Is ma long the GOAT ?

[ping fun]

We both know you're the biggest ZJK fan here and you will never ever say anything negative about him If ZJK was injured against Jun he did a fine job of disguising it as someone in great form, ZJK destroyed Jun. Did you see a ZJK in bad shape?

ML played with a sprained ankle in the WTTC 2017 and still won

I don't think ZJK is the GOAT, no. One of the greatest talents this world has ever seen, though.

Fang Bo is a very good player, his problem is the mental part, he seems to be mentally blocked to bring out his best game regularly. His technique is top notch, overshadowed by very few players.

And no one saw ma long in bad shape in 2017 . Table tennis is like chess but you run and fight with your body too . If Ml and FB had problems in their mind so ... were they a complete player?? Not for sure Beside mental problems , Im sure Fang bo was asking himself in final where the hell I am ? . I told you to watch the video carefully my friend . Zjk pulled mizutani down with that shoulder injury but got worsen vs fang bo . You can see he took his shoulder many times with pain and again were smashing mizutani's defendings . Discussing with you is like carrying water in colander . You insist on your invicible logic and are happy with that

 

[NextLevel]

But they all practiced and played with the same ball, fact The ball is a moot argument. Seems like you're trying to reach for straws

Rains post under yours is very informative, facts.

Not reaching for straws. In fact I would argue that you are just a Ma Long sycophant. The argument has the same level of value. Changing the ball or the material subtly changes the skills that are required to dominate. In fact, Wang Liqin failed quite a few racket tests trying to get his material to perform to his liking. Liu Guoliang for example had to retire when his material was rendered illegal and hidden serves were hurt by rule changes and the ball size was increased. You may think these changes don't amount to much. For me, the plastic ball era represents in many ways a serious break from what came before it. Ma Long gets credit for adapting but I will not remember his inability to win majors in that era. Plain and simple. The rule changes helped him the same way they helped many players - they made backhands easier to play.

 

[NextLevel]

But they all practiced and played with the same ball, fact The ball is a moot argument. Seems like you're trying to reach for straws

Rains post under yours is very informative, facts.

Of course it is not moot. If it was moot, then players would never need to adapt to rule changes. This is why we sometimes talk about eras. Obviously the logic is lost on you.

 

[rainneverever]

"I did not see ML's post-match interview so he refused to talk." (Sorry to take NL as an example again, I know you found out it was not the case after I pointed it out)

"I did not hear ML whined about his injuries so he was NOT injured." (I really hope he is not injured and I am giving up to those people who just refuse facts.)

 

[RidTheKid]

Haha you know I like teasing as well But honestly, I too would've liked ZJK to stay healthy since it would offer more competition. But if he gives up it's his own choice and no one else is to blame.

Sure one can show injuries openly or not, I've seen FZD favoring his exact same area during matchplay (this is where my injury is as well as a matter of fact). Very hard to get rid of.

And no one saw ma long in bad shape in 2017 . Table tennis is like chess but you run and fight with your body too . If Ml and FB had problems in their mind so ... were they a complete player?? Not for sure Beside mental problems , Im sure Fang bo was asking himself in final where the hell I am ? . I told you to watch the video carefully my friend . Zjk pulled mizutani down with that shoulder injury but got worsen vs fang bo . You can see he took his shoulder many times with pain and again were smashing mizutani's defendings . Discussing with you is like carrying water in colander . You insist on your invicible logic and are happy with that

 

[NextLevel]

Relative toughness of the draw for each recent WTTC winner.
I did say looking at the path, 2011 is "tough" and 2015 is "easy". Both tougher than 2009.
But simply it has nothing to do with how many players each association can send. If you don't understand seeding and draw, learn it first.

There are many ways of measuring the quality of a field. You are using one but there are others. Can you compare a field in which the top 7 Chinese players can make WTTC with a field where only the top 5? Same for Germany or Sweden? Japan and Korea? Lim Jonghoon couldn't play this year for Korea. We saw what An Jaehyun did and he is the Korean #5.

