Spinniest but fastest all-wood blade that you've tried.

[brokenball]

I have a Donic Defplay. It has a hollow handle. Normally I have LPs on one side. One time I replaced the LPs wither Reflectoid or GD Submarine ( inverted rubbers ). Then the head was too heavy relative to the handle. I didn't like the feel. I thought about putting some fishing weights in the handle but that would make the paddle heavier. I decided against it so I decided that if I want to put double inverted on both sides I should buy a paddle with a solid handle so it wouldn't feel head heavy. I restored LP to my Defplay so it wouldn't feel unbalanced and still be relatively light.

The question above about where the weight should be placed is a good one. I caught a lot of flak on mytt for saying that power tape is a fraud. I stand by that. This is irrefutable. The farther the weight is from the axis of rotation the more the inertia. It will take more torque to accelerate the extra weight. However, the extra inertia will not provide extra speed after contact. The same diminishing returns to adding weight applies here too.

There is no power in power tape. It is a fraud. Paddle don't have power. They can generate power if you burn them but the power comes from the player. The paddles have kinetic energy due to speed and potential energy due to elevation. They also have momentum when moving.
That is the way it is.

 

[Der_Echte]

Oh, one more detail.

Toss: If you watch the top pros, most of them start the ball near the mid-line of the table, and just behind the end-line. When they toss, the ball goes up at least to the height of their head, often considerably higher, and when it comes down it is pretty close to their right hip (so, the hip farther away from the table).

There are a few reasons for this:

1) If you throw perfectly straight up, then, either you have to throw from exactly where you want to contact, or you have to move to the ball which would considerably reduce the amount of power you can add from hips and legs.
2) It would be very awkward to hold the ball where you wanted to contact the ball and you would be accused of trying to hide the ball.
3) That point right near your right hip is where you can apply the most force into the ball with the action of a pendulum serve. If you are striking the ball somewhere else, you will not be maximizing power from the stroke through the racket into the ball.

Contacting the ball at this point is very close to contacting the ball behind your body (not quite but close) and does cause a lot of amateur players to complain about serves they think are illegal which are not illegal. The ball should be fully visible from the point where you will have most leverage on contact.

ALWAYS good to discuss serving.

When I show someone where to make the first bounce on a short serve, I use my hand and visually "Draw" on hte service side of table a wide circle covering from the first 1/4 of table by net to the 1/4 near end line.

That is a LARGE landing zone. WHY ?? It depends on how much forward velocity, how much (and what kind of) spin, and the height at which you impact the ball... so you can make that ball double bounce on other side with pretty much infinate combinations of those three. A higher toss makes it easier for me to spin, maybe another major factor.

For a certain baseline serve that is safe and easy to do spinny short, I impact ball higher than net, land it near mid table, and serve is moderately slow.

That is just one way to get it short out of so many.

 

[Der_Echte]

I don't care much about if my blade is head, handle or center balanced. When you get used to what you have, it will work for you.

But the tests Der and I did were honestly eye opening to me back when we did them.

I see somewhere BB says that head heavy makes it more difficult to create the inertia. I believe that. If we are talking about building racket speed with the wrist.

I believe that the weight low, or more weight near your bottom fingers REALLY helps if you are the kind of player that uses wrist and fingers to make whip on a spinny loop.

A good wrist wrip can also be made much easier with a more optimized handle for your hand that allows a much better fulcrum and lever with your fingers and fat part of your bottom hand.

Sergie Scoobie Doo had a bat taped a certain way, I held it in my hands and KNEW instantly, it would spin well, and it did.

Local legend James T got a blade from BBC (Charlie) of Damned BALSA (Do not like balsa at all), but I held it in my hand it is was the best ST handle I had felt in my life, so I knew I could spin it. Sight unseen, never used his FH rubber before, I took his bat and spun the crap outta that ball he was amazed what I did with his bat.

An arguement FOR the top heavy is if you use a long arm anchored with shoulder and a LOT of forearm snap, then the extra few grams a few cm out isn't gunna stop you from an explosively fast Kraken shot if that is how you bang it, ala Wang Liqin in the 2000s - the shot that ruled a decade.

