Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[UpSideDownCarl]

Today i went to the academy and played against few of high level players, i lost to all games, but somehow i felt like i played much better than those games against lower level and winning over them, i thought i will lose very bad like 11-0 or 11-2, but to my surprise i only lost one game badly with 11-4 but the rest i lost in such 11-9, 11-8, 12-10, 14-12,...etc, and in some i was in lead or reached 10 first, but somehow i lost easy point at the end.

I focused more in practicing at home and didn't play games against other since 2 weeks ago, so i will try to go out and play more, today games showed me if i really give it more try and practice more i may improve significantly, after all those high level strong players are playing there almost everyday, and sounds that i tried not give them easy points, but i miss mine so that they won, and good that i returned back to my offensive style after long long time in doing defensive one to learn, but as you said, attacking is the way to go further.

See if I can provide info that makes sense. Some of this is about the fact that winning isn't everything and does not always tell the whole story. Nor does when you think you are close.

So I am playing matches right now. Well, right now I am waiting for next. There are three of us. The first guy is a level and a half better than me. The second guy is 2-3 levels higher than the first guy.

So, last week I played the first guy and won my first match ever from him. This week I lost 3-0 in the both matches and in each game I got 7 or 8 but I am comfortable telling you that the games were not that close. He beat me like a drum. And a lot of the points I got were after being down 7-2 or something like that. So, he really beat me solidly and he usually can.

Now before the second guy showed up the first guy was talking about how he would love to legitimately win one game from the second guy. One game. Every time I play the second guy I get at least one, sometimes two games. Tonight is no different. I played him two matches. I got 1 game in the first match. Two games in the second match.

In the matches with the second guy I am often ahead by a few points and once I get to around 9 points he pretty much shuts me down. The games I win, I often get a point where I play above my level for a few shots once I have 10 points.

But when the first guy plays the second guy it is always 3-0. Always.

I am here to tell you that it is not that I play the second guy better than the first guy. It is not that I match up better. It is that he is enough better than me that he does not even have to try. Whereas, when the second guy plays the first guy, if he plays the way he plays against me, he will have a much harder match and may not win.

But the fact that you lost every game, even the games where you were up, tells me that these guys are better than you by more than you probably realize and, most likely, there are things going on that you don't quite understand. And if that is not the case, then you will eventually start to win matches from these guys.


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[Archosaurus]

I've slowly learned that the only thing that matters in gauging players against each other is long term results.

If you go 11 - 9 against someone for 50 matches, and never win, chances are they're much and far beyond your level and just taking it easy. I think after some time you would legitimately start to go more into a 50/50 win/loss.

The players who I've played who I consider much better than myself always took me to 11 - 7 or more, but my winning percentage was right somewhere around 20% after many, many games.

Likewise I usually take the people I play to 11 - 8 or more to conserve energy, usually from a point disadvantage because I'm somewhat bad under pressure and need to get used to it. The only reason they know I'm much better than them is because I can take them to less than 5 points if I want. The more stubborn ones still insist that they're very little away from being on my level.

Besides, anyone can take Ma Long to deuce in the fifth if he's nice enough.

 

[TareqPhoto]

See if I can provide info that makes sense. Some of this is about the fact that winning isn't everything and does not always tell the whole story. Nor does when you think you are close.

So I am playing matches right now. Well, right now I am waiting for next. There are three of us. The first guy is a level and a half better than me. The second guy is 2-3 levels higher than the first guy.

So, last week I played the first guy and won my first match ever from him. This week I lost 3-0 in the both matches and in each game I got 7 or 8 but I am comfortable telling you that the games were not that close. He beat me like a drum. And a lot of the points I got were after being down 7-2 or something like that. So, he really beat me solidly and he usually can.

Now before the second guy showed up the first guy was talking about how he would love to legitimately win one game from the second guy. One game. Every time I play the second guy I get at least one, sometimes two games. Tonight is no different. I played him two matches. I got 1 game in the first match. Two games in the second match.

