Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JeffM]

I finally get to play tt tonight!!
And it was a blast! (despite all the limitations there)

I didn't get to arrive early to 'practice' as my parents needed to get some dinner first and I want them to come and have a hit, so I had to arrive rather late into the 'practice time' - which is only 30 min to start off with, so I probably got 5 min of having a hit, and even then, the player didn't really want to 'practice', and he was just giving me backspin pushes on the start go, so I really didn't have a warm up.

Anyway, I cannot control everything in life.

For you to understand the system, they play a handicap system, so plays can have a negative or positive rating, and mine is -9 (which is the highest rank there), so it means I will start the set off at -9. They also make it play to best of 7.

Starting off, I play a guy who has a rating of +2.. he can hit some slow rallies, but wasn't able to outplay me, so I won the match 4-1 or 4-2, it is pretty silly having to win 20 points to win a set, and I am pretty annoyed by it.

Then I went and found the strongest guy that beat me last time 4-3 to play him. I sort of mentally prepared as to how I should play him, but he still smashed me the first set. I didn't get far at all. He likes serving reverse side with bit of backspin to my forehand area, sometimes it drifts long so I would loop it but he knows where it is going, so I lost a bit there. Then if it is too short for me to loop, I push but he would be at his forehand corner already with his bh ready to smash any pushes that is slightly too high.

I then adjusted a bit, and tried to banana bh his serves, without much practice prior, I found it rather difficult. So I reverted back to pushing, but I try to keep it low, so he would still try to use his bh to smash/drive my backspin push but his success chance dropped. I keep adjusting my angle until it is at a height that he didn't want to risk anymore. Then I can get in with opening up with my forehand or bh. I also tried to change up my serves, and I kind of knew some of his returns for my serves, so I could step around and kill the 3rd ball etc.

I managed to finish the match 4-2. I took one set 11-1, but I think by 6-1, he may have given up mentally for that set. I am quite happy I get to beat him really, considering no practice whatsoever for 2 weeks.

Moving on, I was asked by an older lady to play, She didn't ask me to start the match with the handicap, so I was happy, and she wasn't really serving legally, no ball throwing etc, but whatever, I won 3 sets and then she had enough. There was also an air current going through the hall, so the ball was doing some drifting which again is quite annoying.

Then I got asked to play with an elderly man. He was not able to move well, and the level gap is too much, so I won 2 sets, and then called it the end.

Finally I found the 2nd strongest player in the club to play. Last time I beat him 4-2, today I managed to beat him 4-1. It wasn't easy, his style is again pretty annoying to play. He plays up close to table, and my style is slowish loop, which means he would be making big angles for me to run around, and I had to try to outspin him or out speed him. I again did some serve variations and took the match.

I did something different to last time, and that made me so much more confident to move around the slippery floor. I did the wet towel trick, and it worked really well! So grateful for my friend who recommended me to try it.
Also, going to the gym and specifically putting more emphasis on my quads gave me the confidence to use my legs alot more with less fear for injuring my knees again.

All in all, today was a good tt session for me. Thanks for reading.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I finally get to play tt tonight!!
And it was a blast! (despite all the limitations there)

I didn't get to arrive early to 'practice' as my parents needed to get some dinner first and I want them to come and have a hit, so I had to arrive rather late into the 'practice time' - which is only 30 min to start off with, so I probably got 5 min of having a hit, and even then, the player didn't really want to 'practice', and he was just giving me backspin pushes on the start go, so I really didn't have a warm up.

Anyway, I cannot control everything in life.

For you to understand the system, they play a handicap system, so plays can have a negative or positive rating, and mine is -9 (which is the highest rank there), so it means I will start the set off at -9. They also make it play to best of 7.

Starting off, I play a guy who has a rating of +2.. he can hit some slow rallies, but wasn't able to outplay me, so I won the match 4-1 or 4-2, it is pretty silly having to win 20 points to win a set, and I am pretty annoyed by it.

Then I went and found the strongest guy that beat me last time 4-3 to play him. I sort of mentally prepared as to how I should play him, but he still smashed me the first set. I didn't get far at all. He likes serving reverse side with bit of backspin to my forehand area, sometimes it drifts long so I would loop it but he knows where it is going, so I lost a bit there. Then if it is too short for me to loop, I push but he would be at his forehand corner already with his bh ready to smash any pushes that is slightly too high.

