Please Explain this FH video instruction (especially korean guys)

[Dominikk85]

Does anyone especially one who speaks Korean what this guy here means? You the bat angle turn more closed during a loop stroke? Is this good instruction?
https://youtube.com/shorts/CbVjElJqp48?feature=share

 

[Der_Echte]

vid not working. try again.

 

[LDM7]

vid not working. try again

https://youtube.com/shorts/CbVjElJqp48?feature=share

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Does anyone especially one who speaks Korean what this guy here means? You the bat angle turn more closed during a loop stroke? Is this good instruction?
https://youtube.com/shorts/CbVjElJqp48?feature=share

Something worth noting, what he shows when he is not hitting the ball and what he does when he does hit the ball are absolutely not related.

His loop is good. Perhaps he is presenting something that is more or less a metaphor but it definitely not the reality of how he is meeting the ball.

A long time ago, like the 1970s and 80s, people did loop like his pre-hitting demo. I remember one older Chinese guy saying to me ages ago "like a rainbow", meaning to arc around the ball with the racket so your stroke was a curved shape. Any modern analysis of technique would explain to you why that would cause you to loose a heck of a lot of power.

 

[Dominikk85]

vid not working. try again.

Here it is
https://youtube.com/shorts/CbVjElJqp48?feature=share
What is he saying?

 

[Dominikk85]

Something worth noting, what he shows when he is not hitting the ball and what he does when he does hit the ball are absolutely not related.

His loop is good. Perhaps he is presenting something that is more or less a metaphor but it definitely not the reality of how he is meeting the ball.

A long time ago, like the 1970s and 80s, people did loop like his pre-hitting demo. I remember one older Chinese guy saying to me ages ago "like a rainbow", meaning to arc around the ball with the racket so your stroke was a curved shape. Any modern analysis of technique would explain to you why that would cause you to loose a heck of a lot of power.

So bat angle should stay constant and not wrap over the ball?

 

[Der_Echte]

His speech is cut off before he finishes his sentence, but he is saying the hand turns like this... (demonstrates a rotation of hand and forearm)

This the coach of Park PD you see in all of that dude's vids.

 

[Dominikk85]

Is that a jpen specific move maybe?

 

[Der_Echte]

Well, that channel is all J-Pen all the time and all you see in that club is J-Pen players going at it...

Interesting, but understandable, even ten years ago J-Pen players were maybe 15 percent of all players, but at least 1/3 of all Div 1 players.

Before the new system, Park PD was an Open Div 4 player, which is under-rated for his skills, but he would STILL get waxed in a national open tourney before the round of 64 if he even made it out of group stage. Open Div 4 national is one of the most, if not THE most ringer filled division. The top tier of Div 4 is filled with players who would win vs 50%+ of Div 2 no handicap in those larger national open tourneys.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

If I was you, I would just do massive volume of FH practice. Video of specific direction to change things that is not from a coach watching YOU and specific to you may be beside the point for you.

And do you think your timing is good enough to meet the ball with the blade facing the ball and turn the racket so the blade/rubber go over the top of the ball while you are contacting the ball when the ball is on the blade face for perhaps 0.5-1 MicroSeconds? Would trying this cause your bat speed to slow down? If you are trying to have the fastest bat speed possible, you would probably not want to be thinking consciously about something like contacting the back and rolling over the top of the ball. Just my opinion.

But all the modern technique videos from high level players seem to indicate the blade face staying in one plain during the stroke. The idea is, the faster the blade face is moving when you contact, the more you can make the ball go faster and/or spin faster. Racket speed is what would accomplish either/or/both depending on how you touch the ball.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

unfotunately, that ‘wrap around idea is based on false interpretation.
You will probably be familiar with players executing step around fh from bh corner seeming to (fall away to the left” making it look as though the swing curves around the ball.
In fact though, as the weight is thrown forward, when the left foot hits the ground this causes the swing to be diverted to the side (after the ball is gone) so as to allow the swing to end without tearing muscles etc .
If you triyto alter the racket angle during contact things get screwed up
imo
carls advice is worth following

 

[Lycanthrope]

I don't know Korean, but apparently he is demonstrating attacking a half-long ball. The ball is just out of table that you can't fully rotate your body to loop but you will have to brush the ball up and you will want to keep the trajectory low.

In comparing with a normal FH loop, we don't thin brush the ball up in doing normal FH loop but just hit the ball solidly.

 

[NextLevel]

Something worth noting, what he shows when he is not hitting the ball and what he does when he does hit the ball are absolutely not related.

His loop is good. Perhaps he is presenting something that is more or less a metaphor but it definitely not the reality of how he is meeting the ball.