In the matches with the second guy I am often ahead by a few points and once I get to around 9 points he pretty much shuts me down. The games I win, I often get a point where I play above my level for a few shots once I have 10 points.

But when the first guy plays the second guy it is always 3-0. Always.

I am here to tell you that it is not that I play the second guy better than the first guy. It is not that I match up better. It is that he is enough better than me that he does not even have to try. Whereas, when the second guy plays the first guy, if he plays the way he plays against me, he will have a much harder match and may not win.

But the fact that you lost every game, even the games where you were up, tells me that these guys are better than you by more than you probably realize and, most likely, there are things going on that you don't quite understand. And if that is not the case, then you will eventually start to win matches from these guys.


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Yes, but i know the concept, they beat me because they are DEFINITELY better than me no doubt, but i played with them as if i am just beginner so they didn't try to smash me, and i know i can't win or get any game from them if they play very serious, i know how they play against another top players, they even didn't play half of what they can, so your point is valid and i completely understand your point.

Actually, it was good games because it made me to at least remove the fear of playing them, i know if they play seriously i may not play against them again, but it is better i do play them time to time slowly, and in the main time i practice and train more on my mistakes, it could be my footworks, it could be my FH loop, even my chops, so once the robot is coming, and i will call my regular friend to train with him because he is good enough as me so he can give me many shots to train, in fact he also played against some of top players and he gave them hard times too even he lost, i have to go gradually, but my main plan is to start with a coach by next year, last and this year was only to get back to the TT after so long time stop and to try getting back some of my skills, but for further to reach or at least can fight against those players i have to practice at home and with a coach.

Last point, this year and last year i am trying only to play more to enjoy, the players in the academy are playing to win, or say 90% about winning and 10% about having fun, me is the opposite, i wasn't sad losing yesterday, but i played with one beginner player there too who i really didn't give him a chance but i wasn't proud, and i am sure he will be better than me if he started to have training and i am not, i saw him talking with the coach, meaning he is planning for training sessions.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Of course it is good to play matches against players who are better you. It is good to play matches with people of all levels. When a player is better than you and they play in a way where you can play your best it is extremely useful in helping you improve. But so is playing matches against players who are your actual level and same with playing matches against players who are lower level than you. You will learn different things from each scenario. It is, in fact, even good to play matches against players who are better than you when they use all kinds of strategy and deception to keep you from doing anything you think you normally can do.

Sometimes those matches where you feel like you are falling apart and just keep messing up and losing easy points with mistakes, can teach you a lot, particularly about your level and humility. A lot of the times, those things we think are just our messing up, are actually, us not being able to deal with a higher ball quality than we are normally used to, or a higher degree of randomness than usual, or someone picking up the pace and requiring us to reset faster by taking the ball right off the bounce on a push.

It is human to think that we mess up or that we did something well when we play racket sports. I can't tell you how many times I have played players who have no chance against me where they say, "I am just not playing well right now." And they don't see how the person on the other side of the table has A LOT to do with how they are playing.

In a racket sport like table tennis, what your opponent does has more to do with what you do and what YOU CAN do, than most people realize.

A good player sets himself up to win points, and pressures you in ways that cause you to mess up and lose points outright or they cause you to give the opponent easy opportunities. So, if you are up by 4 points at 10-6 and lose the game at 12-10 and you feel you made a lot of easy mistakes, it may be that the opponent knew what he was doing and you just didn't realize it.

One good coach once told me: "Playing table tennis is as much about seeing what your opponent is doing as it is about trying to do what you want to." I have heard Ernesto Ebuen say that to many different players. Matthew Khan, another coach, who I took a few lessons with, would stress how you always have to reset and see what the opponent is going to do. And if you don't reset and show what you think your opponent will do, or what you want your opponent to do, before they do it, they will use that against you. Like if you serve and automatically turn like you want to loop with your FH and think you know where the ball is going, a good player will punish you for that by putting the ball where you are not ready, and you will not be able to recover and handle that because you have already committed to a different shot.

Table tennis is so much about seeing and reading what your opponent will do AS IT HAPPENS. And higher level players generate a higher level of spin and power. If you don't know how to handle that spin and power, if you are not used to reading that level of spin, you will be in trouble.