 

[NextLevel]

Haha you know I like teasing as well But honestly, I too would've liked ZJK to stay healthy since it would offer more competition. But if he gives up it's his own choice and no one else is to blame.

Sure one can show injuries openly or not, I've seen FZD favoring his exact same area during matchplay (this is where my injury is as well as a matter of fact). Very hard to get rid of.

You make it sound like all injuries are the Same once you decide to play on.

 

[RidTheKid]

LGL already had his plan to study to become a coach. Quitting at 26 is unheard of, don't you think he could start using different short pips as soon as he found out if he really wanted to?

Plastic ball change made the old equipment obsolete and players needed harder rubbers and faster blades to get the same speed as before, as well as building the physique. Do you honestly believe that not everyone has the same chance to get new rubbers, blades, hit the gym and adjust to the new ball? You think that this was a masterplan by ITTF to remove ZJK as a contender and introduce Ma Long instead? It seems like it by reading your posts it was all ML's fault that his peers didn't work as hard as him to stay relevant.

BH easier with the plastic ball, how? I've heard the exact opposite. That the ball doesn't grip the rubber the way it used to.

Not reaching for straws. In fact I would argue that you are just a Ma Long sycophant. The argument has the same level of value. Changing the ball or the material subtly changes the skills that are required to dominate. In fact, Wang Liqin failed quite a few racket tests trying to get his material to perform to his liking. Liu Guoliang for example had to retire when his material was rendered illegal and hidden serves were hurt by rule changes and the ball size was increased. You may think these changes don't amount to much. For me, the plastic ball era represents in many ways a serious break from what came before it. Ma Long gets credit for adapting but I will not remember his inability to win majors in that era. Plain and simple. The rule changes helped him the same way they helped many players - they made backhands easier to play.

 

[rainneverever]

There are many ways of measuring the quality of a field. You are using one but there are others. Can you compare a field in which the top 7 Chinese players can make WTTC with a field where only the top 5? Same for Germany or Sweden? Japan and Korea? Lim Jonghoon couldn't play this year for Korea. We saw what An Jaehyun did and he is the Korean #5.

I talked about it before. People have different perspectives because they believe certain things and refuse alternative explanations. 5 instead of 7 players from each association selected can mean MORE competition internally instead of LESS competition. Each association just wants to send their best representatives. You can disagree with this explanation. You can criticize the selection process. But you just cannot convince others simply by saying more CNT players so it is more difficult because now according to the draw, the winner did not meet all CNT players and because some CNT players were eliminated by non-CNT players.

 

[RidTheKid]

A hurting shoulder and a sprained ankle, sounds pretty even to me. I have a hurting shoulder as we speak and still play every now and then.

You make it sound like all injuries are the Same once you decide to play on.

 

[yoass]

This thread should be renamed to The Surrealist’s Guide to Table Tennis.

 

[RidTheKid]

A name as good as any I guess.

Though I find it funny that the majority (who silently adore ZJK and don't share their bias the way I and rain do) seems to believe that Ma Long has only been lucky in getting all his wins. He got them because everyone else are lousy at tt, the ball is invented and manufactured in Ma Longs basement.

This thread should be renamed to The Surrealist’s Guide to Table Tennis.

 

[rainneverever]

You get it wrong, all because ML is from hotpot gang. As the godfather of hotpot gang, LGL did not select ML for 2012 OG just because he could not help loving ZJK. Then he selected ZJK for 2016 OG to pave the road for ML. If you want to win WTTC, join hotpot gang for some 30k USD. If you have connections, it can be free of charge like DN did in 2017 and LSW did in 2019!

A name as good as any I guess.

Though I find it funny that the majority (who silently adore ZJK and don't share their bias the way I and rain do) seems to believe that Ma Long has only been lucky in getting all his wins. He got them because everyone else are lousy at tt, the ball is invented and manufactured in Ma Longs basement.

