Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

I've been playing and doing drills with a lot of pretty new players these days, 500-something tier guys, and I noticed two faults in my game:

As the rally goes on, I get more and more upright. Against better players I only get up once the rally starts going on, but the first few balls, I'm low. Then I always start getting up no matter who I play. Vs worse players, this happens basically after serve or serve return.

If I think I'm in position, I will basically stop moving. This is really not good if I'm actually not in position.

I should have some kind of movement in there because it'd force me to be on my toes and I'd probably pick up more cues to adjust my position because I'd be more focused on moving. I think this has a lot to do with my getting up.

Is it effective to consciously force myself to be lower when I start going back? As in, actually correct myself once I catch myself doing it. I've been doing it a bit in the hope that eventually I will just automatically go low because it's less effort.

 

[Shuki]

I've been playing and doing drills with a lot of pretty new players these days, 500-something tier guys, and I noticed two faults in my game:

As the rally goes on, I get more and more upright. Against better players I only get up once the rally starts going on, but the first few balls, I'm low. Then I always start getting up no matter who I play. Vs worse players, this happens basically after serve or serve return.

If I think I'm in position, I will basically stop moving. This is really not good if I'm actually not in position.

I should have some kind of movement in there because it'd force me to be on my toes and I'd probably pick up more cues to adjust my position because I'd be more focused on moving. I think this has a lot to do with my getting up.

Is it effective to consciously force myself to be lower when I start going back? As in, actually correct myself once I catch myself doing it. I've been doing it a bit in the hope that eventually I will just automatically go low because it's less effort.

no need to be low if you're backing off the table. unless you're so far back the ball is dropping in front of you.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

So my temp decided he wanted to switch coaches.

Excellent! Congratulations Sir!

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Last night, put on a long pips ox to my backside ... didn't intend to use it. Just wanted to get used to the feel of the blade with it on and looking to just hit and not play matches.

1) I hit with B. first. Been trying to just block for him to get his FH loop. He is inconsistent, stroke/form is not perfect, but when he makes them it's a lot of sidespin... challenging for me to block. After ~30 mins, felt a little lethargic and took a break.

LP OX - so far so good.

2) Hit with L next. Not sure of his level, guessing it's 1800-1900. He hadn't come for awhile.

A few months ago shortly after i joined my new club in April 2016, on a rainy night with the club empty, I hit with L for 2.5 hrs or 3 hrs non-stop. My first great session since my unretirement June 2015. His fundamentals are way stronger than mine. Played a match with him sometime after that session and i either lost 3-0 or 3-1. He's a lefty SH and I couldn't read his serves, although my serve receive game in general is 500 to begin with LOL.

He had already hit/played for a long time last night, but just wanted to hit for 15 mins more before he called it a night. Coincidentally the last time i had that great training session with him, I was getting used a new racket, the Avalox P700. Last night, I explained to him I was getting used to a new blade again LOL

LP OX - again so far so good.

3) Hit with M2 next for 15 mins. I looped a little, but inconsistent. Amazon with the LP OX while looping for me felt ok.

Agree with many that have tried the blade that it's too light, but after trying out a temp inverted and short pips, the blade was TOO heavy for me. Won't lie, with the added weight, the blocks seemed better, the loops seemed better, but the reality is after 2-3 hrs playing with the added weight, my hand hurt. I have been doing grip exercises and forearm exercises to stave off Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. So for now, will just play with the LP OX on the backside. Will revisit SP in the future to see if my hand/grip has gotten stronger.

4) Hit with a gentleman who hadn't played in 10 yrs or so. I have seen him at the club regularly ... generally he works out in the weight area, then sits and watches the TT action. I blocked for him 1 or 2 weeks ago for 15 mins or so.

He finally got new rubbers on and testing them. He also wears a back brace, so i think he's recovering from an injury. We hit for ~1 hr or 90 mins. I know he's getting back into TT, so I only blocked. Despite the 10 yrs layoff, he still got 'it'. He felt his touch and timing was off, and he's adjusting to the new rubbers, but overall he still got his strokes.

