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Who played that girl?
Echte or monster?
Anyways - she looks nice, but completely uninterrested..
Like ZERO attitude. Zero motivation.
Thats how it looked to me.

Anyways - at least I got something to celebrate!
With my poor 25% of success in my league, I finally managed to win more than one match y-day..
And it was against no.4 ranked player of the league, a player with over 80% :)
Yes, that made my day!
Even though I played against no.1 player and scored 9 points in 3 sets, lol..

Michal_Z,

Good win man. Good stuff to step up like that.

As for my opponent in the vid, you just had to be there and see the whole match and the ones before to really get the feel. Sorry the vid evidence was fragmented, but at least it showed the full game I lost. It showed where I wasn't aggressive enough leading with 2 game points. Too bad the vid missed the first game, that is prolly where I discouraged her strengths - BH opening, rallying close to table high speed, and point finishing. My heavy pushes - she hit a few into the net, my dead pushes, she lifted a few out. When she returned my underspin with an underspin, I looped real heavy or loop killed if it was dead or high enough. She didn't have much to go to in game one, and it carried over into the later sets.

She plays a very fast game with BH openers and stays close to the table. Her high level partners also play a fast game, not a slow heavy spin of change spin game like I did. I got her to play at my speed, so I had better chances - it also helped me NOT to have to go on defense in situations where I would still lose the point. Occasionally, she got me to play at her speed and strengths, and she made me pay for it. I guess it could be boiled down tactically to me getting her to play to my strengths a lot more than she got me into her strengths... and I didn't convert every chance I got... so she still nearly won. All the games were 11-9 or deuce. If I missed another shot in any of those games, I coulda lost. I had a huge advantage in pressuring her out of her game, but didn't make points out of every chance, but still, I made enough.

She was interested in winning. Her team was down 1-2 at that point. (Because Der_Echte lost his first singles match) Her team has a very good win percentage, but really needed this win to ensure they make the playoffs. We also needed a win in that match, too many teams with identical records or 1-2 losses more than us. There was a LOT at stake. We are very near the end of season.

When she was leading our No 1 player 2-1 in sets and also up 7-5 in the deciding 5th set, she had the same did-interested outward demeanor, but don't anyone be fooled by that. She isn't someone who gets excited and cho-away crazy like Sochs or Harimoto... She is a lethal warrior with a calm attitude towards her business... while Der_Echte is in it to entertain a crowd. After all, TT should be an entertainment business. She carries the same look in her training and important matches. If anything, I think her attitude is something Der_Echte needs more of really. I have a small history of inward/outward stuff not exactly helping my games.
 
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Just got a call that I will be in tomorrow's "district" (there is no literal translation I think) championship after someone called in sick :rolleyes: (You need a top 8 finish in the previous tournament to qualify) I will probably be one of the lowest rating wise so I got nothing to lose! Gonna give it my best shot
 
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@Der_Echte

i think its the first time I see you play a video of you playing a competitive match

I really think you could have won this match. The girl did some very good points, but she made a lot of unforced errors, like trying FH flicks receives with a low % success. She had the right shot selection and through the match there were some very good attacking combos on her side but overall her consistency was quite low.

Obviously you can't move like her, but I thought the quality of your spin and short game was better than her, and your services lower and more spinny than her.

The main problem i see is that you seem to be angry during the match and losing your focus, taking too many risks, and going for low percentage shots. Like you often commit to pivot; sometimes you score the point but there is no way you'll ever be able a simple block on your FH or even middle if it happens.

If you played a bit more calmly, and use less power but try to play 2-3 FH attacks instead of just 1, and play in a more controlled way, i think you beat her easily next time, if she plays at the same level than on this video.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Stop right there - he won the match!

oh he did ??
i was confused because in the following messages i had the impression that HE said he LOST.

And watching on the video, i didn't count the points, and it wasn't clear from the facial expression who won at the end. Actually I thought the last point was for him, and I found it odd, but it wasn't clear if there was an edge ball from the angle.