 

[ping fun]

A name as good as any I guess.

Though I find it funny that the majority (who silently adore ZJK and don't share their bias the way I and rain do) seems to believe that Ma Long has only been lucky in getting all his wins. He got them because everyone else are lousy at tt, the ball is invented and manufactured in Ma Longs basement.

As I told you are happy with your logics . Your reasons are enough for YOU but not for others . And by the chance others cant make good reasons ( Your thought ofcourse ) you are living in your world ridthekid with ma long beinhg G.O.A.T you 're not listening or thinking about others views . So be happy my friend if you are happy with this Haha

 

[NextLevel]

I talked about it before. People have different perspectives because they believe certain things and refuse alternative explanations. 5 instead of 7 players from each association selected can mean MORE competition internally instead of LESS competition. Each association just wants to send their best representatives. You can disagree with this explanation. You can criticize the selection process. But you just cannot convince others simply by saying more CNT players so it is more difficult because now according to the draw, the winner did not meet all CNT players and because some CNT players were eliminated by non-CNT players.

So you think the internal.competion aspect is the only dimension and not the fact that more players from better TT countries get to play? So you think that the Olympics tournament is harder to win because China has more internal competition and only gets 2 spots instead of 3? Same with Germany?

The tournament quality itself suffers. The players who would have gone still go. It is the players who may have medaled but don't get to go that suffer the most. But that is not about the the tournament itself.

 

[NextLevel]

A hurting shoulder and a sprained ankle, sounds pretty even to me. I have a hurting shoulder as we speak and still play every now and then.

Ever played with a lower back injury, which is the predominant injury that Zhang Jike had?

 

[NextLevel]

As I told you are happy with your logics . Your reasons are enough for YOU but not for others . And by the chance others cant make good reasons ( Your thought ofcourse ) you are living in your world ridthekid with ma long beinhg G.O.A.T you 're not listening or thinking about others views . So be happy my friend if you are happy with this Haha

Thanks. I thought it was just me. He makes my point for me every time. He just doesn't think someone can be as biased as he is about Ma Long for someone else.

 

[NextLevel]

"I did not see ML's post-match interview so he refused to talk." (Sorry to take NL as an example again, I know you found out it was not the case after I pointed it out)

"I did not hear ML whined about his injuries so he was NOT injured." (I really hope he is not injured and I am giving up to those people who just refuse facts.)

Well what about you? You claimed that ML said he lost to Wang Hao because of technique not because of mentality. Have you corrected yourself since Zeio has quoted otherwise?

Everyone makes mistakes. But some people own up to them.

 

[ping fun]

A hurting shoulder and a sprained ankle, sounds pretty even to me. I have a hurting shoulder as we speak and still play every now and then.

Haha .. ofcourse you can play but no one can play with shoulder injury or lower back injury that well in CNT level . Come on man haha I'm sure if ma long had shoulder injury the story were different and it was the toughest injury in the world .

 

[rainneverever]

So you think the internal.competion aspect is the only dimension and not the fact that more players from better TT countries get to play? So you think that the Olympics tournament is harder to win because China has more internal competition and only gets 2 spots instead of 3? Same with Germany?

The tournament quality itself suffers. The players who would have gone still go. It is the players who may have medaled but don't get to go that suffer the most. But that is not about the the tournament itself.

I said you can disagree but you have to listen to alternative thoughts. 2 instead of 3 CNT players to attend OG, 5 instead of 7 CNT players to attend WTTC, also means MORE pressure not losing to non-CNT players when you are the only CNT player in that half. And pressure can do what? Look at XX in 2019 WTTC.
And the winner of WTTC or OG does not meet EVERY top players no matter from CNT or not CNT because it is NOT round-robin system. You win at least 7 matches to win WTTC. You don't beat #1-7 seed to win WTTC, right?