Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

first set of my game last Sunday (i gave more details in a previous post)

 

[Suga D]

TT and TTDaily make the real things I have to deal with in my everyday life go better. And if I really paid attention to this, based my REAL LIFE, I would probably never come on here. But you have to have some things that make you happy.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Ahhh, shweeeet!
Can i nominate this for Quote of the year?

 

[Archosaurus]

Didn't play too much today, had to leave early to get stuff done.

Perhaps not as a surprise, I couldn't produce my new forehand form in games and reverted to my old form. Big surprise.

However I did implement more lateral movement in my pivots so that I am more balanced and can do a better stroke.

Initially I missed some, but after a short warmup and convincing myself mentally that I must land these shots with quality, and I will if I just relax and let my form take care of itself, I started hitting a few good forehands.

A matchup I usually have trouble playing proper loops against, the penholder, was an easy 11-4 win due to back/top short serve variation and pivots. I backed up a little from the table on every shot and his punches were more manageable. I had confidence in my backhand, and I could loop against his punch. Some shots I had to block, and of course I lost some points, but on most points I could push the advantage and get the loops in.

The two most notable happenings was at 9 - 4 when I got a deep long push to my backhand off my serve, stepped back a little, pivoted and hit a forehand hook down the line. It went under his racket.

The second was at 10 - 4, when I received a long serve to my backhand with a fast backhand loop, got a block back, then pivoted on the block and faded it right on his backhand corner to win the game.

I'm satisfied that I could move as well as I did, and I didn't need a very long warmup to play well. However I can still really improve my form. This is enough for today though.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Last night, not many members showed up, i practiced with K for 90 mins straight... mostly serves, sometimes serve and 3rd ball ... we both felt it was a good practice.

70% short pendulum motion ... i find for me to do this decently i have to leave my right hand/arm/racket high up almost against my ribs ... i've found that if i do my normal pre-serve routine of bouncing the ball 2-3x against the ground, both my hands/arms' muscle memory will take over unconsciously and go into my long pendulum motion ...

30% long pendulum motion ... i may be close to a point where the long motion feels foreign LOL

Mostly downspin and sidedown ... mixed in some sidetop and tried rocket serves with the short pendulum ... IMO, not as good as my long serve motion rocket serves

I tried a few nospin serves, or what i thought was nospin ... i kind of let the ball roll off my racket after my pendulum motion stops ... K went to push it and popped it up a little and i smashed it. Very interesting! Need to work on this more.

3rd ball loop - still not consistent ... i see everyone else looping, i see old vids of me looping (prior to getting pointers) - all so smooth and easy lol ... my inner voice is telling me to do this, then do that, then do that next ... so i'm not grooved/subconsciously looping yet ... not flowing Need way more work.

Overall last night's session was good ... felt good just to train and not have to play matches.

Will miss TT tonight, going out with 2 buddies for dinner to catch up with each other.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

4:30 - 4:37 INTENSE!

5:57 - 6:01 / 6:32 - 6:37 - nice BH smashes from X Liu

 

[NextLevel]

first set of my game last Sunday (i gave more details in a previous post)

Too much of the match and your attitude was influenced by prior history. He is a structurally unsound player who uses athleticism instead of strategy to cover up his bad structure. His backspin attack is not a powerful stroke and he is serving mostly sidespin to mask this. You should mostly attack hard to where he is going to play a forehand and push/block to where he is going to play a backhand. The first game, you didn't let him get away with the weak pushes and because he has no backhand opener, he was floating the ball back to you hoping you would miss or pop up the ball. You blocked his openers well from the forehand side to your backhand but the down the line ones give you more trouble because the redirection is more difficult for you. But later, rather than opening to the forehand or middle, you just started pushing the ball back and eventually you popped up one for an easy kill.

If you sideswipe his serves more rather than giving him straight backspin push all the time, I think you will do better. Your wrist action on both sides, but especially your backhand and serves, needs some work.

 

[Archosaurus]

Why is he not attacking those pushes? Are they too heavy, or does he simply lack confidence in his backhand, or lacks a backhand entirely?

 

[NextLevel]

Why is he not attacking those pushes? Are they too heavy, or does he simply lack confidence in his backhand, or lacks a backhand entirely?

He lacks an opening backhand topspin. It is not as rare as you might think. Even some people who have openers lack the confidence to use them in matches, or cannot open safely with spin to get into a rally. I have played lefties with precisely this problem and this is how I play them - I push to the backhand most of the time and attack to the forehand most of the time, the reason being that they will mostly loop with their forehands and block with their backhands. I would have served short backspin/nospin into his backhand all day and open off the push with a chiquita or a loop, kind of like what Takkyu did on one point in the first game. The lefty's game is a bit old school so he lacks over the table strokes. Takkyu kinda has the same problem in this match or in his background training though he has worked on his backhand. It looks much better but the wrist action is not going to help his confidence. Other than my height, part of the reason I attack just about anywhere I find the ball if I am moving well is because I always generate racket head speed with the whip and loose wrist action. I have also learned to use many different contact points on the ball, so if spin is heavy, I know to avoid the main spin equator, not to accept that the backspin is heavy.

This is one of the best videos on the subject of the mechanics of the backhand. This is where Takkyu needs to get to if he wants a real backhand - unsheath the sword motion.

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

I remember my first experience flicking and backhand looping heavy backspin. Well, heavy by my standards.

I kept netting it over, and over, quite pathetically. I gave up for some time and just resorted to pushing, but I was determined to make it work.