Anyway, i keep my words, the girl had some nice shots and did some nice combos, but she is not consistent at all, she's giving away many free points. Der_Echte could have won even more easily if he didn't take so much risk
 
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Buddy you have gotten it all wrong , I have seen this match in person ( I am the said Captain :rolleyes: of troublemakers ) and I have been seeing this girl practice pretty much 6-7 days a weeks against 2400 level players ...

She also gave our top guy ( somebody is atleast two levels above William ) a lot of trouble with her backhand counter and flip ... in this match in the missing first set in the video , William played some blistering counters to her backhand openings to shut that wing down .. and then confused her with his variations in pushes and heavy loops ... you have to play William in person to understand how deceptive William's game is ...




oh he did ??
i was confused because in the following messages i had the impression that HE said he LOST.

And watching on the video, i didn't count the points, and it wasn't clear from the facial expression who won at the end. Actually I thought the last point was for him, and I found it odd, but it wasn't clear if there was an edge ball from the angle.

Anyway, i keep my words, the girl had some nice shots and did some nice combos, but she is not consistent at all, she's giving away many free points. Der_Echte could have won even more easily if he didn't take so much risk
 
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Buddy you have gotten it all wrong , I have seen this match in person ( I am the said Captain :rolleyes: of troublemakers ) and I have been seeing this girl practice pretty much 6-7 days a weeks against 2400 level players ...

She also gave our top guy ( somebody is atleast two levels above William ) a lot of trouble with her backhand counter and flip ... in this match in the missing first set in the video , William played some blistering counters to her backhand openings to shut that wing down .. and then confused her with his variations in pushes and heavy loops ... you have to play William in person to understand how deceptive William's game is ...

so it matches my impression that he was the better player (and indeed he won)

at 0'34 she misses her topspin attack, the ball was a bit shorter and backspin she was a bit too far and chose to hit it instead of timing it better or pushing it back. miss. next coming a long serve and she tries a flick. You don't try a flick on a long serve. you topspin it back. 2 misses in a row. can't say both are totally "unforced errors", but if she was consistent she wouldn't miss it

1'11 the table is wide open and she misses the block which is not so difficult. 1'22 its a good serve but she doesn't go to the ball she reaches for it.
1'52 same miss, flicking the long serve. At 3'43 she scores the point with it on the 3rd attempt.
6'10 she tries a counter again on Der_Echte good attack, but why doesn't she try to block simply. She's never really tried so far in the match, its much less risky, and she didn't test if our friend could do move well and attack not just one ball but 2 or 3 in a row. At 6'50 she just blocks (at last ) and scores a point. 7'05 same.

last 2 points she has the serve and misses twice in a row her BH opener.

She made some nice points and her BH attacks were all spinny, and earned her a few points although she never played even once down the line and Der_Echte got used to it and placed at least 2 good counters as she became predictable.

As for Der_Echte, i liked his BH cross attack like at 2'46. His FH attacks are powerful deep and spinny but he's committing 200% and if the ball comes back, more than once it was very difficult for him. He was dominating in the short game and pushing game, never did he make a push mistake while she had problem dealing with the backspin (either push miss or loop miss). He had the better serves as well. He was overall more consistent and the better player. and its not a surprise that he won. Even if the girl would look good in a "best-of", he was by far the more solid player and also he had more fighting spirit, fighting for some balls which were quite far from him

TTM, I think its because of her looks that you got impressed so much by her...

Congrats
 
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TWI,

I said I COULD have lost this match. The vid didn't show game one and most of game two... where I did most of the work to get her to not look as good.

The video shows some signs and you picked up a good number of them... but you really must be there live to understand pace and spin in real time. The vids never fully show my spin. Some were very heavy, some were next to no spin, the vid did show location though... Maybe one can pick up on tactics a bit too.

The vid looked like I was angry, but I was silly happy having fun all the way. You could see me clapping for many of her shots smiling. I was pretty focused, about as calm as focused as anyone ever saw me in a meaningful match. This match win we had pretty much eliminated Facebook from directly qualifying for playoffs... we also needed the win to help our chances, we were pretty much in the same boat - we lose and our chances go down.

