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Shuki, you need not force it one way or the other.

if you allow a ball to move deeper into the strike zone, you can hit it the other way with full power and control, naturally, that is the deceptive thing. Opponents look at where your body is squared towards. They tend to cover that zone. It is totally natural to impact the ball deeper in the strike zone and still put a lick on it with full leverage.

I wouldn't worry (on faster balls, not on slow shots like a bump or push on a serve receive) about trying to alter your wrist angle, I would concern myself where in the depth of the strike zone I impact the ball and my relative position.
 
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Shuki, you need not force it one way or the other.

if you allow a ball to move deeper into the strike zone, you can hit it the other way with full power and control, naturally, that is the deceptive thing. Opponents look at where your body is squared towards. They tend to cover that zone. It is totally natural to impact the ball deeper in the strike zone and still put a lick on it with full leverage.

I wouldn't worry (on faster balls, not on slow shots like a bump or push on a serve receive) about trying to alter your wrist angle, I would concern myself where in the depth of the strike zone I impact the ball and my relative position.

Thanks for the advice. One reason I try to not worry about it TOO much, my favorite player has the same wrist thing going on. Mj <3


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Played with some utter beginners today. One was a little better than the other.

Funny seeing their level bump up a little when I let them take turns with my setup and explained some things about spinning the ball and playing against spin. Had to also stress the importance of racket speed and they saw for themselves what redirecting spin or hitting through it is. If I gave the better one a relatively easy spin-ball, he could eventually hit through it with some topspin instead of just eating it.
 
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Played a few matches yesterday. Got to the club yesterday as I Wanted to work on my pendulum serves. I saw a chopper there that I hadn't played in a while. Played him in the first match and missed a lot of power shots and lost 1-3 (3rd game was 1-1 with multiple deuces and it was losing that put me in the tank). Then I played the club 2250+ junior and I thought I was going to get wiped out. His shots are just so much more powerful now that when he hits them away from me, I am usually just staring at the ball. MY right knee is also extremely annoying, so it felt like I was going to spectate. But I managed to miraculously win deuce games in the 2nd and 4th sets and played a close 5th before falling away in the middle.

Then I played the chopper again and rather than do power loops, I just played with my slow relaxed topspin style. The ball movement was just incredibly difficult for him to track. I won two matches 3-0. The other frustrating thing for him was my backspin serve. It must have cost him 2-4 points per game through out the day. He actually said out loud "Again?!?!?!!". Yeah, men, like Der Echte said, it is a glorious moment when the pips player puts your backspin serve in the net. Nowadays, I don't even have to pull the rugout sometimes anymore.

I now need to fix two things - figure out why my power loops against high balls often go long (my stroke has to be wrong) and fix my pendulum motion. The pendulum motion, I think I know what happens. I get too upright during the serve and that changes my elbow position and swing plane. I have to keep leaning over the ball.



For the power loops, I have a bad habit of not adding a spin snap when going for power - this I will have to change. Will need some work from timing the forearm and wrist instead of just jamming the ball. I also have to fix this straight arm stroke - I regress into it when I wait for the ball and swing for power.


So you could call yesterday the day when I tried to stop regressing into bad habits but didn't always ;).
 
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NL, a tip from me for the pendulum:

Try to keep your right arm more level with the ground. Your elbow will probably move down just a little when you swing, but I believe that it should still stay fairly high. Brett shows this in his videos.


A good way to do that is indeed lean more into the ball: but also really lift your right elbow closer to shoulder level. It won't feel very nice compared to having your elbow all the way down to your side, but you can really snap into the ball from there.

You said your reverse pendulum is relatively bad: this is probably one reason for it. It's really, really hard and uncomfortable to get good contact without your elbow being very high.

Something like this, of course adapted to your height and limb proportions.

Capture mod.jpg
Capture 2 mod.jpg
 
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NL, a tip from me for the pendulum:

Try to keep your right arm more level with the ground. Your elbow will probably move down just a little when you swing, but I believe that it should still stay fairly high. Brett shows this in his videos.


