Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

@Boogar

Somehow I don't think a very weak player makes it to the finals of anything with supposedly stronger players there.

Maybe he isn't as weak as you think?

 

[Boogar]

Boogar,

What does playing terrible mean to you?

Not playing how i should, that means for me zo not attack easy balls and to not try to spin the ball.

 

[NextLevel]

Not playing how i should, that means for me zo not attack easy balls and to not try to spin the ball.

I find that whenever I rewatch a match that I thought I played badly, this is never true. The real issue is either that I was tired or that I had issues reading the player. Still need to see you use excess power.

 

[NextLevel]

@Boogar

Somehow I don't think a very weak player makes it to the finals of anything with supposedly stronger players there.

Maybe he isn't as weak as you think?

Spot on, and this supposedly weak player won it all. I have played many matches as a blocker where players would complain about losing to a player like myself who supposedly had no strokes. It's one thing to say that when judging a player's technique but another thing to say that when judging a player's effectiveness.

 

[NextLevel]

Great one-two serving combination from Wang (Eugene) Zhen.

youtu.be/_dGKgfoHfaw?t=504

BTW, on the topic of weaker players beating stronger players or players playing better against better players and worse against even weaker players - I suspect the real reason why Boogar played supposedly badly against worse players is that he still doesn't know how to read and attack the balls of weaker players (whose balls do not fall into his framework) with confidence. That's why looking at the match would be interesting.

 

[Archosaurus]

NL, that's the reasoning that I've used in the past.

"His shots have so little pace and spin that it's hard to attack them."

It's true: it is. However who'se fault is it, mine or theirs, that their much weaker shots are too much for me to handle?

 

[NextLevel]

NL, that's the reasoning that I've used in the past.

"His shots have so little pace and spin that it's hard to attack them."

It's true: it is. However who'se fault is it, mine or theirs, that their much weaker shots are too much for me to handle?

It is true in an important sense. After all, everyone has gaps in what they can read and adjust to, even Ma Long. And the sooner you accept your responsibility to read and adjust your stroke to the incoming ball, the further you will get and the faster you will get there. That is why playing different styles helps to optimize your technique, of course with a bias towards the style you play against the most. Sometimes, the key is how you set us the point and not just how well you play the rallies. I find that if you have a focused approach on serve, serve return and third ball, you may never find out things like that your opponent is really a chopper.

I changed blades to a faster blade recently and I started doing better against the topspin players but I am struggling more with the pips ball. Finding the right balance is going to be an interesting challenge.

 

[Archosaurus]

I don't feel like making an entirely new thread just for this personal question:

My rubbers are starting to wear. They're still good to spin the ball and there's no problem, but they will just wear more and eventually I need a replacement. I'm willing to use a little bit more money per sheet than what I used last time.

Based on roughly where I am now and where I'll probably be in a few months, should I upgrade to a higher grade tacky rubber? What would be good examples of such a rubber when unboosted? Hurricane 3 Neo looks tempting.

Additionally, should I try out a non-tacky rubber?

Lastly, is there even need to upgrade?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Last night I hit/played with 3 people.

First things first though, trying to lose weight, eating less ... on days I go to TT, I am active... still haven't found the balance of minimum food to eat for what's needed as fuel ... felt a little light-headed

2nd, played in the area where there are white walls on one side, the other side is the outside of a light grayish colored enclosure to the Olympic weight lifting area...

3rd, i wear glasses - nearsighted, however, perhaps vanity, perhaps reminds me of my youth when i don't wear glasses, or fear of glasses slipping off or perhaps all 3 reason, but when i play i don't wear glasses. partly why i can't pick up the white ball easily.

Not fond of playing in this area, but open table here.

1) I was playing on the open table here, and it was treated as a warm-up table. The 'real' matches were played on a different table next to this area. Warmed up with J ... after maybe 20 mins, felt light-headed and weak. Took a break, sat down and had a snack.

2) Played 'Si-hing' 1 game. He didn't mind using an orange ball. Haven't taken a match from him yet. Have close matches in the past, sometimes i win 1 or 2 games. After losing the first game at 8, Si-hing left cos he had next on the real table. I am my own worst enemy. So inconsistent. I'm still playing inconsistently. Tried to use a short pendulum motion. I see now I still have loads to work on, but my pendulum motion used to have a lot of moving parts and was a way longer motion.