As for the short game, neither of us played that much, we both were not reading spin well enough to go for that consistently. You got it right, I played better pushing than her pushing, but you have to understand, this is a player way better than me who crush kills a long push... and I was giving her long push after long push. There is a reason why her percentages were so low. You would think so different about her if you saw her live practicing vs her high level partners of playing matches vs players 2+ levels better than me.

Why I spin the ball heavy 200%, I need every rpm to scare her, mess up the timing, and discourage her from blocking in position. I made more than 75% of my opening topspins and many were blocked out or were winners. it was my most consistent weapon to apply pressure on her along with my varied push.

This lady was super consistent vs our No 1 player making opening BH topspins and BH to BH counter topspins... you didn't see her play so many of those. Some she made, some I slapped by her, some she missed, there is a reason for this, even if she is 1.5 levels better player than me.

This lady regularly plays with players 3-4 levels better than me, and she is 1.5 levels better player than me. This class of player would normally have enough playing skill and tactical weapons to make me look like a silly school boy not knowing TT. When you see her live in practice and matches, you would think she is almost elite... and she isn't that far from being an elite female player in this area - only a few levels. She eats 2000-2100 male loopers for breakfast like you would eat cereal.

To really see what was going on (why her strengths were not a strength) (and why I could use my strength) you have to understand what strengths are there for the stronger player and what would possibly take them away. Her strengths were a serve that gives a long return, usually to BH, then she opens up with spinny super consistent topspin, then goes bang bang on BH until you submit. She has a step around FH too. She has an opening FH topspin, but she prefers to do a power FH to finish it right away. She does all that, very consistently. Very few apparent weaknesses.

Sow how to I neutralize her strengths, get her to play out of time at my slow or changing pace, and get her to give me chances to play my strong shots?

A player that much better knows how to take away strengths of opponents, knows how to force the game to her pace, knows how to play to her strengths, knows how to get me into going for low percentage chances.

My first number one idea was to get her out of rhythm with slow topspins. This is a time warp. She is accustomed to play close to table very fast - high quality shots. No way I will be more quality or at that speed consistently. That is her strength. Problem is HOW would I get long underspins to open heavy and have a chance to hit it by her or spin it too heavy to counter (her intuition - she doesn't train to block in a match, she trains to counter)

I could get underspins long from my serves. I have good short serves, so she missed a couple and gave me long pushes to be safe, I opened heavy and often won the point. Problem is how to get a long push back for 4th ball when she serves, she wasn't going to serve very long very much. The idea for me was to show very heavy underspin, try to take it as early as I can and still get heavy spin medium pace. I didn't care where the ball went, I waned to show her I was heavy. She missed the first few of those. When she showed she could adjust a little, I started to give her different light spins, she looped a good chunk of those long. I would continue to try to go between heavy and light deep to her BH or middle, sometimes FH... until she loses confidence in her BH opener - her money maker. I was lucky in that the ones she made, more than half, I either blocked or power hit by her. I player my level isn't supposed to do that.

Once she tried to play safer, I got the long pushes, she knew she was giving away points attacking a ball that she isn't reading correctly or seeing in time. Once I got long pushes, I knew I had an even playing field, possibly an advantage... as long as I can stay consistent and keep landing the shots. My early good blocking and power finishes from the BH openers she did land really set the table for later.

I got lucky, I made a number of shots back that she directed to my extreme wide FH, I only won points on these from surprise or a net on one. If I missed those, there would be a game 5.

The vid didn't show my tactics, as I had already done what I needed to do... all the vid showed was long pushes. This is a difficult enough task vs an equal level player, but doing all the tactical things right to get a better player to look not so good is not so easy. You do not see that very often. The other singles match I played, my opponent handled everything I gave him, and troubled me with enough stuff of his own, he was the better player. He did that number on me not even 20 minutes before that match.
 