A good way to do that is indeed lean more into the ball: but also really lift your right elbow closer to shoulder level. It won't feel very nice compared to having your elbow all the way down to your side, but you can really snap into the ball from there.

You said your reverse pendulum is relatively bad: this is probably one reason for it. It's really, really hard and uncomfortable to get good contact without your elbow being very high.

Something like this, of course adapted to your height and limb proportions.

View attachment 10973
View attachment 10974


Thanks, Archo. Do you have any video of your pendulum serve to share? You seem to be an expert on the subject so I was wondering...
 
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Thanks, Archo. Do you have any video of your pendulum serve to share? You seem to be an expert on the subject so I was wondering...
Hah, don't take it the bad way, I'm not doubting your serve: I'm just trying to assist. Has Brett said anything about your elbow positioning? There might be a merit to it that I don't understand. However all of his videos and footage I see of good sidespin pendulum seems to have a high elbow; and it just works for me.


In fact, I might soon. I don't need anyone's permission to be on video if I'm filming myself, and I do a ton of serves. I'll either have to buy a tripod, or conjure something up. Do you think a simple "Stack some books onto receiver's backhand corner, prop up phone" would result in the camera being too close?
 
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Hah, don't take it the bad way, I'm not doubting your serve: I'm just trying to assist. Has Brett said anything about your elbow positioning? There might be a merit to it that I don't understand. However all of his videos and footage I see of good sidespin pendulum seems to have a high elbow; and it just works for me.


In fact, I might soon. I don't need anyone's permission to be on video if I'm filming myself, and I do a ton of serves. I'll either have to buy a tripod, or conjure something up. Do you think a simple "Stack some books onto receiver's backhand corner, prop up phone" would result in the camera being too close?

Yes, everyone knows it is an elbow positioning problem, including me who posted the video in order to share my struggles with people. In fact, if you see the shadow swings, you see a higher elbow position. I also have shoulder issues from my arthritis. The question for me is why the higher elbow position does not move from the shadow swing to the actual serve and why my swing plane changes on the backswing. You are largely repeating comments that were made on OOAK and embellishing them to make them sound original.

You really should 1) read the comment DerEchte made earlier about why I posted video of my earlier serve and the response on OOAKforum to it and 2) try to understand how to come across as having a clue about what you are talking about.
 
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Yes, everyone knows it is an elbow positioning problem, including me who posted the video in order to share my struggles with people. In fact, if you see the shadow swings, you see a higher elbow position. I also have shoulder issues from my arthritis. The question for me is why the higher elbow position does not move from the shadow swing to the actual serve and why my swing plane changes on the backswing. You are largely repeating comments that were made on OOAK and embellishing them to make them sound original.

You really should 1) read the comment DerEchte made earlier about why I posted video of my earlier serve and the response on OOAKforum to it and 2) try to understand how to come across as having a clue about what you are talking about.
Oh, sorry. I hadn't read the thread you're talking about, but I somehow suspected that you'd already been told of this already. I'm not just parroting what someone's said, if you think that's the case. The idea's not an original one of mine though, obviously.


How does your shoulder feel when you put your elbow high? It's not exactly totally comfortable for me, and I have no shoulder issues that I know about.
 
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Oh, sorry. I hadn't read the thread you're talking about, but I somehow suspected that you'd already been told of this already. I'm not just parroting what someone's said, if you think that's the case. The idea's not an original one of mine though, obviously.


How does your shoulder feel when you put your elbow high? It's not exactly totally comfortable for me, and I have no shoulder issues that I know about.


Until you start posting videos, just realize I will start ignoring your posts. You write like someone who likes to pretend he knows what he doesn't and that just sends me up the wall. Here is the comment made by someone closer to your level on the same issue. Read it and compare it to yours.

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28641&start=1410#p325072

Here is video of my relatively bad reverse pendulum by the way.

 
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Last night's AAR:

Got to club early. Club not as packed as it could be perhaps due to weather being overcast/drizzly/rain.

