Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I was surprised my back actually felt pretty good all day (I had a serious back injury in 2018 from falling 17 feet…twice…while climbing up the bouldering section at my gym). It was my legs that were really toast by the end of the day.

But if you were curious of how I did this:

- lots of agility and fitness train up to the tournament, but tapered off a week before (taper = strictly table tennis for the week before)

- the night before I did 40 minutes of serve practice only

-slept 10 hours the night before the tournament and 7 hours the previous day

-I woke up at 6am, and turned on my thermotex heating pad and layed on it and went back to sleep for another hour. This is how I woke up with my back muscles already loose

-breakfast was coffee, 8pm orange juice, 2 fried eggs, toast, avocado and ham steak, 8 oz water

-15 minutes of isomeric core exercises before starting my playing warm up at the tournament

-gentle 30 minute warm up…not very intense at all

-I made sure to move slowly every time I retrieved the ball

- quick break every six points as allowed by tournament

-throughout the day I drank 80oz water

-every 2.5 hours I drank 8oz Of harmless harvest coconut water (I only buy this stuff for tournaments because it’s too expensive)

-I sat or laid down and stretched whenever I wasn’t playing

-After 2 hours I ate half a cup of fresh cut pineapple

-after three hours I had some cheese and crackers

-at 130pm I ate half a lamb euro and half a scoop of pre-workout (has caffeine)

-around 4pm I had my other half cup of pineapple and my other half scoop of pre workout

I think that about sums it up. Today I actually feel pretty good. I could play today if I wanted but I’m going to rest today and tomorrow

I went through yesterday with no warm ups...
I did stretch a bit to cool down.

I had no idea I was going to play so serious yesterday. If I had known, I would warm up

but for high level kids, 6 hours of matches a day is serious strain on the body indeed, so thumbs up to you for making it through!
For them, they do 3 to 5 days on a trot and if they keep winning, it is like 20 to 30 matches over 2 or 3 days. Crazy stuff and we (coaches) all few tournament organizers should do better, since I do feel some part of continuous matches and no time to each, is some what, illegal.

 

[Jslick89]

From the portions i could watch, @Jslick89 did exceedingly well.

I saw him come back from 0-2 in games to equalize as he began to play effectively and believe in what can work.

It was unfortunate he lost at the end 11-9 that match in the 5th, he got a little too anxious to attack and missed a couple.

At the end of the day, in a final, he played right into the hands of his opponent and got into medium fast hitting immediately... and opponent did that better than J-Slick... so he was at a big disadvantage in those rallies. J-Slick could hand for 6-10 hits, but when opponent stayed patient, he won.

J-Slick hung in there and fought, so opponent got a little impatient. J-Slick was able to get it to the 5th this way and I had to leave (he had his regular coach present) and could not see that outcome.

Still, advancing in all those singles events and going as far as he did in a field that now in 2023 from Sac and Bay Area playing so well at every level, it was a big accomplishment.

Thank you so much! I appreciate the help and I learned a lot from you. I ended up losing 11-9 in the 5th game again lol. Brutal but I’m just glad I never got blown out in a single match. All of my 3 of my losses were in the 5th game, two of those being 11-9. One match I lost in four games. 13 matches I won! I am happy! But determined to improve

 

[OvrChkn]

Competed in a tournament yesterday for the first time in 6 months. Five events. Ended up advancing in 3 of my groups. In total, I played 18 matches from 930am-8pm. I estimate about 6 hours on the table (i only recall a handful of 15 minute breaks here and there).

I had two come from behind victories being down 0-2. One loss from being up 2-0. I almost fought back from being down 0-2 in two of my semi final events, only to lose 11-9 in the 5th game. No upset losses. Lots of upset victories. total record for the day was 13-5. Beat one of my club mates who has beaten me the last 5 times we played (he's got pips/smooth set up and can really change the pace with his twiddles)

I really think i would have won my last final if it wasn't my 18th match of the day but my opponent played great.

The great @der_echt coached me for a couple matches and that was really helpful. The backhand technique we worked on a couple weeks ago was already paying dividends

Lots of lessons. My regular coach finally got to see me play a couple matches too and he said we have a lot to work on so i'm excited about that.

That's an incredible amount of matches! How did you handle dealing with getting cold in between matches? I can't seem to warm myself back up.