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TWI,

I see you have participated on the thread where coach Hodges talks about how to move up a level (and the tactical skills to do it) and also you likely saw his link to getting all 6 types of quality in pushes correct.

http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/19 Move to Next Level

http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/358 5 out of 6 Pushes - Bad

I didn't do all six right. I didn't need to. I just had to make the quickness, the spin amount (and variance), and location good quality. Often, I played it right to her strong zone. I did that purposely, I wanted her to get used to missing her reliable attacks and eventually stop trying to attack, or later, get her to attack and miss. I got enough of the right quality correct when I needed to.

Pushing is still a very important part of a 2000 level advanced game, some use it more than others.

Next Level correctly states that not many 1800-2000 level players can mostly push serves long and win. That is true as the pushes of an average 1800-2000 level player are not quality enough to challenge NL or other offensive 2000+ level players. I got away with it as it was difficult to read my push. Later, this got my opponent to simply play it safe, let me attack and miss or have her counter.

The vid didn't show it, but that was prolly the best tactical (and well executed shots) game I ever played.
 
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If you played a bit more calmly, and use less power but try to play 2-3 FH attacks instead of just 1, and play in a more controlled way, i think you beat her easily next time, if she plays at the same level than on this video.

I was as calm as could be.

If I tried to take away spin or (good placement) power and go for 2-3 FH shots first... she would eat up my first ball and make me eat it for a point. This lady will absolutely crush kill a loop that is not high quality, either a step around FH or a BH off the bounce loop to take control of point or win it right there. My heavy spin loop is heavier than those of her her training partners, they mostly practice bang bang at the table. I needed heavy spin of a fast loop kill as a weapon, no way I can play her type of game. Trying to use 2-3 FH vs her is exactly what she wants - something less than a strong quality topspin... and if I hit a strong topspin to the wrong place it was point over for me.

I was playing in control, I used good tactical shots earlier in the match to take away her strengths and give me a chance to use mine... if I chickened out and didn't make a strong shot, she would take over the point. I didn't want to make 6-8 pushes vs her, she might get her courage to attack again or see a push she reads well, I had to keep the surprise and make her pay for being passive or make her pay for attacking too early. I had to attack early (but on the right ball) to have any chance.

I really doubt I will ever defeat her again unless she plays brain dead. By now, she knows WHAT I did and HOW I did it, she has more than enough tools to make my aggressiveness lower percentage. I might make it to 1-3 or 2-3... but no way I win again unless I literally land every shot I attempt. She will realize it or someone will tell her what and how it happened, no way it is happening again.

She was still playing her level, but during the match, she didn't catch on to how I was doing it or how to use the push to make my chances lower and play into something she could anticipate. She will still be the same level, but much more aware of what to do. I simply do not have the playing level skill to defeat her if she is prepared and aware of what to do. (She will be prepared and ready next time, there will be little chance for me)
 
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DE, I don't pretend i'm telling the truth, that's just the impression i got from a 10' footage. and its the first time i see you both.

I can comment only on what I can see, and I saw a lot of mistakes in her game. Her most consistent shot was the BH attack, and it was very spinny, and she won most points with it, but you managed to place 2-3 counters which could have made a difference in the overall balance. Her FH side wasn't consistent, and even her BH was not the SS as she missed the last 2 points.

As for pushing, i never criticized as a bad tactic or not. I can see its a strong part of your game and could see the variations, and that you used it cleverly and it gave you many tactical options. I myself don't hesitate to push in my matches and I believe RELATIVE to my level my push is consistent and spinny. Again lower rated opponents, i can win a match easily just pushing or blocking. When i see I have trouble attacking first i prefer to push, let the other the risk of attacking first and be agressive with my blocking

No I don't want to belittle your victory its a good win, but I think she's not as good as you think she is, (or you worse than her). Table Tennis is a tough sport. You can have a lot of strength in your game (she has a very good BH, she is quick etc...), if you have one or two weaknesses (her difficulty against backspin, consistency below what it should be given other aspects of her game) , its capping your overall ability and level.

All the time we see many club players look very good, and we think wow, they can do this and that, they're so good, what I'm going to do against him ??? look at my training videos I just posted, i look rather good. And look at the recent matches I've posted. 2 different players ? absolutely not, match and training are 2 different things

TLDR I think you are the one who can beat her again next time. Because i saw in the video also you giving her some free points and if you don't, you can win even more easily.
 