He started off with his FH, then BH and then FH loops. I can imagine he would be way more 'deadly' when his back brace comes off. I BH blocked, punched and FH blocked. The Amazon with LP OX was fine for me. I thanked him for the practice session. I asked if he used to have a rating and he said he was ~1900. After hitting with him, i believe 1900 is accurate.

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Our club's weightlifting area is getting renovated starting today and lasting 2 weeks. Not sure how that would affect the TT area. Last time the club renovated the stationary bikes area, they put all the bikes in one area where there was a TT table, so the club was one less table and club was jammed with members.

Mrs OSPH has to go out tonight. I'm going to try to get to the club early and hit for 1 hr max and go home and cook dinner for the kids.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSP, I remember you tried to smash my loops. What was your success rate?

OUCH! I know it was not high percentage, but then again, I think many of your loops were the fast low sidespin kind. I have to rewatch our match - i really don't recall any slow topspin loops from you.

But that one or two felt SOOOOO GOOOOD.

LOL - i have to rewatch the match. I do recall i had 1 or 2 good punches down the line

i will note that i will forever remember YOUR reactions:

1. you slammed the table with your hand, then rolled up the sleeve to flex your bicep ... LOL
2. NL smoked a loop by me at superspeed ... you waved bye-bye to it ... LOL

Here is me on the other end of it - it is not as uncommon as you think, though it is not easy to deliberately loop a ball that high and spinny.

youtu.be/f5X0ZJaIrQM?t=382

Thank you! I will work on it. I've noticed at times if the ball is short and i'm unsure if i can loop or not but somehow i've mentally committed to looping it, i will slow topspin loop ... most likely fearing the short ball and hurting my hand and ruining the rubber and racket lol

Also if i read the ball as heavy backspin, i would slow topspin loop it.

Other than those 2 situations, I will try to loop drive or loop kill balls i want to loop.

Have to train the slow topspin loop mindfully and actively. Monday night with the intent of slow topspin looping, I watched the video and see i only attempted a few, and only one made it, hit the net, and my partner passively blocked it and it flew off. But for the most part, i attempted way too many loop drives/kills vs the slow topspin given my focus on training the slow topspin loop.

 

[Der_Echte]

Yup, real easy to remember trouble maker Williams cheers.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Oh Boogar, nice and smooth reverse pendulum serves! Love them!

 

[JeffM]

While I was browsing the table tennis websites of regions in Australia, I realised they use a rating system called "rating central". How does that correlate with the rating USATT?

 

[Der_Echte]

One should add several hundred points to RC rating to get approx. USATT rating, but the higher it goes up near pro level, the less you need to add.

 

[Der_Echte]

OSPH, learning judgment of when to go for a loopkill is tough, but for starters, just learn to spin the first at 60-70 percent power, then you can be ready to go Rambo on the next ball. You do that enough and get consistent, it will give you new weapons and ways to setup points.

 

[NextLevel]

While I was browsing the table tennis websites of regions in Australia, I realised they use a rating system called "rating central". How does that correlate with the rating USATT?

Conversion depends on a lot of factors and is never straightforward. What the default rating in your country is plays a role, as well as how often players in your country play other well rated Ratings Central players.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSPH, learning judgment of when to go for a loopkill is tough, but for starters, just learn to spin the first at 60-70 percent power, then you can be ready to go Rambo on the next ball. You do that enough and get consistent, it will give you new weapons and ways to setup points.

I hear ya Der, thank you!

 

[NextLevel]

BTW, I hit a roller with my backhand on Tuesday. First time ever. Of course, no camera to record it. Great....

 

[JeffM]

Although 2 weeks ago I said that I won't be playing as much, table tennis is too good and dropping it immediately makes me crave for it. So I got myself to be a substitute for another pennant match next week, and hopefully that is it. But to play in that, I don't want to lose all my matches, so I had to practice a bit. Last Saturday when I play for the first time in 10 days, I played poorly, so I knew that I need to play a bit more frequently to get my touch back for next week's matches.

