Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[OldschoolPenholder]

Awesum, but not nearly as awesum as my last baked bread turned out. Your owner of the safe house #4 is gunna like the bread if I ever make it up to NYC soon.

Mrs OSPH was mighty peeved when i left to go join you all at 10:30 pm got home like 1:30 or 2am last time. And then only to go back out Sunday at 6pm or so and get home ~9pm. LOL

Soooo .... looking forward to the cake LOL

 

[Der_Echte]

The issue of noise is awareness, tolerance and suddeness/unexpectedness.

The drone at SPiN is essentially constant/predictable/tolerable.

In a small place like Korea, I had no problems with people in my court or getting close to it, I knew where they were and knew what they were about to do.

Suddenly in USA with all this room, we still do not allocate enough room and when someone goes into the court, you didn't know they were coming, was a surprise, or otherwise was disturbing. Ditto for sudden loud noises, they are out of place and make you stop, often in the middle of a stroke. Some halls have a really loud floor, so a ball bouncing on teh floor coming towards you at 4 meters can sound like it is right behind you.

I get where Carl is coming from.

OSPH, Counterlooping from distance with extreme power is not what your bat is made for, but the feel and MP-P will allow you to consistently counterloop from 5-7 feet back all day long every time if you get the timing and impact right. Ming was right, it doesn't perform like powerhouse away from table to finish, that isn't what you do, that is why I selected that blade and rubber, it suits your game very well.

I would think with another month of decent bio-mechanics, you will enjoy your arm/wrist a lot more, your bat is balanced and solid, the handle and throat are already solid, I tried taking apart one.

 

[Der_Echte]

Mrs OSPH was mighty peeved when i left to go join you all at 10:30 pm got home like 1:30 or 2am last time. And then only to go back out Sunday at 6pm or so and get home ~9pm. LOL

Soooo .... looking forward to the cake LOL

On the surface, she would be expected to be upset. Underneath, she is very certain to have the judgment to know you came back smelling like a GYM Sweat Session, not a Heavy Beer Drinking Session, so she has to deep down love you for that. Many males our age are animal all-out in the beerz and wives do not like that for sure.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Last night

Saw K playing Mark Berg (NL has posted a one of his matches vs MB before) when i got to the club, immediatedly i called next and went to change.

Came back and a little surprised MB lost. He seems to have a tougher time with mostly defensive players like K and another member, T. Have not seen MB in some time. We both used to play in the same club in the 1980's - NYC Chinatown firehouse. After 30+ years, we recognized each other back in April when i joined my current club. I remembered him for his loud self-talk when he loses a point. Strangely he remembered me from my college chess geek days... i was at a Pan-Am Intercollegiate tournament and he remembered me from that LOL

So every time i have a chance, i try to play MB. Love chatting with him, and it's fun to play him. He is a lefty SH, has excellent ball control, will move partners side to side. Has anti on his BH. Have not taken a match from him yet, after joining this club, i've played him maybe 3 or 4x only. Each time were close games but generally 3-0 losses, and only one match i lost 3-2. He told me that match scared him and almost gave him a heart attack. Lots of fun playing him!

But back to my match with K... although my gameplan is what it is indefinitely, lately i've got so much in my head and every thing is a conscious effort. Weds night, mixed in my regular game. So for last night, I decided to mix in my regular game also and just to be on autopilot and have a little fun. K knew i just got to the club, knows i like a longer warmup, but there were a few members waiting to play next. So after 5 mins warmup, reluctantly started our match.

I WAS ON FIRE!! First time in a loooong time. I lost at 9, but i lost points not from his winners, but from my inconsistent shots - missed easy shots that within the same match were shots i made. Despite the loss, i was pretty happy with the first game. Neglected to video the first game sadly, there were many highlight worthy moments

But here is a brief video of highlights of games 2-4 ... FTR -9, 10, -8, -5 (i think games the scores of #3-4 were that, or something similar) ... for TTDers who haven't watched videos of me before, I'm the ugly mug in black.

