, I'll call a let and let them know they're hiding.

My old practice partner was a guy who hid his serves, but legitimately had no idea. He worked on his pendulum and has now cleaned that up. It IS possible you might be hiding, but aren't aware of it, and that many of your opponents just don't mind.

 

[Gene Tuttle]

You probably shouldn't worry about it. He apparently did not complain when he was beating you and the other coach did not have a problem. If your opponents complain win or lose that your serve is hidden THEN you might have a problem.

 

[izra]

actually I remember during this exercise at some point I forgot if I had to throw my loop to bh or middle so at first I thought about asking but then I thought "I'll throw half of them to the middle and half of them to bh and let's watch him explode" lol.
because it was evident he was getting frustrated.

not cool bro.

 

[violoniste18]

if it's only one player amongst many, you don't pay attention about it, this happens often

 

[kukamonga]

Recently I complained about a player that didn't toss the ball up. I don't mean he didn't toss it 6 inches, I mean, he didn't toss the ball at all, but rather threw it back towards his paddle. He was a penholder and was super pissed I even brought it up. He didn't stop, so I started blatantly hiding my serves! Hahahaa. He was better than me, but I won based on the serve hiding.

As for hidden serves in general, I wll say that I won't call it if I am winning easily, but I mention it to them after I win the game. If it's close, I'll call a let and let them know they're hiding.

My old practice partner was a guy who hid his serves, but legitimately had no idea. He worked on his pendulum and has now cleaned that up. It IS possible you might be hiding, but aren't aware of it, and that many of your opponents just don't mind.

the guy said that he couldn't see it because he is left handed and is standing on the other side of the table.
he said if he was right handed he would see it.
but the coach is left handed too and he beats so it made him look pretty bad, like he couldn't handle defeat.