Chinese all boosting, yet never caught red handed/ Why?

[igorponger]

Why Chinese national players avoided being penalized for oily treatments on the rubber (= boosting).

Yes. Chinese all boosting their Hurricane rubbers prior to a competition. It is believed the black oil will get Hurricane sponge as bouncy as ESN super-tensored sponge.
Players associated with Chinese national teams have now adopted the testing device for safety reason, to check out the resulting rubber thickness. The thickness gauge is available directly from DHS head office upon a request. Anyone can obtain for ¥900 or so.

Be happy/

 

[lodro]

the trick of course is we start with a 1.9mm sponge then when the boosting is done it will be
full size , 2.2mm 🤣 🤣 🤣
after all we did invent the gun powder you know.
🤣

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

To think Chinese are the only one boosting is like assuming Russians are the only ones doping. However, the later, Russian Federation (of all sports) has been banned for 4 years for boosting.

Doping in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile in table tennis, boosting is allowed, Igor.
The ruling is not about boosting, but about who boosted it.
Players themselves can't, but manufactures can.
This is very different to the doping boosting that Russians love to do. Table tennis players just feel it is unfair that some players can have manufacture boosting, while others can't, so end of the day, 80% of them all boost (yes, lots of non Chinese too)

 

[mocker88]

To think Chinese are the only one boosting is like assuming Russians are the only ones doping. However, the later, Russian Federation (of all sports) has been banned for 4 years for boosting.

Doping in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile in table tennis, boosting is allowed, Igor.
The ruling is not about boosting, but about who boosted it.
Players themselves can't, but manufactures can.
This is very different to the doping boosting that Russians love to do. Table tennis players just feel it is unfair that some players can have manufacture boosting, while others can't, so end of the day, 80% of them all boost (yes, lots of non Chinese too)

Yeah. And as a ITTF representative wrote to me. All after treatments are forbidden.

ITTF certifies the top sheet, not the sponge. And you can use any sponge you want together with a certified top sheet, but you are not allowed to boost the sponge, as the booster will diffuse into the rubber sheet. I mean what is a boosted sponge and what isn't? Does it depend on who's treating the sponge with what?

In my opinion, the main thing about boosting is that the top sheet is getting stretched out a bit and makes a dense top sheet more springy. Of course the booster itself holds various properties that makes all boosters a bit different from each other.

This is of course an effect that you could get from stretching the rubber when gluing it to the blade, but it would be much harder to perform such action compared to a similar effect by boosting.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yeah. And as a ITTF representative wrote to me. All after treatments are forbidden.

ITTF certifies the top sheet, not the sponge. And you can use any sponge you want together with a certified top sheet, but you are not allowed to boost the sponge, as the booster will diffuse into the rubber sheet. I mean what is a boosted sponge and what isn't? Does it depend on who's treating the sponge with what?

In my opinion, the main thing about boosting is that the top sheet is getting stretched out a bit and makes a dense top sheet more springy. Of course the booster itself holds various properties that makes all boosters a bit different from each other.

This is of course an effect that you could get from stretching the rubber when gluing it to the blade, but it would be much harder to perform such action compared to a similar effect by boosting.

Problem is on ITTF rules and how they enforce rules. Not the users and how they make use of the rules.

IMO, if you want to set rules, you need to be able to measure them accordingly.
it is just like the service rule of min height of 16cm.
I mean, what device is used to say the min height is achieved or not. Is it by the naked eye of some umpires "old" eyes? You will just get a red card if you ask the umpire to provide eye test results.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

2.4.7 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment.

So all those players who use rubber cleaners, sweat, breath, dihydrogen oxide and other form of treatment on the "top sheet" is illegal too.
This is where I do LOL.
an example of making rules where you can't enforce them.

 

[mocker88]

2.4.7 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment.

So all those players who use rubber cleaners, sweat, breath, dihydrogen oxide and other form of treatment on the "top sheet" is illegal too.
This is where I do LOL.
an example of making rules where you can't enforce them.

Yes I asked them if gluing was prohibited as well. never got a good answer on that one

Products like Falco Life Expander are also forbidden, as they interact with the top sheet. How could you enforce rules these non-measurable actions? It's just stupid to try...