I then adjusted a bit, and tried to banana bh his serves, without much practice prior, I found it rather difficult. So I reverted back to pushing, but I try to keep it low, so he would still try to use his bh to smash/drive my backspin push but his success chance dropped. I keep adjusting my angle until it is at a height that he didn't want to risk anymore. Then I can get in with opening up with my forehand or bh. I also tried to change up my serves, and I kind of knew some of his returns for my serves, so I could step around and kill the 3rd ball etc.

I managed to finish the match 4-2. I took one set 11-1, but I think by 6-1, he may have given up mentally for that set. I am quite happy I get to beat him really, considering no practice whatsoever for 2 weeks.

Moving on, I was asked by an older lady to play, She didn't ask me to start the match with the handicap, so I was happy, and she wasn't really serving legally, no ball throwing etc, but whatever, I won 3 sets and then she had enough. There was also an air current going through the hall, so the ball was doing some drifting which again is quite annoying.

Then I got asked to play with an elderly man. He was not able to move well, and the level gap is too much, so I won 2 sets, and then called it the end.

Finally I found the 2nd strongest player in the club to play. Last time I beat him 4-2, today I managed to beat him 4-1. It wasn't easy, his style is again pretty annoying to play. He plays up close to table, and my style is slowish loop, which means he would be making big angles for me to run around, and I had to try to outspin him or out speed him. I again did some serve variations and took the match.

I did something different to last time, and that made me so much more confident to move around the slippery floor. I did the wet towel trick, and it worked really well! So grateful for my friend who recommended me to try it.
Also, going to the gym and specifically putting more emphasis on my quads gave me the confidence to use my legs alot more with less fear for injuring my knees again.

All in all, today was a good tt session for me. Thanks for reading.

Handicap + best of 7 is ridiculous...

 

[JeffM]

Handicap + best of 7 is ridiculous...

Completely with you on this one.. I wrote a large message to the club captain after the session. I am new to the club, but I feel so frustrated and annoyed with the system. I hope he gives me a reasonable reply.
I feel rude to say no when someone else asks me to play with them, especially when I know the match will be very one sided, but at the same time I feel it is going to be a waste of time also... Some people gets it, so they would just play 1-2 sets or bit more then call it quit.

 

[NextLevel]

Handicap + best of 7 is ridiculous...

It actually favors the better player (which was Jeff in this case).

 

[JeffM]

It actually favors the better player (which was Jeff in this case).

I actually found it more as a chore to get through the points, as those wins don't matter to me, but I feel the process of going through 20 points a set not as helpful as playing a more similar level player. Sometimes to save myself having to repeat the whole set again if I lose the set, I resort to not doing a full stroke, which I feel is detrimental to my playstyle.
I guess the other way to play them is to play them full force, serve my usual serves and do my normal attack without holding back. That might be the 'right' way to play but I don't feel good smashing newish/less experienced/ less advance players like that.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Completely with you on this one.. I wrote a large message to the club captain after the session. I am new to the club, but I feel so frustrated and annoyed with the system. I hope he gives me a reasonable reply.
I feel rude to say no when someone else asks me to play with them, especially when I know the match will be very one sided, but at the same time I feel it is going to be a waste of time also... Some people gets it, so they would just play 1-2 sets or bit more then call it quit.

Handicap tournaments in my local league is like this:
1. Each game is first to 31 points (biggest handicap is ~20. Best player could be ~-10)
2. If the sum of handicaps of both players is above 31, then play best of 5. If the sum of handicaps is 5 or below, it's best of 1. Otherwise best of 3.
Can't remember the exact numbers for rule 2, but the idea is roughly the same amount of points are played regardless of handicaps.

 

[NextLevel]

I actually found it more as a chore to get through the points, as those wins don't matter to me, but I feel the process of going through 20 points a set not as helpful as playing a more similar level player. Sometimes to save myself having to repeat the whole set again if I lose the set, I resort to not doing a full stroke, which I feel is detrimental to my playstyle.
I guess the other way to play them is to play them full force, serve my usual serves and do my normal attack without holding back. That might be the 'right' way to play but I don't feel good smashing newish/less experienced/ less advance players like that.