My Chuck Knoblauch Syndrome still persists. Chuck Knoblauch was a 2nd baseman for the baseball team Minnesota Twins. Was traded to the NY Yankees in the mid-1990's (or NYY picked him up as a free agent - old man memory, don't recall). He had some decent years for the NYY. But towards the end of his career... he couldn't throw to first base. His whole life he has been throwing a baseball and most if not all of his career, the highest amount of his throws have been to field a ball and throw to first base. He had some mental block.

My woes from last week persist. I cannot hit a basic FH. I've tried to loop and can't find the table like my FH. My blocks are 50/50. Sunday night, i reglued just in case but to no avail. Originally i thought perhaps it was because I was hitting with a higher-level partner and i'm self-conscious of missing and making them pick up the ball. But alas, it happens with lower-level players too.

I don't recall exactly when my 30+ yrs old favorite racket, Excalibur, died from a broken handle, and I switched to my backup Avalox P700. But I think it has been 4 months maybe. With the DHS H3, I found I played a bit better. I am more consistent than with other rubbers on Excalibur. However, I'm not as consistent as I used to be 30+ yrs ago. So after roughly 4 months, last week I was infected with Chuck Knoblauch Syndrome. Most of this week too :(

-------------------------------------

1) Hit with B. Lately, I have been mostly blocking for him to work his loop. An older gentleman who is not as mobile, can get wicked sidespin on his SH fh loops. Due to his mobility issues, I won a set very easily back in April. Since then, when we play, I don't play games with him and just block for him.

After 15 mins or so of just blocking, i tried FH blocking and looping. Still cannot find the table. Shots were all over. GRRRR!

I decided to break out my new backup racket, which is an old off-the-shelf DHS racket... probably 30, if not more, years old. I inherited 2 old rackets from my Uncle after his passing. I put an old but still playable DHS H3 on it. Put on my old Adidas rubber on the backside. Have this modern PH setup just in case I try to update my dinosaur game from the oldschool PH style of FH attacks and BH punches (oldschool term for punch is 'push-block'). Last night was my first time hitting with this blade/setup. Not a true modern ph setup, but just a makeshift one for me to experiment.

Way heavier than I am used to BUT I love the solid DHS blade/wood feel - which is 'no feel' - no vibration. Reminds me of my old Excalibur, a DHS "08" 7 ply which is good for hitting (the "032" was 5 ply and good for looping). After about 4 dedicated months of getting used to the "pock pock" sound of the rubber/blade and blade's slight vibration. Since June 2015 and my 'unretirement', i've periodically tried the Avalox and couldn't get used to the sound and vibration. I went back to Excalibur until its recent death.

I was able to land my FH shots... didn't try to loop... didn't want to overdo it lol ... either the weight of the double rubbers or the solid blade helped my FH shots. Chuck Knoblauch begone! Strange though as I was playing and getting used to Avalox after 4 dedicated months of playing with it.

I may or may not give up on Avalox.

Switched on and off between the 2 blades and my FH came back with Avalox. WHEW! Probably hit with B for 45 mins or so.

---------------------------------------

2) B took a break and J hopped on. J likes to hit and not play games. Has a modern PH setup. I blocked for him to work his FH loop. After about 30 mins of this, I asked if i could work on some serves. He said ok. For no reason other than I wanted to work my fast nospin serve. I probably should've worked a nospin serve instead, but not confident of my nospin serves and not wanting to make J pick up balls, i went with the fast nospin. Mostly I served to his BH and punched it down the line to his FH. One of my staple tactics. After a few minutes of this, J said hey, that is a pips tactic. You should play pips! I told him i started off as pips. We both chuckled.

After a few more minutes of getting some nice, low, fast serves and good 3rd ball punches, I asked if i could video us, he said ok. Of course, once the camera is on, i had some performance anxiety lol

Below is an edited video that came out to ~1 min 45 seconds. Put some of my winners at the beginning. Included some of my losers. I had more losers than winners :(

The drill was to 3rd ball punch down the line to J's FH. At 0:05-0:08, I saw his lean to his FH side and punched it to his BH.