So today's club session:
I went in late as I had clinics. When I first got there, my usual partners were already playing, and there was no one to hit with me, so I just killed some time trying to serve, but for me, practicing serves without any hitting never goes well as I don't have the touch.

Eventually I got to play with some people, but they wanted to play doubles.. Well not really any choice for me so I complied. The bad thing is that they have all been hitting for the last 40 min, and I just got there, and then in the 'warm up', they just keep doing 'all or nothing' shots... so all I could do is do an occasional short push, don't really like that at all. For the doubles, I think we still won 3-2.

After that, I notice another one of my friend just arrived, so I quickly go and have a hit with him, to practice the normal warm up strokes. Forehands seem ok, even though rusty, can still put the ball on the table.. The RPB however required alot more touch and the lack of practice really affects my strength of it. Anyway, after some warm up, I played a match with him. He is also a penholder with RPB, but he uses his traditional block much more often. I didn't have as good footwork as before, so I relied more on my RPB when balls come to my bh side unless I was prepared to do a pivot to hit with my fh. I took the first set, but then lost the following 2 sets 11-9, then came back to win 2 more sets to make it 3-2. While I wasn't really happy with my play, (as I missed alot of the high balls when he lobs, due to lack of 'feel'), I knew that this is what I needed to prepare myself for next week's matches, to get me back into the matches mood, where balls don't come where you want them to. I did quite a few rpb loop off backspins, and that felt good. But my normal fast RPB on topspins is still nowhere near my optimal form.

Second singles: After that, I hit with my other friend, who sometimes come to my pennant matches and act as a coach for me. While he is not qualified or trained to be a coach, having someone to give you a few hints here and there is better than nothing and may even have a placebo effect. Hes a SH. So we played a match as well. He played really well in the first 2 sets, winning them easily with 11-6 and 11-5. Then I won the next three sets to make a comeback of 3-2. My serves today were not good, as I didn't get the effect I wanted. I will practice more on Saturday.

After that, I am exhausted.
Now it is time to watch the full match of Xu Xin vs Ma Long.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

So I got myself to be a substitute for another pennant match next week,

Good luck Si-hing and have fun!

He is also a penholder with RPB, but he uses his traditional block much more often.

This is interesting for me... a technical question, not sure if you know now but can find out sooner or later.

Does your friend use the modern PH grip, the traditional grip of curled fingers or mixes the 2 as needed? I tried to use the modern PH grip while doing my traditional BH blocks and punches. They were difficult to do.

My friend 42andbackpains mentioned that Hong Kong's Wong Chun Ting uses a traditional grip (or close enough) ... I have not checked on it yet, and for now I only watched one highlight of him. I've tried the traditional grip and tried RPB block/punch/loop and it was also difficult.

Thank you and good luck in your upcoming pennant match!

 

[JeffM]

Good luck Si-hing and have fun!



This is interesting for me... a technical question, not sure if you know now but can find out sooner or later.

Does your friend use the modern PH grip, the traditional grip of curled fingers or mixes the 2 as needed? I tried to use the modern PH grip while doing my traditional BH blocks and punches. They were difficult to do.

My friend 42andbackpains mentioned that Hong Kong's Wong Chun Ting uses a traditional grip (or close enough) ... I have not checked on it yet, and for now I only watched one highlight of him. I've tried the traditional grip and tried RPB block/punch/loop and it was also difficult.

Thank you and good luck in your upcoming pennant match!

Thanks OSP, and no worries!
Can you clarify what is meant by the modern PH grip?
The way he does it, is more like how Xu Xin hold the bat, the fingers kind of spread out straight.
Wong Chun Ting's grip is kind of like Xu Xin, fingers spread out, but instead of having the fingers right in the middle of the bat, he puts them lower, so there is still more room in the middle for ball contact.