You're definitely right about the Harmless Harvest Coconut Water (it's so expensive).

 

[Der_Echte]

One good match I had (among two very disappointing losses) was against a local player who is WAY more skilled and play level than his rating. (He likes to keep his rating low) (No he is not a ringer trying to win money in big tourneys)

This player has the capability to pressure and win vs me. He has played vs me over a dozen times.

This match, after an adjustment early on, I was able to either make opponent do the work or take initiative in the points, made a lot of good reaction shots close to the table under strong pressure. I never did so well in that area vs this opponent before.

This one match showed I could perform like a strong 2000 level player should in a tourney, but I have to play like this every match for the entire event or tourney... then do consecutive tourneys playing like this...

I do not expect to get to a point where I am evening out on this until several months later... only then I would expect to show an increase in the frequency where I play solid 2000 level for a few matches in the tourney... this will be an indicator that I am on the path of moving forward.

I may have another 2-3 tourneys before I turn this around.

Still, it is nice to that I can play a great match and be focused and effective... I need more consistency in stringing together such matches.

 

[Jslick89]

That's an incredible amount of matches! How did you handle dealing with getting cold in between matches? I can't seem to warm myself back up.

You're definitely right about the Harmless Harvest Coconut Water (it's so expensive).

Honestly, I didn’t have enough time in between matches to cool down. I played two events in the morning, advanced in one so I was the single elimination during my only scheduled break. I think my longest break was 20 or 25 minutes due to a previous group taking a long time so there was a lag in our 4 person group round robin.

As I mentioned, I was sitting/laying in between my matches but a couple minutes before I was to play, I would get up and do some easy dynamic movements to get the blood flowing. I also think my pre workout was helping the blood flow later on throughout the rest of the day….

 

[IB66]

I literally cannot serve the pure topspin variant short it is always half long or long even if the 2nd bounce is really close to the net... the spin just carries it long unfortunately. If people read it correctly they will attack it for sure.

Sidetopspin is easier to keep short if it's more sidespin than topspin.

But I guess if ppl read it as a short underspin serve you're almost certain to win the point outright lol.

With underspin it is way easier to keep it short.

Yeah top spin (heavy) is hard to keep short.
I occasionally do a BH slow, but heavy top spin serve when I play doubles. It’s corner to corner, because it’s not fast long ,1st bounce is maybe 300mm - 400mm or thereabout from my end, I try to just clear the net and land as close to the net on opponents side. Kick takes it to corner. An unexpected serve, it kicks low if I get it right.
I drop bat below table then pull up fast, contacting back middle of ball, with a fine almost vertical brush of the ball. All spin no power.

 

[OvrChkn]

Honestly, I didn’t have enough time in between matches to cool down. I played two events in the morning, advanced in one so I was the single elimination during my only scheduled break. I think my longest break was 20 or 25 minutes due to a previous group taking a long time so there was a lag in our 4 person group round robin.

As I mentioned, I was sitting/laying in between my matches but a couple minutes before I was to play, I would get up and do some easy dynamic movements to get the blood flowing. I also think my pre workout was helping the blood flow later on throughout the rest of the day….

I'd be so done for the day after my 2nd or 3rd match in a RR haha

 

[NextLevel]

I'd be so done for the day after my 2nd or 3rd match in a RR haha

Given your estimated playing level, I would encourage you to work on your serving and blocking if you get so exhausted after 3 matches lol.

I actually played 21 matches in a tournament in 2011, but I was just an underrated 1000 USATT player then. I won 4 or 5 events back then, I think from U800 to U1400 and lost in the U1600 semis and lost 1 RR match (Went 19-2). But I wouldn't compare what I did back then to what JSlick89 did, only because table tennis becomes more inherently athletic as the rating numbers go up (not even counting the impact of the new ball too). Not that the athletic demands on a blocker/hitter are zero, but that you need to do more work to compete as better players play the game faster and that just takes up more energy, no matter your style.

In the same vein, the player Tony wrote about (14 matches WJTTC or whatever, if that is real, I am not saying Tony is making it up so much as it doesn't sound like a realistic ITTF schedule unless someone just messed up the events or he played in two different age categories which I am not sure is allowed, maybe it happened over 2 days or something) is obviously exerting himself at a different level from us. That to me sounds legitimately insane which is why I have doubts.