Had time last night to edit raw video - full game. Comments as always welcomed.

For new TTD CCers on this thread, I'm in dark top and bluish shorts. My back to phone camera. Sorry for bad angle, there is a ledge there. Didn't get a new magnetic tripod yet, after having sold mine to a member, "Fun", who wanted one as he was going on vacation the next day. The metallic cabinet you see in background would've been perfect for the magnetic tripod.

3) Played a gentleman next and i have video but didn't have time to edit the 19+ mins of raw video.

Will comment on this match after posting video. Will shoot to edit video tonight.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is true in an important sense. After all, everyone has gaps in what they can read and adjust to, even Ma Long. And the sooner you accept your responsibility to read and adjust your stroke to the incoming ball, the further you will get and the faster you will get there. That is why playing different styles helps to optimize your technique, of course with a bias towards the style you play against the most. Sometimes, the key is how you set us the point and not just how well you play the rallies. I find that if you have a focused approach on serve, serve return and third ball, you may never find out things like that your opponent is really a chopper.

I changed blades to a faster blade recently and I started doing better against the topspin players but I am struggling more with the pips ball. Finding the right balance is going to be an interesting challenge.

You could be like Tareq and have a different racket for each new occasion! But then you might end up with LP on BH most of the time so you can return serves and not need to know how you did it. Oh, wait, you already know how to read spin and return serves. Never mind. [emoji2]

Not playing how i should, that means for me zo not attack easy balls and to not try to spin the ball.

The reason, when I play with SmashFan, he goes back and forth between playing his offensive game and feeding me weird, random junk balls, is that, to break past a certain level you need to be able to handle both random garbage and high level power shots. Adjusting to each separate ball is a skill set that needs to be practiced.

At this point, if I can get someone to push my serves, I can open pretty strong. If the opponent is 1.5 levels higher than me or lower, most of those will be my points. With the player higher level than me, they see that and don't push when they need the points.

If I can push a player's serves short and have them push back, I can do the same thing to the player on their serves and not have to risk a more aggressive return off their serves.

This doesn't happen with the higher level players unless they are coasting or wanting to practice against my opening. But my opening has become enough more dangerous that that is not great strategy when the player does need the point.

Anyway, the point here actually is that, there is a way to train so that, whatever comes back, and wherever it comes to, whether a push or a flip, or a loop, or a junk ball, after your serve, you can be ready to pull the trigger and attack if you want.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[NextLevel]

I don't feel like making an entirely new thread just for this personal question:

My rubbers are starting to wear. They're still good to spin the ball and there's no problem, but they will just wear more and eventually I need a replacement. I'm willing to use a little bit more money per sheet than what I used last time.

Based on roughly where I am now and where I'll probably be in a few months, should I upgrade to a higher grade tacky rubber? What would be good examples of such a rubber when unboosted? Hurricane 3 Neo looks tempting.

Additionally, should I try out a non-tacky rubber?

Lastly, is there even need to upgrade?

Depending on how you want to play and how much money you have, the sooner you leave Chinese tacky rubbers behind the better. Obviously, your budget is the key.

 

[Archosaurus]

Depending on how you want to play and how much money you have, the sooner you leave Chinese tacky rubbers behind the better. Obviously, your budget is the key.

What do you mean with "Depending on how you want to play"?

In terms of style, or playing level?

Why do you think Chinese tacky rubbers are bad? Are they too hard to use or require a style which I can't quite develop myself to play, are they not good at all for allround play at the U2000 level, do you think they don't have enough advantages over non-tacky rubber in general?

I'll probably stick to cheaper tacky rubber simply because of budget, but is there a reason why more expensive non-tacky would be inherently better for my development in the long run?

 

[NextLevel]

You could be like Tareq and have a different racket for each new occasion! But then you might end up with LP on BH most of the time so you can return serves and not need to know how you did it. Oh, wait, you already know how to read spin and return serves. Never mind. [emoji2]

The reason, when I play with SmashFan, he goes back and forth between playing his offensive game and feeding me weird, random junk balls, it that, to break past a certain level you need to be able to handle both random garbage and high level power shots. Adjusting to each separate ball is a skill set that needs to be practiced.