The real issue is that there are no stakes. But if there were stakes, you would be more happy with the format. Money makes you appreciate the way the length takes out the randomness of the result. However you play them is your choice, and I don't think the smash approach is necessarily the best or correct one, but ultimately the result is usually more reliable if it takes more points for either player to win as there are more chances for the better player to display their level. Fewer games make things more random.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

@USDC,
Lately, I get to play a lot more games with Long-Pipster. The guy whom I shared a video last time, yesterday I got a 2-3 lost against him with the final set at 11-8. Very close. My score is inching closer to a win.

I just want to say that TT is a very mental game, during the final set, at the last few points, he started changing his tactics dramatically with unfamiliar placement and that made me lost focus and I lost it. Oh well, lesson learned.

 

[dingyibvs]

So I played in the weekly local league again, and I won the top group for the first time! 6 weeks ago I was in the 3rd group, so I'm pretty pleased with the progress. This is especially because I didn't sacrifice the development of any new skills, makes me feel good that my poor performance last week (came in 2nd to last) in an attempt to utilize my BH did not go to waste.

I actually lost my first match to this guy who's had my number the past 3 weeks. Maybe with the new blade and the new play style I needed a match to get into form, but I really didn't feel like I played poorly. This is where recording the matches would probably be pretty helpful. He lost all other matches, while I won the rest, so go figure.

My next match was against the top rated regular at the club. I beat him 2 weeks ago, but lost to him 0-3 last week. This time I beat him in a close 3-2 match. I opened up and scored quite a few points with my BH. I felt like I was perhaps trying a bit too hard to use my BH in that match. I'm trying to be balanced, not a BH dominant player after all.

The next match was against the second best regular at the club. He's a JPen player with a consistent spinny loop, good blocking, solid off the bounce counter, and LP BH that he only uses occasionally which used to give me all sorts of problems. I don't have much problem with SH LP BH players whether they're choppers or pushblockers. I anticipate them to use the LP side often and I'm prepared. But this guy would only occasionally use it and usually he puts it long to my BH and it would score 90% of the time. Well, not today. I initially looped them back without too much quality, he was surprised that I looped them back at all and I scored a couple points. But soon he started just countering them back, and I started looping them with more quality. This game I also adjusted my style to a more typical two-winged looper style, where I'd still look for the FH whenever possible, but didn't hesitate to attack with my BH when it's not possible. My new style finally came to form by the 4th game, and I won the last 2 sets to win the match 3-2.

My last match was against a fellow quick riser. 6 weeks ago he was in group 3 with me and I beat him 3-0. He won group 2 last week so got to play in group 1 this week, and I beat him 3-0 again. He's played in group 1 before though, months ago, so he hasn't been as consistent in raising his skill levels as me. My BH had a poor showing against him. His block quality was a lot worse than the others, they were really soft and floaty, and I had trouble moving in and finishing the shot. But overall he's just a bit worse than me in every respect, whether it's service, receive, FH, or BH, so I never really felt threatened even though one game did go to deuce.

 

[dingyibvs]

Going forward, I have one more week of BH training on my schedule. I still need to develop a BH loop drive vs. backspin game, I feel like I'm close now, and I need to refine my BH punch against a high brush loop. After that my BH arsenal will be complete minus a counter loop game which I won't worry about right now. By the end of the month I'll be moving on to FH training, will need to get loose and use my hips. I've been kicking forward instead of rotating right to left with my FH shot, and that just isn't cutting it with the 968. It's too much forward movement, and the blade is too fast and stiff for that to be consistent.

I'm not sure how long I'll spend on that, maybe 1-2 months. Maybe I'll be goal oriented instead, just work on it until I can counter loop. The biggest issue I face with counter looping is the footwork, I just get too flat footed even when I see the opponent gearing up for a loop and I know it's most likely coming to my FH side. Improving a skill will probably be more enjoyable than adding a new skill, as I don't really need to worry about changing my mindset during games. I'll be working on my BH consistency when my body's tired of working on my FH, adding more combinations short, long, fast, and slow shot in addition to simply left and right placements.

After that I'll probably work on my short game, with short pushes and flicks in particularly. I can already tell that's gonna be painful. The first time I start using them in games will result in a lot of errors for sure.