If you think working on your blocking is "lazy table tennis", I think that the amateur level, there are various ways to develop your skills and that rounding out your game can happen in various ways - there is no linear path. I developed my close to the table game before building out my looping game (had my legs held up better, I would probably play much more mid distance as I was headed in that direction for a while). The advantage of better blocking is that it completes your game at every level, while something like say lobbing, while it is part of an advanced game, may not complete it. Though I do know a guy who became a proficient fisher before developing his close to the table game. We took different paths to USATT 2000 as adult learners, but we played similar games in the end, close to the table offence, heavy focus on serve and third ball attack, but he had more mobility and forehand, while I played more backhand close to the table. But we were in the end essentially the same kind of player. I even know a kid who had lousy serves up until he was already about 1800 USATT, but he know how to rally behind an obvious no-spin serve to the short forehand and later learned to serve and loop better. And his main practice partner was a junior who served pendulum sidespin that got pushed for popups and loop kills and broke 1800 playing this way (both ended up 2200+ later). No linear path at the amateur levels for sure.

 

[OvrChkn]

I get more of an energy dump maybe from adrenaline compared to practice. I can handle the intensity in practice, but I just can't get back into the groove of things after my first two matches. I just feel uncharacteristically stiff. I'll see how my conditioning holds next tournament.

 

[NextLevel]

I get more of an energy dump maybe from adrenaline compared to practice. I can handle the intensity in practice, but I just can't get back into the groove of things after my first two matches. I just feel uncharacteristically stiff. I'll see how my conditioning holds next tournament.

The biggest things IMHO are

1. control your breathing so you breathe largely like you do when you practice. Don't let the circumstances force you to hyperventilate.
2. grade yourself by how well you try the things that you worked on in practice, not by whether you win or lose matches. This is my biggest thing, especially if you are training significantly.

For me, learning to adjust my loop and spin to be more conservative and more aggressive (to increase or reduce risk to maintain consistency) was what helped me stopped my having bad losses. So rather than thinking "I lost a point, the day is going badly", it became "hey, I missed that because I didn't put enough topspin on the ball" or "I missed that because I contacted the wrong point on the ball, I need to come up the back more" or "I misread the spin, next time I do that service, I need to adjust my stroke to do this instead of that". So you keep problem solving throughout the match and focus less on the score. And it is okay to problem solve and just say "I am missing too many first loops, let me push more and see if that works." And sometimes it was, "the opponent is playing good loops, it will be a tough match, but if he wins, it is okay, he is playing well and I will try to frustrate him, but it is okay to lose to good players playing well."

For me, I learned to actually say, "I enjoy playing a certain way, the rating is largely secondary, if I lose playing the way I Want to play, that is perfectly fine."

Unfortunately, I find that people who play in parts of the country where there are not a lot of USATT tournaments often think of ratings events as big things. When I was in Philly, I could find rated events every weekend if I really wanted to play because NY, NJ, PA and MD usually had at least one thing going on even it was a 3 hour drive. So conditioning yourself to peak becomes a bigger issue when you only have one event to do it with. It's one of the advantages of a team league system, where you get more opportunities to play on a regular schedule. Though of course, that can have its own pressures as well.

 

[NextLevel]

Here are a couple of matches against players rated 400 pts below me by their official USATT ratings. I won both matches deuce in the 5th. My shot selection wasn't smart, I tried to end a lot of points early, I think I even lost a 10-3 lead in the 5th in one of them. But in the end, if the opponent is making good shots and you are missing shots you usually make, you have to adjust or accept, not act like you are the only one who determines how the point will play out.

Sorry, they aren't edited, I have to work on this - but will at some point. You can just watch the last 3 minutes.

 

[JeffM]

Here are a couple of matches against players rated 400 pts below me by their official USATT ratings. I won both matches deuce in the 5th. My shot selection wasn't smart, I tried to end a lot of points early, I think I even lost a 10-3 lead in the 5th in one of them. But in the end, if the opponent is making good shots and you are missing shots you usually make, you have to adjust or accept, not act like you are the only one who determines how the point will play out.

Sorry, they aren't edited, I have to work on this - but will at some point. You can just watch the last 3 minutes.