Sat down, waited my turn, played MB ... although i have video, didn't edit yet. Many of my wide serves to his FH (he's a lefty) were returned to my BH and either i guided/blocked it down the line to his BH or i punched it. Sadly i was maybe 60/40 with this tactic. MB won 3 straight. First game was close, IIRC, lost at 8, 2nd think i lost at 5 and 3rd lost at 6th. As MB didn't come to the club in some time, forgot what other tactics worked for me vs him. Kind of figured him out a bit late sadly. But regardless we both have fun playing and chatting with each other. For a 64 yr old, he still got game.

Sat down again and waited. Played K for a 2nd time, this match lost 3 straight. Have video, didn't edit, but i recall i was tired and didn't have highlight worthy shots.

Called it a night, but had fun that first game of the first match with K as well as had fun playing/chatting with MB.

EDIT: my 2nd match vs K, a member pulled up a chair next to the chair next to the column ... hampered my pivot for 3rd ball attack ... that was a slight factor, but overall, was tired already.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

On the surface, she would be expected to be upset. Underneath, she is very certain to have the judgment to know you came back smelling like a GYM Sweat Session, not a Heavy Beer Drinking Session, so she has to deep down love you for that. Many males our age are animal all-out in the beerz and wives do not like that for sure.

haha, great point and yeah, i'm straight and narrow... i don't drink, i tell here where i'm going and don't lie about it.

 

[Archosaurus]

Played with some newbies today. Let them use my blade and gave some tips: we played 3 - 3.5 hours or so. They improved a bit.

Personally I am proud that I could consistently reset well with a hop after my serve and after my opener, and I was more decisive in moving against balls to my middle.

Footwork quality is still the exact same, but my habits are getting a little better. Seeing Boogar move so well gave me hope in myself being able to train myself as well.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSPH, Counterlooping from distance with extreme power is not what your bat is made for, but the feel and MP-P will allow you to consistently counterloop from 5-7 feet back all day long every time if you get the timing and impact right. Ming was right, it doesn't perform like powerhouse away from table to finish, that isn't what you do, that is why I selected that blade and rubber, it suits your game very well.

I would think with another month of decent bio-mechanics, you will enjoy your arm/wrist a lot more, your bat is balanced and solid, the handle and throat are already solid, I tried taking apart one.

I know me, i will need way more than another month LOL And I cannot thank you enough ... THANK YOU!

And PSSSST Der, don't let Carl know, i was trying to jedi mind trick him into giving me a spot of 9 points

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Played with some newbies today. Let them use my blade and gave some tips: we played 3 - 3.5 hours or so. They improved a bit.

Personally I am proud that I could consistently reset well with a hop after my serve and after my opener, and I was more decisive in moving against balls to my middle.

Footwork quality is still the exact same, but my habits are getting a little better. Seeing Boogar move so well gave me hope in myself being able to train myself as well.

Watch videos for inspiration, video yourself to spot where you need improvement as well as see where you performed well.

Keep at it Arch!

 

[Archosaurus]

@OldSchoolPenholder

I used to not really understand what I was doing right or wrong in my footwork. Not too long ago.

Since then I've done a ton of footwork exercises and drills, and it's starting to make some sense. I used to just chase the ball basically, or setup very rudimentary plays, but I didn't really have a reset or "small footwork" at all.

Now I'm at least trying to purposely move to the ball and it doesn't feel so weird because I know better where I need to be and why I move there. I'm also lower and more on my toes and lighter on my feet, which I can feel, so I'm a little bit better technically even if the footwork isn't much better. I really felt like I was anchored to the ground or weighed more than I did for most of my TT playing time.

I know that at least my backhand footwork is better because I used to have this really bad habit of reaching for the ball when I get a wide backhand ball. Of course I nearly always missed those even if they were easy to hit. I knew I was doing it and beat myself on the head every time I did it but it wasn't so simple to get to fixing.