And someone who cannot see the shot quality and level of spin that NextLevel consistently produces, probably doesn't quite understand what I am talking about.

 

[NextLevel]

It is human to think that we mess up or that we did something well when we play racket sports. I can't tell you how many times I have played players who have no chance against me where they say, "I am just not playing well right now." And they don't see how the person on the other side of the table has A LOT to do with how they are playing.

In a racket sport like table tennis, what your opponent does has more to do with what you do and what YOU CAN do, than most people realize.

So true and underestimated by some that it is not even funny. When people push my serve into the net, the first reaction from lower level players is to say that they made a mistake. They often don't realize that if they let that ball go off the table (if it made it that far), it would come right back to where I was standing. For some players, they want to use all that spin to get a heavy backspin push and if they do it right, I net the ball. But would they have gotten all that backspin if I didn't load up the serve? You tell me.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

So true and underestimated by some that it is not even funny. When people push my serve into the net, the first reaction from lower level players is to say that they made a mistake.

I looked at my racket to see if it was wet or something LOL

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Achieved all time high club 2054 rating using Karis M+ in just one week. Will I achieve a similar USATT rating in next week's NA Team's Tourney?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Don't talk about it or you will jinx it!!!

GOOD LUCK!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I do not remember which member on which thread suggested your post in that thread should be post of the year

IMO, this should be Post of the Year!

Cheers Carl!

Of course it is good to play matches against players who are better you. It is good to play matches with people of all levels. When a player is better than you and they play in a way where you can play your best it is extremely useful in helping you improve. But so is playing matches against players who are your actual level and same with playing matches against players who are lower level than you. You will learn different things from each scenario. It is, in fact, even good to play matches against players who are better than you when they use all kinds of strategy and deception to keep you from doing anything you think you normally can do.

Sometimes those matches where you feel like you are falling apart and just keep messing up and losing easy points with mistakes, can teach you a lot, particularly about your level and humility. A lot of the times, those things we think are just our messing up, are actually, us not being able to deal with a higher ball quality than we are normally used to, or a higher degree of randomness than usual, or someone picking up the pace and requiring us to reset faster by taking the ball right off the bounce on a push.

It is human to think that we mess up or that we did something well when we play racket sports. I can't tell you how many times I have played players who have no chance against me where they say, "I am just not playing well right now." And they don't see how the person on the other side of the table has A LOT to do with how they are playing.

In a racket sport like table tennis, what your opponent does has more to do with what you do and what YOU CAN do, than most people realize.

A good player sets himself up to win points, and pressures you in ways that cause you to mess up and lose points outright or they cause you to give the opponent easy opportunities. So, if you are up by 4 points at 10-6 and lose the game at 12-10 and you feel you made a lot of easy mistakes, it may be that the opponent knew what he was doing and you just didn't realize it.

One good coach once told me: "Playing table tennis is as much about seeing what your opponent is doing as it is about trying to do what you want to." I have heard Ernesto Ebuen say that to many different players. Matthew Khan, another coach, who I took a few lessons with, would stress how you always have to reset and see what the opponent is going to do. And if you don't reset and show what you think your opponent will do, or what you want your opponent to do, before they do it, they will use that against you. Like if you serve and automatically turn like you want to loop with your FH and think you know where the ball is going, a good player will punish you for that by putting the ball where you are not ready, and you will not be able to recover and handle that because you have already committed to a different shot.

Table tennis is so much about seeing and reading what your opponent will do AS IT HAPPENS. And higher level players generate a higher level of spin and power. If you don't know how to handle that spin and power, if you are not used to reading that level of spin, you will be in trouble.

And someone who cannot see the shot quality and level of spin that NextLevel consistently produces, probably doesn't quite understand what I am talking about.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

For those who are interested, here are some pictures of the finished 'Clicky Press' that I made a short time ago:

View attachment 11354


Here's one with the racket in it:

View attachment 11355

Two pieces of info that hopefully help improve the design.