Hi NL, I only watch the last 3 min of both match.
First match, the guy has an amazing landing % with his FH flat hit (high risk shots), and you missed quite a few of your forehand loops. I couldn't see him doing much on his bh side though apart from pushes, so might be something to focus on next time.
Second match, the opponent is quite the opposite to the first match: likes to play control spin shots. You missed a few of shots that you would normally make, and he played decisive shots when the opportunity arise (e.g. when you popped up his serve).

For me, when I am playing a match with ranking involved, it doesn't matter how much lower the opponent is (unless they are like beginners, which doesn't normally happen in the match up), I play my game to win. Sometimes it isn't your day and you miss your usual shots, but just the same as playing against someone of your level or higher level, you have to adjust and change how you play. When I don't change or be stubborn to try to play a certain way, my winning % drops significantly even if they are 'weaker' than me in ranking.
I have a friend who has a crazy loop forehand and backhand. He is super fit, massive thighs etc from gym. In practice, you feel he would be really high level. But in matches, he loses to ppl of quite low rank. I think that is because he is stubborn in the way he plays. He tries to power through everything which he can in practice but in matches, he isn't smartest in his shot selection and hence the losses.

 

[JeffM]

Today I decided to meet up with the guy from nearby town to train together. I drove to his town (50km away) and trained for 2 hours. I felt the need to properly 'train' as the real comp is 1 month away.

We took 20-30 min to warm up fh and bh. Then I set a rule where each person can say one drill they want to do and do about 5 min and then swap. We didn't actually use a timer but none of us were the 'hogging' type.

Because it wasn't a normal club day, we had the whole basketball court for ourselves, and we put out 1 table with barriers. It almost feel like a proper competition setup as we set it out so spaceous.

It felt quite good. I got my fh and bh working. I was especially happy with my bh open ups. As I was getting them more on the table with quality, I begin to anticipate the next return ball instead of waiting to see if it lands or not or if it gets returned or not. There were a few combos of bh open up and fh speed loop to finish the ball.

I also got it recorded, so I will be posting that up sometime.

My forehand loop against backspin wasn't terrible today but it wasn't that good. But my fh loop in topspin is decent.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

In the same vein, the player Tony wrote about (14 matches WJTTC or whatever, if that is real, I am not saying Tony is making it up so much as it doesn't sound like a realistic ITTF schedule unless someone just messed up the events or he played in two different age categories which I am not sure is allowed, maybe it happened over 2 days or something) is obviously exerting himself at a different level from us. That to me sounds legitimately insane which is why I have doubts.

I do speak under correction.
It was the first time they mixed singles, doubles and mixed doubles on the same day - 1 age category.
It was crazy
The guy kept winning, so he was coming to the stands to rest and then getting ready again
I think MS, he lost in the SF or QF against Harimoto, so singles he had a good 4 or 5 matches that day along.

i should be able to pull the match stats off ITTF old website. will check when I have a bit of time to surf around.
21 matches, hats off to you.

 

[NextLevel]

Hi NL, I only watch the last 3 min of both match.
First match, the guy has an amazing landing % with his FH flat hit (high risk shots), and you missed quite a few of your forehand loops. I couldn't see him doing much on his bh side though apart from pushes, so might be something to focus on next time.
Second match, the opponent is quite the opposite to the first match: likes to play control spin shots. You missed a few of shots that you would normally make, and he played decisive shots when the opportunity arise (e.g. when you popped up his serve).

For me, when I am playing a match with ranking involved, it doesn't matter how much lower the opponent is (unless they are like beginners, which doesn't normally happen in the match up), I play my game to win. Sometimes it isn't your day and you miss your usual shots, but just the same as playing against someone of your level or higher level, you have to adjust and change how you play. When I don't change or be stubborn to try to play a certain way, my winning % drops significantly even if they are 'weaker' than me in ranking.
I have a friend who has a crazy loop forehand and backhand. He is super fit, massive thighs etc from gym. In practice, you feel he would be really high level. But in matches, he loses to ppl of quite low rank. I think that is because he is stubborn in the way he plays. He tries to power through everything which he can in practice but in matches, he isn't smartest in his shot selection and hence the losses.

Everything you wrote is spot on. Everyone has a ratio somewhere between how they would like to play and whether they would like to win playing another style. If you would win more matches in 6 months time if you put long pips on your backhand, would you do it? The answer is different for different people. In fact, I strongly suspect that I would have significantly better results with a short pips backhand but does that mean I would enjoy doing it?