A long time ago, like the 1970s and 80s, people did loop like his pre-hitting demo. I remember one older Chinese guy saying to me ages ago "like a rainbow", meaning to arc around the ball with the racket so your stroke was a curved shape. Any modern analysis of technique would explain to you why that would cause you to loose a heck of a lot of power.

I would very much disagree with you, but that is neither here nor there. So might this guy:

 

[NextLevel]

His speech is cut off before he finishes his sentence, but he is saying the hand turns like this... (demonstrates a rotation of hand and forearm)

This the coach of Park PD you see in all of that dude's vids.

It is very much standard supination/pronation for relaxed spin in TT. Not everyone does, again some people would argue it is completely useless or not worth discussing in the context of much more important things like using the body/legs etc. But either because of ligament laxity or joint damage or just pure flexibility, I have always left my wrists loose enough to loop that way. and I got better results than when I felt I Was going "straight into the ball" so to speak.

 

[Der_Echte]

I stayed strictly in the lanes of answering what coach said, even if it was cut off before and after. I know how everyone would debate this and I wasn't interested.

I don't think I go exactly totally straight line to ball either, but it isn't so pronounced. I would agree trying to change too much in the swing can jack stuff up.

One thing I ALWAYS hear Korean pro coaches say is to strike the ball in the middle of the bat. (They mean middle of sweet spot) They want the player to avoid the bat "Shaking" at impact, which would give an unintended flight path. That makes a lot of sense to me. You would want to be stable.

That is also a reason why I insist on a solid, heavy bat. It feels much more stable to me, especially when I have to impact a strong energy incoming ball. It just feels like I can handle it better than with a super light bat.

 

[Der_Echte]

I don't know Korean, but apparently he is demonstrating attacking a half-long ball. The ball is just out of table that you can't fully rotate your body to loop but you will have to brush the ball up and you will want to keep the trajectory low.

In comparing with a normal FH loop, we don't thin brush the ball up in doing normal FH loop but just hit the ball solidly.

Yes, LT, this is why I wished there was more before and after what was on the short. I would want to know context and any further specific things he said. There was some mumbling and one half sentence said.

One could take such a short from any KJH vid I gist and say KJH is doing it totally backwards and should not show it... but in an isolated cut-out short in the exact moment KJH is purposely demonstrating it wrong (to show what amateur players are doing) and if only that is in the short, then someone might think KJH was doing the TT world wrong, when he was showing context of what amateurs do wrong, so one could understand it and avoid it. It is almost like a mis-quote such a thing possible.

 

[Der_Echte]

Listening to the possible context presented by LT, it would make sense to get down low, swing up, then more forward before impact. After all, there is a table in the way. Turning the wrist in a natural way using not full power seems doable enough.

I give halflong balls to people I train and advocate to let the ball drop (to give one a little more horizontal space so your swing doesn't hit the table). Another good thing about that is that it forces you to get hips down and that makes good leverage and you see the ball better... and you tend to strike it in your impact zone, instead of too far in front no leverage no control too far in front.

 

[Der_Echte]

I just dry-hit a few shadow strokes on this and I see that I adjust at the end to go forward NOT by rotating my arm like coach shows in the short... my natural way is to rotate the upper arm clockwise with elbow and shoulder joint relative stable... so upper arm bone twists clockwise (the bone is pretty much vertical) a bit pivoting on shoulder joint.

The use of joints is also a big debate question. I see players declare up and down their high level coach told them to make a big backward rotation of the waist to get power for forehand when taking a step to a ball on FH or little wide FH... where I advocate for a step more parallel to the table with toes pointed to wide FH direction with arm just hanging down to side cocked a little.. I plant foot with a tiny dip down with waist (like a few inches) and since with toes are pointing that way (to outside FH), hip is ALREADY in an open position, so I need zero backswing... I just plant and push off with foot and torque into the ball for my power shot or high spin shot. I get full use and leverage of my leg and waist that way.

I believe that is one way to pre-load the hips and leg without big movement and it can be done in a hurry.

If you ever see me on a vid doing this, you would wonder how I generated ANY power without a backswing or huge waist and shoulder turn. Personally, when going to a ball on wide FH I find turning shoulders and waist in that situation biomechanically fighting against myself.

 

[NextLevel]

DerEchte, he is rotating his upper arm. Sometimes, the problem is with what you are looking at, not with what the person is doing. Because the angle is changing when we look at it, we can assume things he may not be doing. But he is rotating around the axis of his upper arm

Is it something special or important? Not really. But it doesnt prevent you from swinging fast and hard at the ball. That is my main point.

 

[JediJesseS]

I'm starting to think this has to do with feeling and not anything that is actually applied to the ball. Whenever I watch slow video the ball is long gone off the rubber by the time any of this movement is happening. It may make a positive mental contribution?