Rainer87 matchvideo

[Rainer87]

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I had really busy weekend playing table tennis, we didnt do special training for service, but we practiced FH and BH counter and loop, I paid special attention to service as well. One thing is for sure, I must start practicing my service more, because at the moment I am not giving it enough attention. You guys have given me enough pointers for developing a good service, I have all summer for it. After every no and then I can come back to this thread and read your comments to recall your pointers.

I will add two more videos from my FH and BH loop training. During BH loop exercise I had to counterhit the block with FH, but I missed too many of them. I watched videos many times and I cant really figure it out what I am doing wrong. Two thing what I noticed: 1. Is it that I am dropping my hand too much before starting to hit; 2. Is it that I am note moving straight forward during the hit, but more two the side?

With the FH loop I think I need to transfer more my weight from right leg to left, I did that really well in second service with the fifth loop (about at the 14-15 seconds), what you guys think?

I think I will add next videos in september, because I need to spend now more time practising than spending time in forum .

 

[blahness]

Love your BH opening loop, it's so fluid and natural(and spinny too!), keep it up! I think you're kinda slapping the ball on your FH on the first video like PingPongPom here(a famous slapper here on this forum) which I think can be really great but you're probably better off with a loop instead of a counterhit, since you're a looper. if not you can probably borrow the incoming topspin of the block and do a close-to-table "carry" which is probably a bit more consistent than a counterhit(it can be equally as dangerous too!) For some reason thick inverted rubbers don't really hit well for me too especially against strong topspin balls.

I think your FH looks pretty fine to me, probably need some training in finding the best position to loop(probably the hardest part of consistent looping!). A useful tip might be to use your right leg to "find" the ball, but this would probably take many hours of training to master the delicate positioning and timing required. Your opening FH loop is beautiful but the follow-up is sometimes not in the best position. Keep focusing on maintaining good form in your loops at all times.

My level is definitely below yours so take all i say with a grain of salt. You might be able to give me some constructive criticism on my training videos too!

 

[Rainer87]

You are right about me being better at looping than hitting, that was the reason I tried hitting the 5th ball instead of looping it. alexis92130 at youtube just uploaded Quentin Robinot trainingvideo

and he was looping 5th ball with FH instead of hitting it. I think looping is easier than hitting and maybe I should be looping 5th ball as well. His 5th ball FH has good weight transition what I dont have and this seems the thing I should be consentrating on my FH like I already mentioned about my FH loop video. When watching pro`s then they are looping most of the balls, they are hitting or smashing only very high balls, so maybe looping the block is the only right way, ofcourse when it is not very high?

I have worked alot on my BH loop technique this year and I am quite pleased with it, now I need to keep practising, so I can keep the same technique also during the matches. In matches, I quite often loose my technique, because I am rushing too much and not consentrating on my technique. I need to develope my technique to that level, where I dont have to think about it and it comes naturally.

I have learned alot about TT technical aspects over here and because of this I could give you some pointers as well, but like you I am beginner as well.

 

[strangeloop]

Hey Rainer87.. Nice work man! Keep going!

Difficult to judge too much from 3-4 counterhits. But yes, you should raise your shoulder when counterhitting/finishing. If you are used to hitting many loops, then your shoulders drop to ready position for another loop. You can try this drill to practise... serve backspin and ask partner to deep push to forehand. Step back and loop. Partner blocks to FH. Step in and play a counter. Both crosscourt. This will improve your in and out footwork as well.

You could also ask him to receive to your backhand corner. Push it short to BH. Partner pushes deep to BH. Step around your BH and loop crosscourt followed by counter to the middle(elbow) or down the line. Thanks for your question and the video.. Reminds me to do these drills again. Even I have a tendency to loop high balls.

 

[Rainer87]

Hi Strangeloop! Thanks for your comments! I remember actually doing this exercise before, where you step in and counterhit and step out and loop, thanks for reminding me this, this is good one.

I definitely feel more comfortable looping, also I am more consistent with it. Some players at the competition have told me, that after few loops I should try to smash ball for a winner. Usually the ones who are saying this are very good at smashing, but I am looper, so what I should do? Keep looping or try to smash some as well? I am not talking about high balls, just regular ones what are coming back from the block. Because people have told me to smash more often, I tried this out at practice. Your advice?

 

[blahness]

Hi Rainer, you really should see a few of this videos.

at 2:50
Notice the recovery process(it's straight down instead of back the original way, helps you to relax and time the next shot a bit better)

Look at how he relaxes and makes this awesome relaxed smooth anticlockwise motion(almost 180 degrees) with no jagged motions at all (i.e. the blade angle remains pretty consistent). It seems that in inverted shots it's hard to really hit the ball straight on with consistency. But if you're brushing the ball you gain much more consistency.