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

This is a German product. It is at its peak engineering. No modification is necessary. It is foolish to tinker with something already perfect.

This is a German product. It is at its peak engineering. No modification is necessary. It is foolish to tinker with something already perfect.

This is a German product. It is at its peak engineering. No modification is necessary. It is foolish to tinker with something already perfect.

p/s:

This is a German product. It is .........😉

 

[igorponger]

[video]

БЕРЕЖОНОГО БОГ БЕРЕЖОТ.
Китайский спортсмен втихаря обработал резину бустером и пришол в пункт контроля чтобы лично убедитца что резина не раздулась черезчур. Опытный и хитрый спортсмен.

What you see is FZD doing thickness measurements on his Hurricane rubber to secure his better safety in the competition. This guy is well aware of possible troubles over a boosted sponge.

 

[Egon]

[video]

БЕРЕЖОНОГО БОГ БЕРЕЖОТ.
Китайский спортсмен втихаря обработал резину бустером и пришол в пункт контроля чтобы лично убедитца что резина не раздулась черезчур. Опытный и хитрый спортсмен.

What you see is FZD doing thickness measurements on his Hurricane rubber to secure his better safety in the competition. This guy is well aware of possible troubles over a boosted sponge.

The big problem lies in the stickiness of the rubber, much bigger. Chinese sticky rubbers give a lot of benefits to the players who use them - a short serve with strong rotation, a short reception of the serve, ease of twisting the opponent's topspin and the ability to return the ball without top spin - a flat ball. Unlike the opponent, for whom they create a lot of problems. The Chinese use a booster because it was their technical solution after the ban on fast glue. They simply could not develop a tensor sponge, which at the time of the ban had already been developed by the Butterfly company. In my opinion, there is absolutely no difference where and by whom the sponge was pre-tensioned, as long as it did not affect the health of the athletes.

 

[Attitude]

Can we please get more reaction emojis like a facepalm and a sigh... I need them soooooo often 😋
For some reason more in igors posts and threads^^

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

2.4.7 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment.

So all those players who use rubber cleaners, sweat, breadth and other form of treatment on the "top sheet" is illegal too.
This is where I do LOL.
an example of making rules where you can't enforce them.

[video]

БЕРЕЖОНОГО БОГ БЕРЕЖОТ.
Китайский спортсмен втихаря обработал резину бустером и пришол в пункт контроля чтобы лично убедитца что резина не раздулась черезчур. Опытный и хитрый спортсмен.

What you see is FZD doing thickness measurements on his Hurricane rubber to secure his better safety in the competition. This guy is well aware of possible troubles over a boosted sponge.

How many times has FZD had a ITTF infraction (either thickness or VOC)? i'm sure you can give me that answer

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Can we please get more reaction emojis like a facepalm and a sigh... I need them soooooo often 😋
For some reason more in igors posts and threads^^

some times I'm not sure if he is joking around, or he only sits with 1980s information and some really old videos or pictures.
Gozo posted that German car, but Russian still driving old cars there, so I'm not sure if it is just media portraying Russians with old stuff but Igor is really outdated in many of his posts.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

View attachment 24715
This is a German product. It is at its peak engineering. No modification is necessary. It is foolish to tinker with something already perfect.


View attachment 24716
This is a German product. It is at its peak engineering. No modification is necessary. It is foolish to tinker with something already perfect.

View attachment 24717
This is a German product. It is at its peak engineering. No modification is necessary. It is foolish to tinker with something already perfect.

p/s:
View attachment 24718
This is a German product. It is .........😉

Cars, yes
table tennis rubber, I will go with Top Japanese or even Top Chinese over Top German any day.
Car wises, Japanese, maybe. Chinese, hell no. German yes please!

 

[TaiHaoPingPong]

Cars, yes
table tennis rubber, I will go with Top Japanese or even Top Chinese over Top German any day.
Car wises, Japanese, maybe. Chinese, hell no. German yes please!

If the topic is going this direction I feel this should be mentioned.

