Dimitrij Ovtcharov Uses Pre-Made Bat vs TableTennisDaily's Dan!

[OldUser]

Also from the chess player I am, I've seen countless of 2400 IM guys beat 2500 GM ones, even 2200 Fide masters beat 2400 IM. But a FIDE top 40 guy ranked 2700 ELO stands no chance vs the top 10, the legendary Viswanathan Anand is ranked FIDE n°9 with 2747 ELO. This is the thing with the ELO system, as it is not inflationist, tens of points are hundreds of actual difference in levels in the 2500-2600 zone.

 

[thomas.pong]

Craig Bryant would play the same level as Tom and maybe Pro B, for sure, but the USATT ranking means nothing at the 2500 point: it's an ELO based system, Kanak Jha is "only" 2794 for example, and in the top 20/25 in the world rankings. That's why inflationist systems like the french one do for a better representation of players' levels.

For example most of the people at the Westchester '22 August tournament were thinking Andrew Baggaley would easily win over Enzo Angles, because the rankings were close. fact is: Baggaley had no chance, Angles is a seasoned pro A player in the world top 100, younger and he was ranked only 2657, only 57 points over Baggaley. seems nothing, but it's actually huge, hence the 4-0 result at the end. At the 2500 mark in the USATT ELO system, tens of points are actually equivalent to hundreds of points under the 2500 mark.

Actually, I don't know if it's the same guy, but the last ranking I've found for Dan is TTE 212 in 2020, probably equivalent to N600/700 in France, and Thomas will correct me if I'm wrong but this allows you to be hired in a nationale 2 team here, tier 4 league, so I'm perfectly fine with my affirmation.


On the same note, Enzo Angles would have no chance vs Kanak Jah, 140 pts is even more huge at that point.

But that's also the problem with USATT: few pros and too much gap between pros and strong amateurs, there's a kind of no man's land at 2500 pts.

Enzo could beat Kanak at least from time to time.

 

[dingyibvs]

Craig Bryant would play the same level as Tom and maybe Pro B, for sure, but the USATT ranking means nothing at the 2500 point: it's an ELO based system, Kanak Jha is "only" 2794 for example, and in the top 20/25 in the world rankings. That's why inflationist systems like the french one do for a better representation of players' levels.

For example most of the people at the Westchester '22 August tournament were thinking Andrew Baggaley would easily win over Enzo Angles, because the rankings were close. fact is: Baggaley had no chance, Angles is a seasoned pro A player in the world top 100, younger and he was ranked only 2657, only 57 points over Baggaley. seems nothing, but it's actually huge, hence the 4-0 result at the end. At the 2500 mark in the USATT ELO system, tens of points are actually equivalent to hundreds of points under the 2500 mark.

Actually, I don't know if it's the same guy, but the last ranking I've found for Dan is TTE 212 in 2020, probably equivalent to N600/700 in France, and Thomas will correct me if I'm wrong but this allows you to be hired in a nationale 2 team here, tier 4 league, so I'm perfectly fine with my affirmation.


On the same note, Enzo Angles would have no chance vs Kanak Jah, 140 pts is even more huge at that point.

But that's also the problem with USATT: few pros and too much gap between pros and strong amateurs, there's a kind of no man's land at 2500 pts.

OK, that's a lot of tangential talk. Let's stick to the argument at hand. Craig Bryant is 2400, he lost to a 2400 and a 2300 player. He's probably better than Dan. Yet you feel affirmed that Dan should be 2500-2600? How do you reconcile that?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

OK, that's a lot of tangential talk. Let's stick to the argument at hand. Craig Bryant is 2400, he lost to a 2400 and a 2300 player. He's probably better than Dan. Yet you feel affirmed that Dan should be 2500-2600? How do you reconcile that?

I don't see Dan as 2500+
I would agree 2300~2400.

Also note, when a 2400 plays against a world number 1 in Dima. It makes you look like 1400 and not 2400.

I also need to note (in my other thread), how many provincial players are there in China? There are thousands.
So ex provincial player could be 2300~2800, the range is vast.
Many of them in the US are 2500+

Dan could be 2500, because against a Chinese provincial player at 2500 for example, I would bet on the Chinese player winning.

These high level players are difficult to justify by numbers.
It could be a style of play or nemesis in question too or at critical moments, BMT, or match play experience.

I know a 2200 or so level player - long pip chop blocker.
Goes to US and beat 2500/2600 players.
She end up getting a 2500 rating or so.... very over rated in level, but she did beat 2500 and 2600 players due to her style. Or rather the opponent was rated very low against such style and would only be 2500/2600 against more traditional attacking styles.