At this point, if I can get someone to push my serves, I can open pretty strong. If the opponent is 1.5 levels higher than me or lower, most of those will be my points. With the player higher level than me, they see that and don't push when they need the points.

If I can push a player's serves short and have them push back, I can do the same thing to the player on their serves and not have to risk a more aggressive return off their serves.

This doesn't happen with the higher level players unless they are coasting or wanting to practice against my opening. But my opening has become enough more dangerous that that is not great strategy when the player does need the point.

Anyway, the point here actually is that, there is a way to train so that, whatever comes back, and wherever it comes to, whether a push or a flip, or a loop, or a junk ball, after your serve, you can be ready to pull the trigger and attack if you want.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

There is truth to this, but sometimes, high level junk balls don't come at you the same way lower level junk balls do. Lower level ones tend to look like good stroke but from a player who doesn't make consistently good contact with the ball if at all. So a better player like Boogar might read the ball as being heavier than it actually is and fail to make the right adjustments.

IT's all experience, but the mistake is to think that you are not playing well because you are not playing strokes against balls you haven't practiced reading. There is a whole process to trusting the way the ball comes off your paddle as the most accurate read of what is on the ball as well as learning to adapt your stroke to that read and it takes time to get there.

 

[NextLevel]

What do you mean with "Depending on how you want to play"?

In terms of style, or playing level?

Why do you think Chinese tacky rubbers are bad? Are they too hard to use or require a style which I can't quite develop myself to play, are they not good at all for allround play at the U2000 level, do you think they don't have enough advantages over non-tacky rubber in general?

I'll probably stick to cheaper tacky rubber simply because of budget, but is there a reason why more expensive non-tacky would be inherently better for my development in the long run?

Yes. The reason is called "more spin". Another good reason is better quality control, but it depends on where you want your game to go.

 

[Archosaurus]

Yes. The reason is called "more spin". Another good reason is better quality control, but it depends on where you want your game to go.

Assuming I want to embrace the 3rd ball attack and short game and I would get coached for it. Then it would make sense to stick to tacky rubbers?

On the contrary if I just want to play an allround looping game, perhaps not as extensively coached, it'd be best to use non-tacky?

 

[ttmonster]

Great spin on your serves OSP ... wanted to say a couple of things .. :

1. wearing glasses makes a helluva difference , at least it made for me, and I am near sighted from my 12+ years of IT . I would suggest , do try it out. Only thing you would need is a bandana or a I use a football skull cap, the kind they use under the helmets to keep the sweat off. The sweat is a bother but depends on how much hair covering you have got, I don't have much

2. I don't think its a good idea to diet on the days you are playing , shouldn't it be the other way round. I am not an expert , but from what I keep reading and hearing , if you are fasting and then exercising your body , it will release cortisol which will cause more stress and you will not lose weight . I would say eat some oatmeal and a piece of fruit like apple an hour or two before playing and keep a banana handy during playing so that you can keep biting to prevent the bottoming out from happening , I for one surely don't like that feeling .

Last night I hit/played with 3 people.

First things first though, trying to lose weight, eating less ... on days I go to TT, I am active... still haven't found the balance of minimum food to eat for what's needed as fuel ... felt a little light-headed

2nd, played in the area where there are white walls on one side, the other side is the outside of a light grayish colored enclosure to the Olympic weight lifting area...

3rd, i wear glasses - nearsighted, however, perhaps vanity, perhaps reminds me of my youth when i don't wear glasses, or fear of glasses slipping off or perhaps all 3 reason, but when i play i don't wear glasses. partly why i can't pick up the white ball easily.

Not fond of playing in this area, but open table here.

1) I was playing on the open table here, and it was treated as a warm-up table. The 'real' matches were played on a different table next to this area. Warmed up with J ... after maybe 20 mins, felt light-headed and weak. Took a break, sat down and had a snack.

2) Played 'Si-hing' 1 game. He didn't mind using an orange ball. Haven't taken a match from him yet. Have close matches in the past, sometimes i win 1 or 2 games. After losing the first game at 8, Si-hing left cos he had next on the real table. I am my own worst enemy. So inconsistent. I'm still playing inconsistently. Tried to use a short pendulum motion. I see now I still have loads to work on, but my pendulum motion used to have a lot of moving parts and was a way longer motion.