 

[NextLevel]

Going forward, I have one more week of BH training on my schedule. I still need to develop a BH loop drive vs. backspin game, I feel like I'm close now, and I need to refine my BH punch against a high brush loop. After that my BH arsenal will be complete minus a counter loop game which I won't worry about right now. By the end of the month I'll be moving on to FH training, will need to get loose and use my hips. I've been kicking forward instead of rotating right to left with my FH shot, and that just isn't cutting it with the 968. It's too much forward movement, and the blade is too fast and stiff for that to be consistent.

I'm not sure how long I'll spend on that, maybe 1-2 months. Maybe I'll be goal oriented instead, just work on it until I can counter loop. The biggest issue I face with counter looping is the footwork, I just get too flat footed even when I see the opponent gearing up for a loop and I know it's most likely coming to my FH side. Improving a skill will probably be more enjoyable than adding a new skill, as I don't really need to worry about changing my mindset during games. I'll be working on my BH consistency when my body's tired of working on my FH, adding more combinations short, long, fast, and slow shot in addition to simply left and right placements.

After that I'll probably work on my short game, with short pushes and flicks in particularly. I can already tell that's gonna be painful. The first time I start using them in games will result in a lot of errors for sure.

Not necessarily. Most players don't serve or push short so short pushes and flicks not working is usually a result of that not so much about your technique.

 

[dingyibvs]

Not necessarily. Most players don't serve or push short so short pushes and flicks not working is usually a result of that not so much about your technique.

I actually get a lot of short and half long services since I tend to aggressively attack any long service that's not a fast one to my BH.

 

[NextLevel]

I actually get a lot of short and half long services since I tend to aggressively attack any long service that's not a fast one to my BH.

How many of them have bounced twice on the table if you let them?

 

[dingyibvs]

How many of them have bounced twice on the table if you let them?

Well, I wouldn't let them lol.

 

[thomas.pong]

Finally tried the boosted H3 Prov 39' OS on my W968 National last night, I definitely have to make some adjustments and get used to the feel but it’s promising (and it'll feel even better once the topsheet is broken in). It obviously helps in the short game and open ups, big components of the game where I can use a lot of improvement, as few points go past this stage and into longer rallies. So I think it can have a positive impact on my game with eventually a couple more points won per set. I'll stick to H3 for at least the next few weeks, I think it'll also help me improve my FH overall, it lets you know right away if the shot was decent or garbage as it's not forgiving, and the feedback I get from W968 helps me know if I hit the ball in the right spot or not.

I lost the first 2 sets close against a decent player I usually beat 3-0, making the same several mistakes. I adjusted in some areas by the 3rd set and won it and the next 2 to win the game. We played another game and I won 3-0 feeling fairly at ease in areas I usually struggle more with.

I also received a used W968 Provincial today I traded for. It'll be interesting to compare to the National version.

 

[NextLevel]

Well, I wouldn't let them lol.

I know but one thing that people often get wrong is depth perception, especially on down the line serves, so it is often a special experience for them to actually see that most of the serves they return over the table are longer than they think they are. That said, you clearly have a strong forehand, so I suspect most people would try to serve short, but they likely get away with stuff sometimes.

 

[dingyibvs]

Finally tried the boosted H3 Prov 39' OS on my W968 National last night, I definitely have to make some adjustments and get used to the feel but it’s promising (and it'll feel even better once the topsheet is broken in). It obviously helps in the short game and open ups, big components of the game where I can use a lot of improvement, as few points go past this stage and into longer rallies. So I think it can have a positive impact on my game with eventually a couple more points won per set. I'll stick to H3 for at least the next few weeks, I think it'll also help me improve my FH overall, it lets you know right away if the shot was decent or garbage as it's not forgiving, and the feedback I get from W968 helps me know if I hit the ball in the right spot or not.

I lost the first 2 sets close against a decent player I usually beat 3-0, making the same several mistakes. I adjusted in some areas by the 3rd set and won it and the next 2 to win the game. We played another game and I won 3-0 feeling fairly at ease in areas I usually struggle more with.

I also received a used W968 Provincial today I traded for. It'll be interesting to compare to the National version.

Let me know how the provincial version feels. I'm also interested in knowing if there's a head size difference. I'm considering getting one as backup, and if it's 159mm like the regular HL5 I might use it as a mold and trim my national version down to that size.