0:00 - ~0:43 - camera behind my back

0:43 - 1:46 - camera facing me

I don't recall if i was officially taught this serve/motion. I believe this motion is self-taught. It came about as part of my FH pendulum serve motion... trying to disguise it... not sure how successful i am in the disguise though lol ... will repost this video to UpSideDownCarl's TTDers true essence thread


2 notes

My friend and fellow TTDer, 42andbackpains, advised I should be closer to the table when serving. He said watch any world-class player and see how close to the table they are when serving. Although players are almost hugging the table when serving, I have a mental block... afraid my 'boys' will hit the corner of the table, if you know what i mean - LOL at me!! In time, I will have to work that in of standing closer to the table.

The other was the motion, i don't know how to describe it, but 42&bp on his fast nospin serves does a different motion. I, for now, have not tried to really grease the groove on that serve motion.

-------------------------------------------------------

3) Saw F, the lady SH chopper hitting with my 'arch nemesis' K. Went to that table hoping to be able to loop against F. She saw me and said give her 5 more mins, she's tired. Meaning I will hit/play with K. I was a little let down, but looked forward to a rematch with my arch nemesis.

Starting hitting with K. We have chatted previously about the game. He also didn't play in 30 or so years. Was a PH, frustrated at not having a BH... switched to SH. Been unretired a little over a yr. Given that insight, he made great strides in his SH game.

We chatted on looping, 3rd ball attacks, PH vs SH, old age, mobility, etc.

Stopped hitting, and he asked me to serve backspin to him... i did, he pushed it back to FH and asked me to 3rd ball loop. I got some, i missed some. Then he served backspin and i pushed it to his FH, he looped mostly for winners. I was surprised as when i play him and watch him play others, he's BH-oriented. I asked if you got such a great FH loop, why are you BH-oriented during games. I should've known the answer before I even asked the Q. He said he's working his BH, he knows his FH loop is good. We continue more of the 3rd ball loop backspin drill. He gave me some minor tweak advice on my loops which helped.

Then he said, I noticed you are having problems with your picks/flicks and i said yes. He then served short various spins to my FH and tips on how to return each. K said, see? easy! We both had huge smiles after that. I didn't pick consistently but the seeds have been planted.

A littler earlier, felt something in my knee. I haven't felt 'something' in my knee for many months. I put on a knee brace. Was also started to fatigued. Due to work, forgot to eat breakfast! So body wasn't properly fueled. What was a slight disappointment turned out to be a pleasant and welcomed surprise! Called it a night and thanked K profusely for his time and advice/tips!

-------------------------------------------------

4) I should've left, but i recalled i didn't hit with my regular training partner. He was there, so i blocked for him. He's been trying to work his fh loop and is not getting it. he's like an absolute beginner despite watching many videos and many sessions with me blocking for him. It was superlate for me, and i was supertired. I apologized to him and officially called it a night.

So tired, the ~25 mins walk home took 30 mins.

Approximately on/off, mostly on, hit for 4 hours.

--------------------------------------------------

As always feedback welcome. THANK YOU TTD CCers for letting an old man write novels during the lulls in his workday!

p.s. thanks to Archo for the video, I now will follow the Japanese video's naming convention ... instead of 'fast nospin' serve, i will call these 'rocket serves'.
 
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....I'm not just parroting what someone's said, if you think that's the case. The idea's not an original one of mine though, obviously.

Well, smartguy, if you´re not talking from self experience, where is the difference to parroting?? Could you please elaborate?

[Emoji12]
 
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I'll either have to buy a tripod, or conjure something up. Do you think a simple "Stack some books onto receiver's backhand corner, prop up phone" would result in the camera being too close?

Before I bought my Joby magnetic tripod camera holder (~USD $25), I used a filled 20 oz bottle of Gatorade to prop my camera on the other side of the table. But the Joby's magnets allow it to be attached to metal as well as being able to wrap around thin poles or something.