Now my backhand technique is basically the exact same, but I move to the ball more and hit it more in a consistent spot. My backhands are landing more and I can play my backhand with more confidence. I still lean too much, but it's better. Before, I used to always hit the backhand too far away, or too close, or too left, or too right etc. and none of them landed how I wanted.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Since then I've done a ton of footwork exercises and drills, and it's starting to make some sense.

KEEP AT IT!

I really felt like I was anchored to the ground or weighed more than I did for most of my TT playing time.

Not sure if this will help you, but I jump rope and visualize myself as a boxer jumping rope. Although I'm old, slow and heavy, jumping rope helped my footwork from being anchored to at least be a bit more mobile in my game.

 

[Archosaurus]

@OldSchoolPenholder

Yeah, I get what you mean. I do small hops between serves like you'd do when jumping rope and try to capture that feeling during the point. I've made it a habit to also hop in place, not off the ground but on the balls of my feet, between shots and when I receive serve. I find it easier to get moving, if you're already moving!

 

[NextLevel]

Last night

Saw K playing Mark Berg (NL has posted a one of his matches vs MB before) when i got to the club, immediatedly i called next and went to change.

Came back and a little surprised MB lost. He seems to have a tougher time with mostly defensive players like K and another member, T. Have not seen MB in some time. We both used to play in the same club in the 1980's - NYC Chinatown firehouse. After 30+ years, we recognized each other back in April when i joined my current club. I remembered him for his loud self-talk when he loses a point. Strangely he remembered me from my college chess geek days... i was at a Pan-Am Intercollegiate tournament and he remembered me from that LOL

So every time i have a chance, i try to play MB. Love chatting with him, and it's fun to play him. He is a lefty SH, has excellent ball control, will move partners side to side. Has anti on his BH. Have not taken a match from him yet, after joining this club, i've played him maybe 3 or 4x only. Each time were close games but generally 3-0 losses, and only one match i lost 3-2. He told me that match scared him and almost gave him a heart attack. Lots of fun playing him!

But back to my match with K... although my gameplan is what it is indefinitely, lately i've got so much in my head and every thing is a conscious effort. Weds night, mixed in my regular game. So for last night, I decided to mix in my regular game also and just to be on autopilot and have a little fun. K knew i just got to the club, knows i like a longer warmup, but there were a few members waiting to play next. So after 5 mins warmup, reluctantly started our match.

I WAS ON FIRE!! First time in a loooong time. I lost at 9, but i lost points not from his winners, but from my inconsistent shots - missed easy shots that within the same match were shots i made. Despite the loss, i was pretty happy with the first game. Neglected to video the first game sadly, there were many highlight worthy moments

But here is a brief video of highlights of games 2-4 ... FTR -9, 10, -8, -5 (i think games the scores of #3-4 were that, or something similar) ... for TTDers who haven't watched videos of me before, I'm the ugly mug in black.


Sat down, waited my turn, played MB ... although i have video, didn't edit yet. Many of my wide serves to his FH (he's a lefty) were returned to my BH and either i guided/blocked it down the line to his BH or i punched it. Sadly i was maybe 60/40 with this tactic. MB won 3 straight. First game was close, IIRC, lost at 8, 2nd think i lost at 5 and 3rd lost at 6th. As MB didn't come to the club in some time, forgot what other tactics worked for me vs him. Kind of figured him out a bit late sadly. But regardless we both have fun playing and chatting with each other. For a 64 yr old, he still got game.

Sat down again and waited. Played K for a 2nd time, this match lost 3 straight. Have video, didn't edit, but i recall i was tired and didn't have highlight worthy shots.

Called it a night, but had fun that first game of the first match with K as well as had fun playing/chatting with MB.

EDIT: my 2nd match vs K, a member pulled up a chair next to the chair next to the column ... hampered my pivot for 3rd ball attack ... that was a slight factor, but overall, was tired already.