Had time last night to edit raw video - full game. Comments as always welcomed.

For new TTD CCers on this thread, I'm in dark top and bluish shorts. My back to phone camera. Sorry for bad angle, there is a ledge there. Didn't get a new magnetic tripod yet, after having sold mine to a member, "Fun", who wanted one as he was going on vacation the next day. The metallic cabinet you see in background would've been perfect for the magnetic tripod.

3) Played a gentleman next and i have video but didn't have time to edit the 19+ mins of raw video.

Will comment on this match after posting video. Will shoot to edit video tonight.

 

[NextLevel]

Assuming I want to embrace the 3rd ball attack and short game and I would get coached for it. Then it would make sense to stick to tacky rubbers?

On the contrary if I just want to play an allround looping game, perhaps not as extensively coached, it'd be best to use non-tacky?

Tacky rubber is just slow and less spinny. There can be advantages to this (potentially more control especially close to the table and on pushes), but there are also disadvantages (harder to make high spin offensive shots). It's unlikely you will ever be able to put in the effort required to spin with basic cheap tacky rubber at a high level. You might boost it, but that isn't always reliable either. The cheaper sponges are also inconsistent without boosting. And even when you boost, there is a way that the rubber and the sponge are designed to work together that your stroke must adjust to. IF you like it and it suits your technique, great. But if you have certain aspirations, it is best to head in that direction asap.

You should probably get H3Neo (Though I prefer Skyline) and see whether you can handle the weight and sponge. What I have come to appreciate as I become a better player is the importance of rubber technology and that it is not as trivial as it seems. IF you were a physically more athletic and stronger person, I would not dissuade you from trying tacky rubbers in the pursuit of CNT Fanboism as much. But I have seen much bigger Fanbois (both physically and fanatically) fall to the wayside after trying to use tacky rubbers and making a compromise of some sort.

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

Based on what I've heard from you: it depends, and we will see.

I myself enjoy the aspect of physically bettering myself to perform better, and right now I'm not terribly concerned in ultimate equipment performance. This is however a beginner's view, I might get a different view as the years go on. No, I'm sure I will.

I think I will go for H3 Neo in a month or two to see how it feels if conditions permit, and then we see if I branch into non-tacky rubbers. I think I need to decide for myself based on my own experience what I stick to in the long run and that requires using more rubbers.

So, short term: Probably H3 Neo
Long term: Try out non-tacky and tensors

I wonder if that Tenergy offer is still up from @Suga D...

 

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel

Based on what I've heard from you: it depends, and we will see.

I myself enjoy the aspect of physically bettering myself to perform better, and right now I'm not terribly concerned in ultimate equipment performance. This is however a beginner's view, I might get a different view as the years go on. No, I'm sure I will.

I think I will go for H3 Neo in a month or two to see how it feels if conditions permit, and then we see if I branch into non-tacky rubbers. I think I need to decide for myself based on my own experience what I stick to in the long run and that requires using more rubbers.

So, short term: Probably H3 Neo
Long term: Try out non-tacky and tensors

I wonder if that Tenergy offer is still up from @Suga D...

I don't try to dissuade fanbois, I let them find out the hard truth on their own. H3 is an advanced rubber.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Great spin on your serves OSP ... wanted to say a couple of things .. :

Thank you ttmonster! Lucky with the spin, not quite the motion (yet) that NL taught me. Still need lots of work on it. Also on placement.

1. wearing glasses makes a helluva difference , at least it made for me, and I am near sighted from my 12+ years of IT . I would suggest , do try it out. Only thing you would need is a bandana or a I use a football skull cap, the kind they use under the helmets to keep the sweat off. The sweat is a bother but depends on how much hair covering you have got, I don't have much

Yeah, i may have to wear glasses when i play... thank you!

2. I don't think its a good idea to diet on the days you are playing , shouldn't it be the other way round. I am not an expert , but from what I keep reading and hearing , if you are fasting and then exercising your body , it will release cortisol which will cause more stress and you will not lose weight . I would say eat some oatmeal and a piece of fruit like apple an hour or two before playing and keep a banana handy during playing so that you can keep biting to prevent the bottoming out from happening , I for one surely don't like that feeling .

Noted ... i have to try these out or other foods/amounts. Thank you again ttmonster!