I can't find the link to the one i bought for 25... there are knockoffs also with lower price points.

https://www.amazon.com/JOBY-Gorillapod-Zoom-Tripod-Cameras/dp/B000KFRSG4

HTH.
 
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NL, you can't please everyone. I will try to mind my manner of writing more, but you can get annoyed by just about anything that anyone can write. Maybe some footage will calm your nerves. ;)

Well, smartguy, if you´re not talking from self experience, where is the difference to parroting?? Could you please elaborate?

[Emoji12]

How am I not talking from personal experience? I reference other people, but did I say that none of what I say has any basis in my own experimentation?
 
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NL, you can't please everyone. I will try to mind my manner of writing more, but you can get annoyed by just about anything that anyone can write. Maybe some footage will calm your nerves. ;)



How am I not talking from personal experience? I reference other people, but did I say that none of what I say has any basis in my own experimentation?

I´m not so sure if you actually get it. Maybe hopefully in ten years from now and you look back, you´ll understand and might even feel a little ashamed from these many, many posts you´ve made...
Look there are posts of you that are pretty good and even get my "like" thumb (e.g. the post about that motivation book)
If you liked the snippet, I would recommend the book just for the mental game and learning chapters. There's 335 pages, of which a hundred or so are dedicated towards things that are pretty universal. Although it's all in the context of motor racing: who would've known! :p

Ross Bentley is a lot like the Larry Hodges of American motor racing.



....and then there are posts like this here. I´m not so sure if you´re aware that many forum members just don´t go that hard on you and rather go easy on you due to your age and your amount of experience. But you should keep in mind that this "wise-guy" attitude can be pretty annoying.

One thing though:

DON´T TALK THE TALK IF YOU CAN`T WALK THE WALK!

Could you pls?
 
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Probably I don't. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting like this, would I? So do tell me, what exactly is the issue?

Do my posts seem pretentious ie: trying to make myself sound smarter than I am? Or am I just posting wrong things? Is it my word selection? Am I being insulting?

I'm really not trying to fight, and I'm definitely not trying to act like I know more than most people here. You guys might dislike me and not respect me, but it doesn't mean I need to dislike you and disrespect you as well. However, my posting might be bringing about that kind of tone.
 
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I think most people don't doubt your intention that you want to help. However the way you write comes across as if you were the most knowledgeable person on the subject matter (to me at least). This could simply be a result of the language barrier that we non native english speakers have. In contrast to that is your actual playing level. I think most would agree that you are a beginner wich I mean in no way in a negative sense since everybody started out as one. I think to fully understand lots of these things you talk about you can't just read up on them. You actually have to be able to do it at a certain level in order to really get some concepts and that comes with time and experience. I'm not trying to say that you need to be better than someone in order to give criticism/advice but some things about a level of play that is beyond your own simply don't occur to you unless you experience them yourself.
I know that these words probably don't have as much weight since I'm not NextLevel or Carl and haven't really been active on this forum in the last weeks but I still wanted to share my perspective
 
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I think most people don't doubt your intention that you want to help. However the way you write comes across as if you were the most knowledgeable person on the subject matter (to me at least). This could simply be a result of the language barrier that we non native english speakers have. In contrast to that is your actual playing level. I think most would agree that you are a beginner wich I mean in no way in a negative sense since everybody started out as one. I think to fully understand lots of these things you talk about you can't just read up on them. You actually have to be able to do it at a certain level in order to really get some concepts and that comes with time and experience. I'm not trying to say that you need to be better than someone in order to give criticism/advice but some things about a level of play that is beyond your own simply don't occur to you unless you experience them yourself.
I know that these words probably don't have as much weight since I'm not NextLevel or Carl and haven't really been active on this forum in the last weeks but I still wanted to share my perspective
So in other words, there's too much bark and not enough bite.


Why would your words not have as much weight as theirs? Your perspective is inherently different from theirs, and I want to hear it too. Don't worry about it.
 
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