There is still room to go with practice, but I think you can see that your serve control has improved significantly. I saw one serve with extreme break and I saw the last one which was short topspin that your opponent popped up into your smash. With penhold, it is much easier to hide the wrist action than with shakehand so I can't always tell whether you are doing it, but one great and good sign is that your serve motion is often stopping sharply at the ball rather than going far past it and that will make it more deceptive and whippy. The backswing is large, but it is quite possible to use a large backswing as long as you whip into the ball sharply and stop like you are doing. IF you can at least add the short topspin consistently into your repertoire, you will get easy third ball opportunities from players who are not used to attacking topspin over the table especially if it is slow.

I played Mark Berg quite a few times coming up. Apart from our first match and last match, the rest were pretty competitive up to when I broke 1800 and he was actually one of my favorite opponents because he didn't topspin or have spinny serves and I could always rally with my flat hit game, win or lose. A point came when my backhand topspin and overall backhand versatility just became too severe for his basic strategy and the last match we played wasn't really interesting. Would probably be interesting to play him again to see if the differences between us are reflected in our current ratings.

 

[Archosaurus]

OSPH is looking damn good based on that video. Somehow he looks more smooth and in control with his body movements.

I guess he's getting it back, eh.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

There is still room to go with practice, but I think you can see that your serve control has improved significantly. I saw one serve with extreme break and I saw the last one which was short topspin that your opponent popped up into your smash. With penhold, it is much easier to hide the wrist action than with shakehand so I can't always tell whether you are doing it, but one great and good sign is that your serve motion is often stopping sharply at the ball rather than going far past it and that will make it more deceptive and whippy.

Thank you for feedback! I watch the vids of myself and on the serves I am consciously trying the short pendulum motion (right elbow up, almost no backswing at all, as if the broom stick was there a la Brett Clark) I still have some of that backswing and trying to stop short after contact instead of following through.

Then watching my regular serve, i see i have muscle memory, i have the same motions with my left and right hands/arms when starting the serve and it's amazing to watch the video to know that the muscle memory is there, i was on autopilot, all subconscious) ... i didn't realize if my practice has helped or not, but thank you for pointing it out. I'm a sloooow learner, often old man memory is a factor and also have so much on my mind that i'm working on that i forget this and that at times. But thank you! I will keep at it. Next week, depending on partner, i may have dedicated practice or i may play matches and will play one game with my focus and then other games of the match have it integrated with my regular game. I will say I'm consciously serving short top/sidetop to varying spots now. Have not worked on nospin yet though.

The backswing is large, but it is quite possible to use a large backswing as long as you whip into the ball sharply and stop like you are doing. IF you can at least add the short topspin consistently into your repertoire, you will get easy third ball opportunities from players who are not used to attacking topspin over the table especially if it is slow.

I am trying to keep the backswing minimal... hopefully i can get video of me consciously doing this to really check myself.

I played Mark Berg quite a few times coming up. Apart from our first match and last match, the rest were pretty competitive up to when I broke 1800 and he was actually one of my favorite opponents because he didn't topspin or have spinny serves and I could always rally with my flat hit game, win or lose. A point came when my backhand topspin and overall backhand versatility just became too severe for his basic strategy and the last match we played wasn't really interesting. Would probably be interesting to play him again to see if the differences between us are reflected in our current ratings.

IIRC, he mentioned this weekend he will be playing in the Westfield NJ tournament. I can see how defensive players can give him some trouble, and am surprised i have close games with him. A few months ago, watched him give a ~1800-1900 young kid/SH double winged-power looper fits and winning the match. Perhaps it was the kid's first time playing MB or either the anti and/or MB is a lefty were factors for the kid.

But my He Zhi Men/Ho Chi Man tactics seem to work well against him...serve wide to his FH and block/punch down the line to his BH. Late in the match, I discovered the short topspin worked well against him also. Have to keep that in mind for the next time.

Thank you again, will keep at it!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSPH is looking damn good based on that video. Somehow he looks more smooth and in control with his body movements.