Both players I faced had underrated potentials and have likely beaten players at my level in practice matches before (and maybe in rated events as well for the hitter). I have seen good players lose matches playing all out offense against players they could beat pushing and when I was much more all round, I never understood it. Since I am trying to build back my offense I understand what happens much better now and it isn't just a power thing or a strategy thing, but also an acceptance of this is how they enjoy playing and they are going to enjoy it even if they don't win doing it. Because most tournaments are tied to your average performance, not your best or your worst game. That said, I have to practice expanding my spin range a little, it will take a bit more time for me to be able to confidently handle more styles again but I am getting there. But while I don't like losing, I would be much happier losing playing how I did given where my TT is than winning pushing a lot more (and i did push a fair bit vs the inverted player).

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I do speak under correction.
It was the first time they mixed singles, doubles and mixed doubles on the same day - 1 age category.
It was crazy
The guy kept winning, so he was coming to the stands to rest and then getting ready again
I think MS, he lost in the SF or QF against Harimoto, so singles he had a good 4 or 5 matches that day along.

i should be able to pull the match stats off ITTF old website. will check when I have a bit of time to surf around.
21 matches, hats off to you.

ITTF website is getting worse and worse

managed to find this:

So this can confirm that it was singles and doubles on same day. 3 events on same day.

update:
Can't really find more info, but I think judging by the amount of entries and KO from R64 etc, My initial number is not correct.
Fact is, there was no lunch break, no rest and one match after another, at best of 7s too for singles and best of 5s for doubles/mixed doubles.

 

[OvrChkn]

The biggest things IMHO are

1. control your breathing so you breathe largely like you do when you practice. Don't let the circumstances force you to hyperventilate.
2. grade yourself by how well you try the things that you worked on in practice, not by whether you win or lose matches. This is my biggest thing, especially if you are training significantly.

For me, learning to adjust my loop and spin to be more conservative and more aggressive (to increase or reduce risk to maintain consistency) was what helped me stopped my having bad losses. So rather than thinking "I lost a point, the day is going badly", it became "hey, I missed that because I didn't put enough topspin on the ball" or "I missed that because I contacted the wrong point on the ball, I need to come up the back more" or "I misread the spin, next time I do that service, I need to adjust my stroke to do this instead of that". So you keep problem solving throughout the match and focus less on the score. And it is okay to problem solve and just say "I am missing too many first loops, let me push more and see if that works." And sometimes it was, "the opponent is playing good loops, it will be a tough match, but if he wins, it is okay, he is playing well and I will try to frustrate him, but it is okay to lose to good players playing well."

For me, I learned to actually say, "I enjoy playing a certain way, the rating is largely secondary, if I lose playing the way I Want to play, that is perfectly fine."

Unfortunately, I find that people who play in parts of the country where there are not a lot of USATT tournaments often think of ratings events as big things. When I was in Philly, I could find rated events every weekend if I really wanted to play because NY, NJ, PA and MD usually had at least one thing going on even it was a 3 hour drive. So conditioning yourself to peak becomes a bigger issue when you only have one event to do it with. It's one of the advantages of a team league system, where you get more opportunities to play on a regular schedule. Though of course, that can have its own pressures as well.

Yeah, I definitely wish we had more tournaments more often here.

 

[ttmonster]

For some reason, we don't have a thread for European championships 2023 . Just wanted to ask you guys ... does Ionescu remind you of Kreanga's forehand ?

Haven't seen a windmill forehand in an european player since .. ...

 

[blahness]

I finally understand why CNT players train FH to FH with their right foot in front or level with the left foot. I gave it a try as well and it became so, so much easier and faster to transition between BH and FH because it's basically the same stance, no stance changes required. Furthermore, the FH becomes faster because you rotate less in this stance. There's no need to over-rotate the body when the ball coming is not an opportunity ball - it's training this concept into the subconscious.

 

[blahness]

For some reason, we don't have a thread for European championships 2023 . Just wanted to ask you guys ... does Ionescu remind you of Kreanga's forehand ?

Haven't seen a windmill forehand in an european player since .. ...

I think both Alexis and Truls have pretty windmilly and very strong FH loop similar to CNT players.