"Dieselgate" - a timeline of the car emissions fraud scandal in Germany

This factsheet provides a timeline of Germany's car emissions fraud scandal, so-called "Dieselgate".

www.cleanenergywire.org

 

[Zwill]

Chinese all boosting, yet never caught red handed/ Why?​

They don't have red hands.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Cars, yes
table tennis rubber, I will go with Top Japanese or even Top Chinese over Top German any day.
Car wises, Japanese, maybe. Chinese, hell no. German yes please!

We're not going to be friends! Ever!

 

[hclnnkhg]

Cars, yes
table tennis rubber, I will go with Top Japanese or even Top Chinese over Top German any day.
Car wises, Japanese, maybe. Chinese, hell no. German yes please!

I thought Japanese and German rubbers are more similar than to Chinese rubbers. Is that not true?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

We're not going to be friends! Ever!

Well, I know you are pro German rubbers.
But truth is, ESN has only ever been a follower and never once a leader.

Post speed glue ban, Butterfly tension sponge technology WON.
I don't like it when one brand dominates (by far), as 1 sponge has dominated a decade and as production costs would have become lower, this greed has increase pricing many times.
Mean while ESN has launched something like 6 generations of rubber to fight off 1 generation of Butterfly (namely the Tenergy series)

ESN combined is not even selling the numbers of the Tenergy family in the pro or semi pro space, while ESN is introducing a generation every year or two, and while doing so, cost price increasing every second time. Any person with a manufacturing background will tell you, ESN profits is way lower than Butterfly, especially in terms of production version sales (or ROI in the R&D)

I thought Japanese and German rubbers are more similar than to Chinese rubbers. Is that not true?

Japanese, or rather Tenergy family for the past decade has been unmatched by anyone, especially Chinese.
German or ESN is behind Tenergy
Dignics, Rozena and now Glayzer (known as ESN killer) has been a very agreesive few years by Butterfly, compared to say the past 5 or 8 years prior to these new rubbers.

While Chinese only became market leaders with DHS H3 prov/national version once they opened up production to cater for the commercial markets in recent few years (taking market share away from Butterfly, and with the big help of the 40+ ball, and the slow "T05 Hard" release to the commercial market). I still remember a decade ago, you need to be really connected to get a prov or national rubber. Today, any one can just order one online from one of the many DHS distributors. However, DHS market share is still really limited to only Asian countries, while Butterfly has the "other side" in Asia, and a big portion of the rest of the world, especially in Pro/semi pro space.

 

[Egon]

Well, I know you are pro German rubbers.
But truth is, ESN has only ever been a follower and never once a leader.

Post speed glue ban, Butterfly tension sponge technology WON.
I don't like it when one brand dominates (by far), as 1 sponge has dominated a decade and as production costs would have become lower, this greed has increase pricing many times.
Mean while ESN has launched something like 6 generations of rubber to fight off 1 generation of Butterfly (namely the Tenergy series)

ESN combined is not even selling the numbers of the Tenergy family in the pro or semi pro space, while ESN is introducing a generation every year or two, and while doing so, cost price increasing every second time. Any person with a manufacturing background will tell you, ESN profits is way lower than Butterfly, especially in terms of production version sales (or ROI in the R&D)



Japanese, or rather Tenergy family for the past decade has been unmatched by anyone, especially Chinese.
German or ESN is behind Tenergy
Dignics, Rozena and now Glayzer (known as ESN killer) has been a very agreesive few years by Butterfly, compared to say the past 5 or 8 years prior to these new rubbers.

While Chinese only became market leaders with DHS H3 prov/national version once they opened up production to cater for the commercial markets in recent few years (taking market share away from Butterfly, and with the big help of the 40+ ball, and the slow "T05 Hard" release to the commercial market). I still remember a decade ago, you need to be really connected to get a prov or national rubber. Today, any one can just order one online from one of the many DHS distributors. However, DHS market share is still really limited to only Asian countries, while Butterfly has the "other side" in Asia, and a big portion of the rest of the world, especially in Pro/semi pro space.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Butterfly started producing Dignics with a semi-tacky topsheet only after ESN finally caught up with Tenergy in product quality, but not before, when the Chinese dominated with sticky rubber all these years. Why is that? Maybe because the profit was coming, and this is more important than sporting achievements ....