 

[thomas.pong]

I don't see Dan as 2500+
I would agree 2300~2400.

Also note, when a 2400 plays against a world number 1 in Dima. It makes you look like 1400 and not 2400.

I also need to note (in my other thread), how many provincial players are there in China? There are thousands.
So ex provincial player could be 2300~2800, the range is vast.
Many of them in the US are 2500+

Dan could be 2500, because against a Chinese provincial player at 2500 for example, I would bet on the Chinese player winning.

These high level players are difficult to justify by numbers.
It could be a style of play or nemesis in question too or at critical moments, BMT, or match play experience.

I know a 2200 or so level player - long pip chop blocker.
Goes to US and beat 2500/2600 players.
She end up getting a 2500 rating or so.... very over rated in level, but she did beat 2500 and 2600 players due to her style. Or rather the opponent was rated very low against such style and would only be 2500/2600 against more traditional attacking styles.

Totally agree.

And I've seen Provincial players who moved to the US ranging from 2300 to 2800 indeed.

Dan reminds me of several players I've seen in France and in the US in the USATT 2300-2400 range in terms of skills and consistency. 2500 starts to be quite insane and another level resembling the pros.

 

[TensorBackhand]

He seems really consistent to me and is able to hit really advanced shots like counter-loops

 

[thomas.pong]

He seems really consistent to me and is able to hit really advanced shots like counter-loops

Everyone agrees, he's very stable in all advanced shots. That's the case for all 2300+ players.

Now take this at very high speeds and you've got a 2500+ offensive player.

 

[dingyibvs]

He seems really consistent to me and is able to hit really advanced shots like counter-loops

He is pretty consistent and has a well rounded game, but I think if you watch a lot of his highlights instead of his full games it might give you a false sense of his consistency. If you watch his full games vs someone like Seth who's 2400+, he's not any more consistent and he's less powerful.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Everyone agrees, he's very stable in all advanced shots. That's the case for all 2300+ players.

Now take this at very high speeds and you've got a 2500+ offensive player.

I feel like I've hit a plateau. I don't know what to do to get to my next level. I dont know what area I need to improve.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I feel like I've hit a plateau. I don't know what to do to get to my next level. I dont know what area I need to improve.

Where do you feel like you are you losing the most points?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He seems really consistent to me and is able to hit really advanced shots like counter-loops

yes he does

however advance shot x 1 or 10 in a row is the difference in playing level.
Why Ma Long is better than say Xu Xin?
Ma Long can do just do a bit more advance shots in a row over Xu Xin

Same can be said with a 2500 player over 2400 player

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I feel like I've hit a plateau. I don't know what to do to get to my next level. I dont know what area I need to improve.

Lets stop with Dan's USATT level
What is yours?

 

[thomas.pong]

I feel like I've hit a plateau. I don't know what to do to get to my next level. I dont know what area I need to improve.

It happens, we usually hit plateaus after a eureka moment and some improvement, then we stagnate until the next eureka moment. Just keep practicing and mixing in games and you'll figure it out!

 

[TensorBackhand]

Where do you feel like you are you losing the most points?

I think that's my problem, I don't think there is 1 clear area. I win points and lose points in the same ways, looping, rallying, driving, etc.

But if I had to just pick one area: alot of times I'm still not sure whether the serve is underspin or topspin. Particularly out of the backhand serve motion, the reverse pendulum motion, and the tomahawk motion. It all looks the same to me.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Lets stop with Dan's USATT level
What is yours?

I already posted my level and some results in its own thread.

 

[dingyibvs]

I feel like I've hit a plateau. I don't know what to do to get to my next level. I dont know what area I need to improve.

I feel like I need to improve everything lol. I'm trying hard not to be scatter brained during practice so I don't try to practice everything.

 

[dingyibvs]

Lets stop with Dan's USATT level
What is yours?

Lower than his

 

[thomas.pong]

I feel like I need to improve everything lol. I'm trying hard not to be scatter brained during practice so I don't try to practice everything.

Yes, it's only good to focus on improving 2-3 things at a time at most.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I already posted my level and some results in its own thread.

Then i'm not going to help you answer here and hijack Dan and Dima's thread. Since I posted so much coaching article in hundreds of threads over the past 10 years lol

 

[TensorBackhand]

Then i'm not going to help you answer here and hijack Dan and Dima's thread. Since I posted so much coaching article in hundreds of threads over the past 10 years lol

Ok. You're free to do whatever you want.

If I have more questions about Dan or Tom's level, both of who I really appreciate their level of play, I'm going to go ahead and ask it.