Later I noticed that my wrist was not free and my stroke was too short, and I just let it go and eventually it started sticking. I had no problems opening on backspin with my backhand from then on.

It was very educational, and every time I have problems with my backhand, I think about that time.

Knowing this, I can't help but think that he simply hasn't practiced it for a few hours, which sounds crazy to me.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@NextLevel

I remember my first experience flicking and backhand looping heavy backspin. Well, heavy by my standards.

Ah, thank you Archo. I just got a good laugh. [emoji2]



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[Archosaurus]

Why's it funny, Carl?

I specifically stated it was my first experience, and that "heavy spin" is pretty relative in that context. It wasn't *that* heavy. However it was heavy enough for me to net without producing a good enough brush contact on it to overcome the spin. It was a great learning experience.

 

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel

I remember my first experience flicking and backhand looping heavy backspin. Well, heavy by my standards.

I kept netting it over, and over, quite pathetically. I gave up for some time and just resorted to pushing, but I was determined to make it work.

Later I noticed that my wrist was not free and my stroke was too short, and I just let it go and eventually it started sticking. I had no problems opening on backspin with my backhand from then on.

It was very educational, and every time I have problems with my backhand, I think about that time.

Knowing this, I can't help but think that he simply hasn't practiced it for a few hours, which sounds crazy to me.

I think ttmonster pointed out to you more explicitly that while things may look superficially similar and may lend themselves to the same language, the problems higher level players face should not be confused with those of lower level players if only because of the ball quality they are generating and playing against. Looping backspin with 100% confidence is really a 2 year cognitive miracle even when you have the technique as you have to learn to read the ball flight and depth and not something something you acquire over the course of a few hours of practice. But since you were probably practicing against under 1000 level backspin, you might have felt comfortable with your opener and also, remember that the level of opposition places a minimum level on the ball quality you need to produce to stay in the point. I can float an opener against a player U1000 but against a 2000 level player, I need to put enough spin or movement on the ball to at least make them hesitate as even if the ball is quality, if it is too slow, they can pivot on me. You can watch how other players treat my balls in matches and compare them to how Leshinsky, who has been over 2300, responds when he gets my topspin into his forehand. The approach and ball quality is night and day and is what makes me have to do more vs. LEshinsky or other 2300 players. They push my backspin into the net occasionally to, but they don't miss my forehand topspins, which is an indicator to me of the relative quality.

I hope I don't have to be making this point too often, Archo. It might be youth and inexperience, but until you decide you want to compete at a certain level, you will not appreciate it. Don't confuse hitting balls on the college table with the demands of trying to beat opponents at a higher level under pressure.

I have played 1600-1800 players who get literally frustrated when playing against me as they wonder if they know how to push when I literally serve the same backspin serve to them over and over again and they repeatedly put ball after ball into the net. These are people who will largely beat you without trying hard. My point in saying this is that until you start playing proper opponents, your technique will not be under the true demands that require you to improve it.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I have played 1600-1800 players who get literally frustrated when playing against me as they wonder if they know how to push when I literally serve the same backspin serve to them over and over again and they repeatedly put ball after ball into the net.

*raises hand sheepishly*

Although, i don't think i'm 1600-1800 ... LOL at me

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

Thanks, this is what I was trying to figure out.

I'm sure that as the spin level gets higher, everything gets more complicated in terms of reading the ball and actually getting bat on ball. Not just how much force needs to be applied to overcome it.


I will just need to play some really good players to get a grasp of it, I suppose.

 

[NextLevel]

*raises hand sheepishly*

Although, i don't think i'm 1600-1800 ... LOL at me

Not to make you the poster boy but yes, Archo can watch that match and see what I mean.

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel
@OldschoolPenholder

If I may ask, could one of you link said match? I don't know what match you're talking about.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Not to make you the poster boy but yes, Archo can watch that match and see what I mean.

Archo et al:

NL posted the playlist in the Der_Echte in NYC thread ... after the early Oct meetup.

This was my match with NL and also includes his gracious lessons afterwards ... i didn't play my 'regular' game although i would've lost regardless ... but to put into context, this match was played right after I played Der_Echte a match in which I only served down/sidedown looking for a 3rd ball controlled loop. I played with the same focus vs NL. That match with Der was right after we worked on a different table the same focus but just not in matchplay for ~30 mins or so. It was my first time using Nexy's Amazon CPen and also my first time using MX-P rubber.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Ah, thank you Archo. I just got a good laugh. [emoji2]

In a way it is entertaining, in a way it is reassuring to know that a leopard doesn't change his stripes and and Archosaurus will talk about when he learned to loop heavy backspin.

I guess I have just gotten used to the fact that this is how you are. So it made me laugh and shake my head that you are doing this.

Glad I will get to play tonight. Looking forward to looping anything I can.


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[Archosaurus]

Carl, you still haven't caught onto the fact that sometimes I exaggerate my bullshit to provoke a response.

If I would have talked about the time when I got more confident in my backhand opener, it'd have nothing to do with the subject and nothing to do with why the player I referred to earlier doesn't attack those pushes.

However I do think that if he just practiced it, he would eventually learn it. At the same time, I might be wrong, because I understand that you can't just pull out "drill techniques" and expect them to work in a real situation. It might take longer than I think to see any improvement.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

2 highlights of Der_Echte one should look for in the video posted above:

4:37-4:48 - Der smacks the table and flexes his bicep after my smash
6:20-6:25 - Der waves bye bye after NL smoked a supersonic loop past me

LOL at Der - table tennis is truly an entertainment sport when Der is around.