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TWI, I never took your comments as negative. You are good to go. All the years I have been on forums I have done worse.

Most of what I posted I wrote for the forum.

Why?

Many players do not get how to look for or know the possible ways to take away someone's strength and get theirs into play or how to make an opponent inconsistent.

It was too bad the vid didn't show game one. That is where I did all my prep. The vid would have shown it to a good degree.

You are right, all you had to go on was what footage was there. She looked much lower level than 2000 bay are 2100 east coast. That was because she was in play it safe mode. My counters and pushes did it.

However, it is unlikely there will be a next win vs her. There are a few things she can do to easily counteract what I did. She will know what to do and I will then struggle to win games vs her.

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As for who is better player, I would define that by who wins more or does better vs the same crowd... over a good number of matches.

She has enough match history to show me she is easily 1.5 levels better than me. Since my last tourney I am prolly .5 to 1 level better, but still not in her class. Her loss to me is one match and she will defeat 10 of my class in her next 10 matches.

I gave away some free points serving long the "wrong" way... they still made my short serve better. Also coughed up points missing some attacks, but I have to take that risk. When I get another level better I won't miss as much.

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As for the pushing, I normally push unless I can absolutely read the short serve. I am confident in blocking or making opponent inconsistent.

At the magic level of 2000 usatt level, pushing is supposed to be crushed and a losing proposition. It is a weapon or a tool or a setup if done well.

You correctly saw I had quality pushes, enough to make her doubt whether to attack. Normally, she attacks ANYTHING LONG... and she lands it for a winner or high pressure nearly every time.

Getting her to push and give me the chance to open and win was huge... but it is unlikely to happen again. Too many things she can use to counter, someone will tell her or she figures it out herself... and I am not good enough to be strong on those... yet.

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I went out 1-2 in groups, which is already better than expected but in the aftermath I am a bit angry that I didn't make it through. First match was vs a guy almost 300 points above me. I could see that he wasn't there yet and gave me a lot of free points. I should have one a game after being 10-8 up, but ultimately his serves were already enough to beat me.

The 2nd guy had about 200 points more than me and I am still biting my ass for not winning. He usually steps away from the table bringing the balls back, if he attacked I was there with the block. All games were won by 2 points, lost 1-3, again I lost a set when I was leading 10-8... I think we were on the same level, but getting through his defenses was very exhausting, maybe if I wasn't 2-0 down it would have been 3-1 the other way around.

Final game against a guy still ~ 130 points above me who plays in our league. I beat him 3-0 which felt pretty good. I was quicker than him and he didn't have those nasty serves that I usually lose to. Surely a step into the right direction
 
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Oh My Guoyuehua!

A little over a year ago! Der jedi-mind tricked me!

SmashFan keeps score for the handsome and suave and debonair Der in red and the ugly old fat guy in black which is me :)


Both SmashFan and I arrive at 10:30pm and Der still had some games in him after playing since ~5pm with Carl, PingPongHolic, 42&backpains and at least 1 other!

-------

The next night, worked with Der at 42andbackpains' club for ~30 mins using Nexy Amazon and MX-P for the first time ever before filming this match -- we worked on 3rd ball controlled spinny loop and I did my best to do it in this match.


----------------

After this match, I played NextLevel (don't have the link to video handy, NL uploaded it, will find and paste in later) and after he crushed me, he was gracious to give me a few pointers!


EDIT: found vid



Both Der and NL, true ambassadors of TT!!
 
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Here is my match against my buddy - he has improved and come down a bit because he doesn't play as much because of his son and our club situation - my strokes have improved but my play has come down because of our club and my injuries. We used to play a lot at the old club but since we moved, he doesn't come because the floor is not good to play on and he plays a physical game. I feel the club is damaging my body too but I don't really have anywhere close by to play that is better. I am trying to make my forehand more consistent and spinny with more use of the fingers. That's the good thing about committing to a blade - you know you can do things and not have to guess them again the next day. I have to work on my short game with this blade but I will work on offence first and touch second.

 
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