If you had thick washers between the nut and the wood and the head of the bolt and the wood, it will help and the wood will last better.

On the Clicky Press, the bolts near be bottom (flat edge), have a slot so it can start wider than the blade face and the bolt can be slid in closer to the handle once the blade is in. You can make a a lot like that with a regular drill. It would really be useful. Those two bolts so wide at the bottom are your weakest link.


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[Jirrex]

Two pieces of info that hopefully help improve the design.

If you had thick washers between the nut and the wood and the head of the bolt and the wood, it will help and the wood will last better.

On the Clicky Press, the bolts near be bottom (flat edge), have a slot so it can start wider than the blade face and the bolt can be slid in closer to the handle once the blade is in. You can make a a lot like that with a regular drill. It would really be useful. Those two bolts so wide at the bottom are your weakest link.


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Thanks for your input Carl, there's always room for improvement.

I used washers on the spots you mentioned, only they can't be seen very clearly on the picture.

You are right about the two bolts at the bottom being the weakest link, and I also have been thinking about what you just said: making some kind of a slider system.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Always take care of REAL LIFE first, don't worry about TT or TTD!!

TT and TTDaily make the real things I have to deal with in my everyday life go better. And if I really paid attention to this, based my REAL LIFE, I would probably never come on here. But you have to have some things that make you happy.

Ahhh, shweeeet!
Can i nominate this for Quote of the year?

I do not remember which member on which thread suggested your post in that thread should be post of the year

IMO, this should be Post of the Year!

Cheers Carl!

Here is the full chain of events. The thing here is, one is a statement about perspective relating to TT, and one is an ontological statement that reflects a bigger picture about life.

In addition, Suga D is my boy, and he may have some insight into how deep down that little statement I made really goes; only a small handful of people on TTD actually have that inside scoop. But Suga D has been to the secret hideout and seen the labyrinth and the subterranean workshop. He has pulled the trip switch on the trap door and trapped the goon squad in the septic tank. He even has the pull-ball video footage to prove that he is one of the illuminati. So he's good like that.

Metaphors can be fun.


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[Archosaurus]

Today I produced a few really nice backspin serves. I was watching Samson Dubina serve in the morning, and I tried to keep that feeling of acceleration in mind.

I had also changed my pendulum grip, by moving the thumb slightly more outwards, to even out the natural swing angle. I think my contact is a bit harsher than it should be because my racket always gets some angle naturally from how my thumb suspends it. I think having the angle be flat is better. I will keep experimenting.

During the first few strokes of testing, I just went all out trying to get as much whip as possible and hit a much spinnier short serve than usual. Then later I did one more.

It felt like I touched the ball very lightly, and it went off so smoothly. Usually I feel that I produce a slightly harsher contact: I need to work on my timing. I either get a harsher contact than this, or a soft contact that slips off.


I tried to do some again, but nothing worked. I sat down for a bit and thought about everything, and I came to the conclusion that it was probably not that much better contact than my usual fine contact, but the acceleration let the rubber grab on and spin the ball instead of slipping. I was also leaning more forward and slightly lower: maybe the angle I approached the ball was better?

Do you think this is what happened? Or was it my touch? Both? Well, regardless I will keep doing floor serves and whatnot to better my contact and timing.

 

[NextLevel]

Today I produced a few really nice backspin serves. I was watching Samson Dubina serve in the morning, and I tried to keep that feeling of acceleration in mind.

I had also changed my pendulum grip, by moving the thumb slightly more outwards, to even out the natural swing angle. I think my contact is a bit harsher than it should be because my racket always gets some angle naturally from how my thumb suspends it. I think having the angle be flat is better. I will keep experimenting.

During the first few strokes of testing, I just went all out trying to get as much whip as possible and hit a much spinnier short serve than usual. Then later I did one more.

It felt like I touched the ball very lightly, and it went off so smoothly. Usually I feel that I produce a slightly harsher contact: I need to work on my timing. I either get a harsher contact than this, or a soft contact that slips off.