Another arguement for this is that the mass of your arm will CHANGE a LOT MORE than a few grams every HOUR and that those extra grams on that WLQ FH blast is practically nothing.

 

[Tango K]

The spinniest and fastest all-word thread that you’ve read

 

[thomas.pong]

The spinniest and fastest all-word thread that you’ve read

They are a couple layers of pics in there, so it's not all-word. ; )

50000 + 2

 

[nymose]

They are a couple layers of pics in there, so it's not all-word. ; )

50000 + 2

There're also some numbers here and there [emoji848][emoji4]

Sendt fra min SM-A202F med Tapatalk

 

[IB66]

Thoughts on the below please guys!!

whilst comparing a couple of rubbers this afternoon, I was doing a rebound comparison.
Robot speed was set at 22, which is fairly fast.
bat was held still, no movement, and angle maintained so the ball could hit the rubber and just bounce off.
I was watching to see how far up the table the balls bounced.

Now, what I found was that, for both blades/rubbers the distance changed depending on how tightly I held the bat. Which was expected, but not really how I expected!!

harder grip, lower throw, less distance, lower bounce

loose grip, higher throw, more distance. Higher bounce.

 

[Tango K]

Who would have thought this thread couldn’t get spinnier in your head

That’s just how the touch works. When you soft touch the ball (loose grip), you kill the speed, you “eat” the spin. So the spin creates the throw (again, it’s all a relation between spin & speed). When you make a hard block, you return the speed. That’s how a very hard hit can kill the spin. Also that’s why it’s very difficult to train a beginner to do a proper block (which is supposed to be soft). It’s just much easier for them to smash back your loop.

 

[IB66]

Who would have thought this thread couldn’t get spinnier in your head

That’s just how the touch works. When you soft touch the ball (loose grip), you kill the speed, you “eat” the spin. So the spin creates the throw (again, it’s all a relation between spin & speed). When you make a hard block, you return the speed. That’s how a very hard hit can kill the spin. Also that’s why it’s very difficult to train a beginner to do a proper block (which is supposed to be soft). It’s just much easier for them to smash back your loop.

Loose grip didn’t kill the speed!!! Harder grip did!!! That’s what ‘s strange!!

 

[Tango K]

It’s hard to say without seeing. But I guess
Either (1) When you hold it hard, you sort of pull it back at the moment of contact without knowing it. A lot of people block this way. It’s like an “accidental” drop shot. You do it by a slight movement of the wrist which flexes the bat head.
Or (2) when the ball doesn’t have spin, it won’t travel very far as it takes the air head on. It’s fast but its speed tends to drop faster than with spin (which is why a flat hit, particularly short-pip hit, tend to look like it suddenly drops off in the air).
Or (3) you forgot to take off the film on the rubbers Joking! Something that I’m not aware of that this thread’s participants can explain.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Loose grip didn’t kill the speed!!! Harder grip did!!! That’s what ‘s strange!!

It is hard to say what you are actually doing in the test without seeing it. Like if, when you grip tighter you lose a little control of the blade face and it moves a little, that could seriously affect the quality of contact.

You would likely be better served putting the blade into a clamp and clamping tightly for one set. And then clamping a little less tightly with something like a towel around the blade handle to help mirror softer grip. The tricky part would be to get the same racket angle. But filming it would also be valuable rather than it being anecdotal "evidence".

 

[IB66]

It is hard to say what you are actually doing in the test without seeing it. Like if, when you grip tighter you lose a little control of the blade face and it moves a little, that could seriously affect the quality of contact.

You would likely be better served putting the blade into a clamp and clamping tightly for one set. And then clamping a little less tightly with something like a towel around the blade handle to help mirror softer grip. The tricky part would be to get the same racket angle. But filming it would also be valuable rather than it being anecdotal "evidence".

Thats the way my train of thought was going as well !! My Dad is a retired carpenter, somewhere hidden in the garage there’s a range of clamps, so if I can get my head round having a clear out I’ll see what I can do !!! Don’t hold your breath though!!