I know but one thing that people often get wrong is depth perception, especially on down the line serves, so it is often a special experience for them to actually see that most of the serves they return over the table are longer than they think they are. That said, you clearly have a strong forehand, so I suspect most people would try to serve short, but they likely get away with stuff sometimes.

Oh yeah, I'm definitely nowhere near perfect on depth perception. With that said, it's tough to get a quality loop in on a half-long service as well so if in doubt I just try to return short or, more realistically, half long. The main exception is a fast half long service, which is very tough to push anywhere near short, so I always loop those.

 

[NextLevel]

Played more good TT today, partly enabled by my opponents.

So my biggest issue right now is playing off the table which I need to do to have more options on serve return (you can send the ball long and a bit high against certain players if you are committed to defending or countering on the 4th ball). I also need to be able to loop the ball late to have more ball placement options. So I just focused on backing off the table with *my* warmup loops today. As I practice more, I will make backing up after a long push or in response to an opening loop a priority. I need to work on my lateral and in-and-out footwork extensively.

My first match was against the guy I had never beaten and well the streak is over! Though to be fair, I got more than my fair share of Nets and edges down 0‐2 and it annoyed him to a point of almost no return. He was up 2‐1, 8‐4 and lost that game. But you don't pick how you win or lose against better players. And he is gracious enough to practice with me or maybe I would be further away from beating him. Backing off the table a bit definitely helped my defense and my opponent was the person who actually told me that the key to learning to step back and loop was to do it and *not* to feel the pressure to do what you do at the table.

I then played the guy who I beat for the first time the last time I wrote a playing report. This one went deep into the 5th with lots of rallies. We are both tall players and since I stepped back more, it was sometimes an angles competition of who could make the other move wider or who could misdirect down the line. The victory kept me undefeated on the day as the club had to close early.

Lots of work to do but on the whole my game is headed in the right direction. Arthritis sucks but I will see how I feel tomorrow. The worst joint at the moment is the shoulder.

I will have to start recording matches soon. But it is clear to me my overall game has improved to a point where I don't play my natural game with softer sponge and that tacky rubbers work well for my technique. I am almost tempted to try H3 Neo now on both sides but I think I will just stick with what is working for now.

 

[Der_Echte]

Next Level,

Take a trip to NYC Krooklyn area and look for Carl's Bait Stash of National H3, you will be sure to hit more winners.

Glad to hear you are getting back into the sport moar and enjoying it moar.

 

[IB66]

Played more good TT today, partly enabled by my opponents.

So my biggest issue right now is playing off the table which I need to do to have more options on serve return (you can send the ball long and a bit high against certain players if you are committed to defending or countering on the 4th ball). I also need to be able to loop the ball late to have more ball placement options. So I just focused on backing off the table with *my* warmup loops today. As I practice more, I will make backing up after a long push or in response to an opening loop a priority. I need to work on my lateral and in-and-out footwork extensively.

My first match was against the guy I had never beaten and well the streak is over! Though to be fair, I got more than my fair share of Nets and edges down 0‐2 and it annoyed him to a point of almost no return. He was up 2‐1, 8‐4 and lost that game. But you don't pick how you win or lose against better players. And he is gracious enough to practice with me or maybe I would be further away from beating him. Backing off the table a bit definitely helped my defense and my opponent was the person who actually told me that the key to learning to step back and loop was to do it and *not* to feel the pressure to do what you do at the table.

I then played the guy who I beat for the first time the last time I wrote a playing report. This one went deep into the 5th with lots of rallies. We are both tall players and since I stepped back more, it was sometimes an angles competition of who could make the other move wider or who could misdirect down the line. The victory kept me undefeated on the day as the club had to close early.

Lots of work to do but on the whole my game is headed in the right direction. Arthritis sucks but I will see how I feel tomorrow. The worst joint at the moment is the shoulder.

I will have to start recording matches soon. But it is clear to me my overall game has improved to a point where I don't play my natural game with softer sponge and that tacky rubbers work well for my technique. I am almost tempted to try H3 Neo now on both sides but I think I will just stick with what is working for now.

Hey NL

Great that you are playing matches.
Maybe you will get the camera going and post a match on the ‘how did I win or lose match thread’!!!!!

Maybe the reference to H3 Neo will tip Sergey Scoobie Doo Toos into actually posting something!!!!!