Loops do not always have to be taken at the top of the bounce or even when it's falling down, you can loop close-to-table catching the ball early on the rise. Also by changing the trajectory of your stroke, (instead of down-to-up try going straight forward). I recommend that you do a powerloop instead of a smash it's more consistent for loopers and it's not necessarily slower.

 

[blahness]

Also look at this match. And how smooth the circle is, it's almost like doing a smooth 270 degree motion with your bat. He is basically just changing the trajectory for each shot. It's not so much forwards-backwards as everybody makes it sound.

 

[strangeloop]

I am also in a similar situation as you.. I don't have a good/reliable smash. So I keep looping.. I suppose it depends on where the blocker is. If he is blocking far from the table, then I loop as it dips more and is not so easy to return effectively. Then I get a weak high ball to smash. I guess it all depends on the level of opposition as well.. If he is blocking close to the table, then I look to vary placement and speed of my loops. However, I manage to pull all this off only in practice. In matches, after hitting one loop, I get tensed and try to finish the point immediately, mostly with poor results.

I asked the same question to my coach once.. He said, "Loop or smash.. do what you feel confident with. It's all about putting one more ball on the table to set the point up in your favor. For a beginner level, it's important to develop a consistent loop.. So keep looping for now.. Smashing on a weak block will come naturally later on. It's after all just a quick counter with a short swing."

 

[Der_Echte]

Rainer, on the vid with your BH opener and Fh finish of the opponent's block... It is obvious that you are not expecting the block to come towards your body. every time the block comes there, you do not pivot your right foot back to open the stance more or slide to the FH corner a bit to put the ball in your strike zone. You missed every one of those. you are not moving on those balls to your body and it seems like you are not expecting the block to come back there.

When your partner blocked to your FH and made you move 1/4 to 1/2 meter, you did a quick side shuffle step, got in a good position, and made a strong shot each time. those shots looked great and would be a strong point winner in a game and what I was asking you to do after your latest match vids. Finishing the block is a very easy thing to do and you get that ball in match play at your level when you make a spinny BH opener like you do.

Look at your feet position and how you do not move on hte balls hit to your body. you do not have an open stance.

On the balls hit to your FH, your feet are still parallel to the table, but in relation to the direction of the ball, your body is open enough to use shoulder, hip, arm, and wrist explosion on your swing and it was always a good result when you used a small side step and hit for power to finish.

Remember what you did right and keep up those nice anticipation and position to dip down for teh BH openers you do nicely.

Work on doing a better job of reacting to the ball coming at your body. Use a pivot or side step to FH corner to finish those. Have your partner hit some to your body and you are expecting it, so you move. Do that drill a lot and mix in random block drill like your partner did in the vid to work your anticipation or reaction better. The partner's block of your spinny BH loop usually results in a slow, light topspin ball that gives you a lot of time if you move soon.

 

[Der_Echte]

On your FH continuing loop attack vid clip, you seem to do an OK job of continuing the attack without having a nuetral or slightly FH oriented stance. Usually it is very difficult to hit more than one or two strong FHs from such a position, usually results in a miss down the line soon enough. if you can learn to make a more open stance by gettting your right foot more behind you, then you will be able to transfer that nice energy you have into the shot even better. You are getting by well enough using the nice abdominal strength you have, but you will be much more consistent and powerful if you get your right foot behind you more. It takes a lot of concentration, comittment, feedback, and practice to do this consistantly and even many USA 2000 level advanced players do not do a good job of this.

Work on bouncing after the shot and rotating right leg and foot back a little more, then focus on taking the ball a little later, (a little, not a lot, you want to hit on your side, but your NEW side is now a little more deep now you have opened the stance a bit) which will put it in the strike zone of a newly opened stance. As you impact ball, follow through and as your rebound back, hop and twist open again wher you need to be and do another small hop to correct position.

 

[Der_Echte]

The advantage of having your feet positioned like you have even and parellel, is that you are more ready to make a small move into a position and execute a BH opener. Once you make that slow opener, you have a lot of time to bounce back into a FH friendlier stance, which will help your power and consistancy a LOT.

So what if you make hte FH opener from the BH friendly position, as long as you can make hte first FH land with high percentage and enough quality to get you a block. you can then transition into a more open and FH friendly stance to make it easier to hit with more spin, power, and control. it lets you use more of your body with better cordination and timing.

So... practice making your first FH from whatever position you think you can maintain in a match, whether that is your prefered BH froendly position, or whatever it is, just make be ready and able to make that first FH opener land. if you landed it shallow or very deep, you will at your level likely get a slow, light topspin block back, which gives you a lot of time to bounce into a more open stance that allows you to add more pressure or a finish.