 

[brokenball]

People are not calibrated machines.
I like USDC's suggestion that the test be conducted with a paddle in a vice without padding and a paddle in a vice with padding to absorb some of the energy from impact.

TT forums are full of opinions and they stink like arm pits and a$$ holes.
This is why I have a high speed camera that is capable of 38,000 FPS under ideal conditions.
2000 FPS is easy.

You guys don't know how many times a customer swears they see something and yet we can prove what they are seeing is not correct using high speed data acquisition devices.

You guys would still be arguing about dwell times if it weren't for my high speed videos as poor as they are. USDC knows and have seen much better clearer high speed videos and in color with my new equipment.

But back on topic.
It seems that no one has paid attention to my brushing argument. You have only so much arm or paddle speed. You can hit through the ball for speed or brush for more spin at the expense of speed. More skillful players can swing faster and more precisely so they will be able to have more variation on the spin to speed ratio. I fail to see what is confusing about this.

 

[Tango K]

People are not calibrated machines.
I like USDC's suggestion that the test be conducted with a paddle in a vice without padding and a paddle in a vice with padding to absorb some of the energy from impact.

TT forums are full of opinions and they stink like arm pits and a$$ holes.
This is why I have a high speed camera that is capable of 38,000 FPS under ideal conditions.
2000 FPS is easy.

You guys don't know how many times a customer swears they see something and yet we can prove what they are seeing is not correct using high speed data acquisition devices.

You guys would still be arguing about dwell times if it weren't for my high speed videos as poor as they are. USDC knows and have seen much better clearer high speed videos and in color with my new equipment.

Sometimes words are used scientifically and sometimes figuratively People may use scientific words to describe feeling, for the lack of, uhm, words Like “I feel a longer dwell” instead of “I feel the lower frequency vibration” (Don’t count my example seriously. I’m not very good at both stuff)

But back on topic.
It seems that no one has paid attention to my brushing argument. You have only so much arm or paddle speed. You can hit through the ball for speed or brush for more spin at the expense of speed. More skillful players can swing faster and more precisely so they will be able to have more variation on the spin to speed ratio. I fail to see what is confusing about this.

What is confusing about this??? I thought that would be obvious for everyone. In practise however, for spin, you have to sacrifice even more. Since it needs very precise contact and is very sensitive to be overpowered (as direct hit has much more effect to the ball than brushing), you have to take a lot of power off for that contact.

Another thing to the point, we humans feel things in relative terms. For example, we tend to say “spinny” generally without discerning between absolute spin and spin/speed ratio. A ball may have a quite decent amount of spin but speed may dwarf it, practically making it a speedy ball.

 

[NextLevel]

This.

Another thing to the point, we humans feel things in relative terms. For example, we tend to say “spinny” generally without discerning between absolute spin and spin/speed ratio. A ball may have a quite decent amount of spin but speed may dwarf it, practically making it a speedy ball.

 

[brokenball]

My job is motion control and force control.
I know what people think they see or feel is often not real.
People are not calibrated machines.
Thinking you are getting more spin when you really aren't is not going to change reality.

 

[Haito]

My job is motion control and force control.
I know what people think they see or feel is often not real.
People are not calibrated machines.
Thinking you are getting more spin when you really aren't is not going to change reality.

Agreed. I think that good enough metric of your spin is how your opponent (or his or hers bat) react to it.

 

[Karofi]

Darker Speed 90 (103g) & Darker Imperial for me. Both are 1-ply

why I can't find Darker Imperial on Darker catalog 2020 ?

 

[PushSmasher]

why I can't find Darker Imperial on Darker catalog 2020 ?

I found the Japanese catalog on darker.co.jp, but is there an English version available?

TableTennis11 sells the Imperial, and I’ve seen it advertised by a couple of other TT stores.

 

[yogi_bear]

It is something to ponder that players in China are encouraged to use blades above 90 grams. A manufacturer even asked me why we order blades that are below 90 grams whereas players in China prefer above 90 grams with some younger players even using 93 to 95 grams. If there is no such thing as a difference in performance between light and heavy blades of the model then maybe the Chinese players do not know effeciency or when you are trained, heavier blades give you better stability in blocking and enables you to hit harder.