Yeah I don't think there is a grip that will make RPB suddenly easy to use when you just experiment with it. From the beginning, I learned the traditional grip first, and then I learned RPB. Then 2 years ago, I tried to change my grip to fingers straighten out. I felt more comfortable doing forehand, but my RPB suffered alot, as I find having the fingers spread out does not help relax the wrist, and that is important when serving as well as doing normal strokes. Then I went back to the traditional grip, and RPB was alright again. As time passes, I have learned to adjust my forehand feels good with the traditional grip as well.

I think if you are thinking of experimenting with grips, you either try it once and don't like it and stop, or you keep doing it for a while, and see if your fingers adapt to it. Because when you change something, something else will also be changed and you will need to adapt to it to make the old things work again.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Thank you JeffM,

By modern PH grip, i mean the fingers straighten out or mostly straight. By traditional PH grip,i mean the fingers are curled and generally only the middle finger touches the blade.

If i change grip, my serves as well as traditional ph punch/block will suffer tremendously. I've tried the modern grip and serves I may be able to get used to, FH too, but i can't make it work for punch/block.

Ah, thanks for clarification on WCT's grip.

So i'm wondering if your friend when doing the traditional block uses modern grip or traditional grip.

 

[JeffM]

Thank you JeffM,

So i'm wondering if your friend when doing the traditional block uses modern grip or traditional grip.

When doing the traditional block, he still have the fingers straightened out, but only the middle finger is in contact with the back. Thanks for asking the question, I actually didn't think about this before.

 

[NextLevel]

OUCH! I know it was not high percentage, but then again, I think many of your loops were the fast low sidespin kind. I have to rewatch our match - i really don't recall any slow topspin loops from you.

...

Thank you! I will work on it. I've noticed at times if the ball is short and i'm unsure if i can loop or not but somehow i've mentally committed to looping it, i will slow topspin loop ... most likely fearing the short ball and hurting my hand and ruining the rubber and racket lol

Also if i read the ball as heavy backspin, i would slow topspin loop it.

Other than those 2 situations, I will try to loop drive or loop kill balls i want to loop?

Slow is a relative term. The main thing is that your emphasis is on spin, not pace. If I just roll a serve, sometimes, I am trying to put more into the spin than the pace. It might not be super slow, but it is not a power loop. The contact is more thin brush than thick brush or drive. Therefore, the way the ball hits your rubber usually means that you have to be at a higher point on the ball or avoid the spin more than you would if I had hit it harder or put less spin on it. It's a similar trick to being able to serve heavy spin without making it look like you are serving heavy spin.

The thing is that trying to make the ball go as fast as possible without getting used to spin contact is going to limit your options in the long term. I like to tell my students that whatever the limitations of my game, I like to think of myself as a ball bender and that I can put the ball where I want to and when I want to. That said, there can be good reasons not to play like this. But I prefer to loop and know that my opponent can still block my ball off the table than to loop hard and then have to reloop because my opponent is making easy blocks. But of course, everything according to customer. And the main point is that it is not about the speed per se, but about the dominance of the spin effect over the speed effect. Slow is just a way of measuring this - fast swing + slow speed = high spin. Sometimes, you can loop a high ball this way to a blocker if you know he likes to block with open angles as the spin will mess him up for than a fast smash, For some people it is the opposite.

 

[Boogar]

Hey guys how are you all?

Today i played the University tournament. I got second place overall. Only lost to a much higher rated player, even tho i played the game of my life! We had a lot of spectators and i pulled out my best double winged loops! I even hit back an impossible smash with a pirouette hit around the net! everyone cheered. I won the first game in the finals and lost the next three closely contested! Bummer i had no camera there.

 

[ttpshot]

Went to TT tournament in Fujioka city to watch my daughter play yesterday.
I found open tournaments in Japan interesting as the entry numbers were: 8 mens, 4 womens, 30 odd for over ages(O30, O40 etc), 90 hopes boys/girls, 300 cadets and 200 juniors. It reflects the age pyramid for the registered players in Japan, I like the fact there's a good turn out for a small city's open tournament but I wish more adults play TT like other countries.