That is what I was trying to tell you earlier that your BH opener gives you a chance to turn on the block and hit for power as the block is usually high enough to hit for power, instead of continuing controlled FH looping. You get those high balls, you can turn them into points, you have to be ready to move in and finish them. If you can get that same ball with a FH opener, great. Train for that too if you find your match opponents giving you that kind of ball from a FH opener.

Keep up your training and keep telling us how it goes.

 

[Der_Echte]

Another thing many beginning players do is forget the correct swing plane on the block. When opening vs an cut underspin ball, you have to get down, (drop bat shoulder on opener) and explode up with the swing, but the block is another animal as you have to move forward, rotate shoulders, and explode forward. If you keep your racket at least net or higher after you open, you will tend to rotate shoulders and go forward more often than not. You seemed to be doing that, but on your BH opener and FH finish drill, you were reacting to the ball hit at your body WAY too late and it affected everything you could do wrong to miss the shot. Many players drop that shoulder again on hte shot vs the block and it is a recipe for a missed shot, while your opponent laughs his ass of as he goes to add another point to his score.

 

[JustAlt]

Der_Echte pretty much said it all but I would like to add that after your opening backhand loop you don't really recover to neutral position before the ball is allready coming back at you.

 

[Rainer87]

Again spot on comments Der_Echte, thanks!

You are right about BH loop FH finish drill. I expected the ball to the wide FH, so I could make quicke sidestep, take ready positition and and finish the shot. Most of the balls came to the middle of the table and like you said, that was the reason why I was late.Still I would have wanted to finish those shots better, I quess I have to be ready for them better next time. Being in ready position is the most important thing and this is what I must work on, also changing my stance to more FH oriented position like you mentioned.

You are right about stance, I am to much BH oriented, legs too much parallel to each other, left leg infront and right leg back. On few shots I was actually doing this, like on my FH clip at the second serve and 5th loop, all loops should be like that, ok legs still too much parallel.

I will keep up my training and also keep recording them, I will keep you updated.

 

[Rainer87]

Der_Echte pretty much said it all but I would like to add that after your opening backhand loop you don't really recover to neutral position before the ball is allready coming back at you.

That`s true as well, I quess I am looking too much at shot, i should be focusing already on next one and recover faster to neutral position. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

[Rainer87]

I was looking my latest trainingmatchvideo and part about legs too parallel is SO TRUE. I can see that when legs parallel I am locked in BH oriented position and when ball is coming to FH then I cant execute correct FH stroke because of that.
I will go to practice today and pay special attention to this.

 

[strangeloop]

Very good comments from Der_Echte.. Thanks!

 

[Der_Echte]

Rainer, if your legs are parallel when you get a BH ball, no big deal, but practice making that nice BH opener you have by doing the BH loop and during your stroke recovery, bounce up and open the stance mid-air as you hop into position. it will be ackward at first and you will miss more ball than you are already missing now, but later down the road, you will be a beast.

In strageloops "How many Loops?" thread, I posted a 51 part checklist I made in another forum that might interest you.
'

 

[Rainer87]

Rainer, if your legs are parallel when you get a BH ball, no big deal, but practice making that nice BH opener you have by doing the BH loop and during your stroke recovery, bounce up and open the stance mid-air as you hop into position. it will be ackward at first and you will miss more ball than you are already missing now, but later down the road, you will be a beast.

In strageloops "How many Loops?" thread, I posted a 51 part checklist I made in another forum that might interest you.
'

So true about consistency. I did that exercise with FH only and I was trying to pivot more with legs and also be more in FH stance not parallel like I am normally.
My consistency was very low and I felt like crying. I understood that it cant work right away, I must give myself time to adjust and be patient. Positive was, that I felt that there was more power in my loops and my partner had hard time blocking them when I got them on the table. Also later at home when watching my technique on video, then I was quite pleased with what I saw.

I will go check out your list as well. Thanks again!

 

[Rainer87]

Small update. I was trying to do that Bh FH drill again with defferent partner, but he also failed to block to my FH and I could not try it out very much.
My Bh consistency was good, I counted 54 on table out of 77, that`s 70%. I think my stance should be lower and then maintain that low stance while going to FH, I stand to high up after BH. I was trying to be more on FH stance while hitting FH and pivot with legs. Unfortunately I didnt get many chances hitting Fh and I practiced FH with robot yesterday:

In the second exercise I was trying to do backhand attack or punch, but I failed with technique, later at home I check what I should be doing and found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UFWTcrQvWr8#t=49s
According to this video, I should have started my stroke higher up and bat close to the body and from there explode forward with hand and wrist, I will try the correct way next time.
Looping with Bh against underspin was very diffcult against robot, because it produced very heavy spin and I had to loop hard and my consistency wasnt very good and technique maybe as well.
With FH I tried heavy looping as well and paid attention to hip rotation and pivoting legs.