I tried to do some again, but nothing worked. I sat down for a bit and thought about everything, and I came to the conclusion that it was probably not that much better contact than my usual fine contact, but the acceleration let the rubber grab on and spin the ball instead of slipping. I was also leaning more forward and slightly lower: maybe the angle I approached the ball was better?

Do you think this is what happened? Or was it my touch? Both? Well, regardless I will keep doing floor serves and whatnot to better my contact and timing.

You seriously want us to respond to this without video?

[h=1]“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.” - George Santayana[/h]

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You seriously want us to respond to this without video?

[h=1]“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.” - George Santayana[/h]

Here we go again. Thanks for this post NL.

Once again we have a new episode of: "The Idiot Philosopher Contemplates Table Tennis: Is It All In His Mind!"

Video footage coming in the next millennium.


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[NextLevel]

The best I can tell you, Archo, is that practicing and looking at the ball and trying to reproduce what gave the best results will get you as far as you can go over time. There is no magic formula to improving the quality of your serves. The most important thing is regular practice and feedback from the ball quality or from a coach who is observing and correcting your technique so you don't build in bad habits.

When you record yourself, even just minute of your practice, you can learn a lot from it. Because technique is revealed pretty quickly. I just go overboard because youtube doesn't limit videos.

 

[Archosaurus]

Ah, that's very true. There's no way you can know specifically what's going on with my serve. Could be anything.

Well, let's put it like this then:

What is required to produce a heavy short backspin? How does it feel compared to a light short backspin?

@NextLevel

I'm not exactly sure how I did them, but I have some idea. Although I think now is the time to remind myself that it might take months to years to really nail just the timing. Maybe it was foolish to think that I could become consistent in this kind of quality just by knowing "what I'm doing wrong".

I haven't been practicing serves too much lately, so I haven't taken a video either. I think now is the time when I need to get some feedback, because I'm a bit stumped.

However today was very cool to see that I made a little progress, dipped my toes into deeper water. I was getting discouraged with this plateau.

@UpSideDownCarl

Hah, that's a good title. I get your point.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Carl, you still haven't caught onto the fact that sometimes I exaggerate my bullshit to provoke a response.

Let's see. Does this apply here too?

Archo's confession of knowingly being an internet troll.



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[UpSideDownCarl]

Hah, that's a good title. I get your point.

Sorry to be on this again. If you got the point of my post--then the post that I just excerpted this small quote from--what was it about? "I get your point so let me do it some more?"

Keep practicing serves. If you want helpful feedback post some footage of serve practice. The rest is just masterbation.



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[OldschoolPenholder]

For me Real Life is to be home and help my son with his homework and test preparation ... but yeah, we all have different Real Lives ... for me, it's more fun to hang out on TTD during lulls of workday than actually playing TT ... I'm kidding!!

Although my proposed candidate for Post of the Year as quoted is specifically about TT, i see it broader than TT.

Here is the full chain of events. The thing here is, one is a statement about perspective relating to TT, and one is an ontological statement that reflects a bigger picture about life.

In addition, Suga D is my boy, and he may have some insight into how deep down that little statement I made really goes; only a small handful of people on TTD actually have that inside scoop. But Suga D has been to the secret hideout and seen the labyrinth and the subterranean workshop. He has pulled the trip switch on the trap door and trapped the goon squad in the septic tank. He even has the pull-ball video footage to prove that he is one of the illuminati. So he's good like that.

Metaphors can be fun.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[TareqPhoto]

About that serving topic, my regular friend is very very good in returning serves whatever it is, when i practice with him and i try to do all kind of serves, short, long, spin, no spin, topspin, backhand spin,,,,etc he is able to return them all, and he told me the only way i can make it to him for a point is to serve and get ready, because he told me that the coach told him that you have to know how to serve so you know where it will come and what you are gonna do next after serving, so that i practice with him on serving so i get ready to hit back after his returning, and that helped me a lot in some games, but need more to practice, i no longer giving easy serves to anyone even if they return it back, because from what i see since 4 months ago that no one did attack my serves even those top players, but i need to learn how to get ready better and more.