I guess he's getting it back, eh.

Thank you Arch, but actually no, those were highlights of my winners, although i included one loser which i was controlling the ball but missed my 2nd smash cos of the slight sidespin lob being misjudged.

The many losers I had were pathetic misses at the same shots you see my winners were ... very inconsistent and slightly frustrating. I get a sense my partners know that they just have to play steady and let me beat myself. They probably know that if my shots made it, it would be a challenging match.

So yeah, I'm not delusional. K keeps asking me, "How do you know you improved?" I don't answer him, but our matches shows him that we both know the answer. When my shots land consistently instead of 40/60 - 50/50.

 

[Archosaurus]

OSPH, what I mean is that you look like you're on track to landing shots consistently.

To land shots consistently, one needs to have a consistent and relaxed technique first, no?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@OldSchoolPenholder

I used to not really understand what I was doing right or wrong in my footwork. Not too long ago.

Since then I've done a ton of footwork exercises and drills, and it's starting to make some sense. I used to just chase the ball basically, or setup very rudimentary plays, but I didn't really have a reset or "small footwork" at all.

Now I'm at least trying to purposely move to the ball and it doesn't feel so weird because I know better where I need to be and why I move there. I'm also lower and more on my toes and lighter on my feet, which I can feel, so I'm a little bit better technically even if the footwork isn't much better. I really felt like I was anchored to the ground or weighed more than I did for most of my TT playing time.

I know that at least my backhand footwork is better because I used to have this really bad habit of reaching for the ball when I get a wide backhand ball. Of course I nearly always missed those even if they were easy to hit. I knew I was doing it and beat myself on the head every time I did it but it wasn't so simple to get to fixing.

Now my backhand technique is basically the exact same, but I move to the ball more and hit it more in a consistent spot. My backhands are landing more and I can play my backhand with more confidence. I still lean too much, but it's better. Before, I used to always hit the backhand too far away, or too close, or too left, or too right etc. and none of them landed how I wanted.

Glad your training is getting you on track. I really do look forward to seeing the footage. [emoji2].


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Archosaurus]

Thanks, Carl. I think I'm on a pretty good road now, nailing down the basics.

I've been playing with the newbies on some evenings lately, so I could probably prop up the phone again and film from the same angle, or if we have company, make one hold it up. I don't think they would mind, if only I'm in frame. That way I could get some footage from in front and at a nicer angle.

However I really don't want to film when there's people in the halls. Shouldn't be a problem: we play in the later hours and there's no one there.

I also scavenged an old phone with a better camera, so that's a plus.

I think playing with the best player from the group of newbies would give better footage than the opponents I've been playing against. I'm not afraid to give him proper shots because he can return them and we can rally. He wanted to play with my setup, and my terms were that if he bashes my bat, I will bash him accordingly. I got a bit more pace and spin at me than usual from him, and I had a slower premade setup, so it made for some good extended rallies.

I'm thinking that maybe I should buy an even slower blade for more control, even though I can play with ALL+/OFF- fine. I think I could trade some speed for some control and go back to the Allround Evo later once my basics are solid. Does this make any sense or should I just stick with my current setup?

 

[NextLevel]

I am trying to keep the backswing minimal... hopefully i can get video of me consciously doing this to really check myself.

The best way to do this is to go back to your basic backspin serve and work on the timing of your toss and your backswing. Toss the ball up and let it come on the way down before swinging into it. To make your brain see that this is possible, just toss the ball up and leave the racket there under the ball on the way down - that is, bounce the ball on your racket and catch it. After doing that for a few minutes (try to do it where you intend to hit the ball when you serve), then toss the ball over the point where you intend to hit it but do a short back and forth motion to hit the ball. Then step by step build this into a full serve by making the backswing larger but only starting when the ball is on the way down.

 

[Der_Echte]

I like NL's approach to getting this done with small steps of progression. It is so hard to try to do everything at once, possible, but I believe more difficult and discouraging.