How much $ do you spend on coaching?

[TensorBackhand]

What do you see as your biggest bottleneck? The truth is that while not everyone admits it, a lot gets better when you have quick and easy power to bring to the ball to overpower lots of no-spin balls with good spin. If you don't know what spin is on the ball, then multiball a basic topspin stroke to apply to no-spin balls in random situations. If moving is part of the problem to execute the stroke, load that as well into the drill.

As I said, I think my bottleneck is analyzing the ball, and reacting to it quickly. #1 I'm never sure what type of spin is on it. #2 i'm never sure what shot to use to deal with it #3 I dont have enough time to pull out and execute the shot

 

[hclnnkhg]

As I said, I think my bottleneck is analyzing the ball, and reacting to it quickly. #1 I'm never sure what type of spin is on it. #2 i'm never sure what shot to use to deal with it #3 I dont have enough time to pull out and execute the shot

all these can be help by a coach. But given your current comments, I'd actually advise against coaching. It is a lot less effective if you don't believe in the coach can help.

 

[Der_Echte]

I'm not sure. In some ways I feel like I've been making steady progress, and can sometimes compete with pretty high level players over 2000 range.

In other ways, I feel like I still can't do the really simple things right. I struggle more against the quirky unusual players than the good players, and that's why I feel the coach will not really help me much.

Hi TB,

A personal experience with this to get you an idea of what goes on.

When I came to California, I was almost rated 2000 and was improving after a long term shoulder injury recovery.
I did a few tourneys and was almost instantly 1700s rated. For a two year time period, I played TT only 2 or 3 times... most of that was goofing off at the new large SITTA TT club... hanging out with the lower rated players helping them out, but also hanging around Sergey and TTD member ERM (2100+ USATT and a former national youth player in two sports)

I worked on a few technical things, but nearly everything I improved upon was MENTAL PERFORMANCE. After those couple years, as I did more tourneys, my rating grew and when I was 2000 ready, I got that rating and kept it a few years (until I started coaching and backed off competing)

Sure, you could do like I did and goof off without any coaching and get your 2000 level if you have enough technical and improve mental performance.

I still recommend professional assistance though.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

all these can be help by a coach. But given your current comments, I'd actually advise against coaching. It is a lot less effective if you don't believe in the coach can help.

funny that I am reading how TB doesn't need a coach here as his challenges are not coach related.

He has changed coaches several times the past few years, obviously trying to inject something new into him.

he has worked on improving his forehand stroke,

So, I think on some level, he knows he needs something new and is trying. Maybe time is his friend and his training will pay off leading to more title wins.

Maybe he needs a more drastic change.

But then I read this on the other thread and he kind of hinted coach, working on new things, training -> which is around support staff, aka coach

Maybe I can say to TB
Get a coach,
work on improving your forehand stroke
you need something new
train hard + time will pay off and you can get to 2000.
Get a drastic change - maybe stop changing rubbers?

 

[latej]

Zero. Null. And I think it is pretty safe to say, that nobody around me, let's say 300 adult people/players of various levels, has personal dedicated paid couch. It just is not the way here. Also I think it safe to say (and for some perhaps to realize), that the majority of players are not the professionals.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Zero. Null. And I think it is pretty safe to say, that nobody around me, let's say 300 adult people/players of various levels, has personal dedicated paid couch. It just is not the way here. Also I think it safe to say (and for some perhaps to realize), that the majority of players are not the professionals.

Same. It's not that coaches would have 0 benefit, but the cost-benefit ratio isn't worth it to me because there are 150 things that would take priority for use of money and time.

 

[latej]

Same. It's not that coaches would have 0 benefit, but the cost-benefit ratio isn't worth it to me because there are 150 things that would take priority for use of money and time.

However, in our club, I have an opportunity to train with an older guy, who earlier was on a higher level (higher than I've reached so far). And he doesn't have an ambition to grow now, to improve. So when we train, it is basically like a training with a couch, because it is focused on what I do, we do dedicated training, dedicated combinations, he's giving me feedback, etc. It is really very very enjoyable. Now I also have an opportunity to train with good players, with slightly lower, or similar, and also higher level than me (but not so high-level that I'd be too annoying low level to them), and those, especially those with similar or higher level, the training are super good too. But the difference is, that in these training, the focus is 50/50 - like 50-me/50-him. Also there is not that much feedback/talk, etc. (there is other talk ofc) Both are the table-time, which matters most, obviously. But there is difference.

 

[Lazer]

I haven’t yet spend a dime on individual coaching. I currently play in 2 clubs where the coaches gives small advices every once in a while. That’s fine with me. And I don’t look to be a master, just getting exercise and having fun, so no need really. That said I have some really good coaches and what I probably need to win more games is some good tactics. But the thing is I don’t care much, of course it’s more fun to win win than to loose but it’s not that big of a deal. Let me give you an example.
If I have a problem with a certain serve I keep experimenting until I get it. I loose this game but I win the next.

I totally understand TensorBackhands equipment experimenting, it’s part of the fun, absolutely nothing wrong with it. This sport has so many dimensions…
Maybe when I retire and get more time I will get some individual coaching…

The bottom line is don’t forget the fun and the excerscise…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[blahness]

Well I like testing equipment, it keeps me energized and eager to play. And like I wrote in the past, it doesn't seem to have hindered my growth, but rather it has catalyzed my growth by forcing me to play with less than ideal equipment.

RE coaching, I really like to know that I get a solid return on my time and money. I don't think I would get that with coaching and it would just frustrate me. Also, I don't think my biggest issues are technical. So long sessions of technical ball striking wouldn't help me too much. My biggest issues are more analytical understanding of spin, and which shot I should use against what type of ball. So what type of spin is on the ball? and within my portfolio of shots, what type of shot do I need to use to deal with this spin? I often throw away easy points against silly balls because mentally I have no idea what to do.

So rather than having ball-striking long coaching sessions, what I really need is a guy sitting on my shoulder and watching every weird shot that comes to me and gives me advice on how to deal with this ball.

But as I write this, I just had an idea. The 2200 penhold player that I play with apparently used to be a coach at Stellan's club. Maybe I'll ask him how he used to coach and if he could just work with me for a little bit. Maybe that will give me an idea of what I'm missing from coaching. But watching Victor's training videos with Stellan doesn't make me optimistic. I see he does a lot of multi-ball and ball striking training, but I don't think that is my biggest bottleneck right now.

Do you speak Chinese? If yes you should binge all of Fang Bo's videos on 全世爆, he talks a lot about actual match situations and very detailed knowledge on how to deal with particular situations and how to adjust. I learnt a huge ton from the channel.

There are some smart coaches who don't only teach technique but match strategies and game reading out there too, but you have to actively look for them.

TT is not just about FH and BH looping for sure although ppl focus so much on it. Serve and serve receive are the most important parts imo.

 

[Opinari]

I have a coach - worth every penny in my mind, even if rates are high ($100/hr). Personally, I've discovered that many things that I thought were tactical (e.g., trouble reading spin on receive) are actually technical.

For me, problems with receiving are actually related to recovery, footwork, contact, acceleration and timing. Also failure to have options (e.g., a soft spinny loop instead of a loop drive).

Really, to be honest, almost every problem I have is actually technical (aside from poor physical fitness)!

It's amazing how much more consistent my game got over the past few months and less reactive after I improved my fundamentals with coaching. The coach also helps develop mini strategies for setting up attacks (almost like memorizing chess openings).

Highly recommended - I don't change equipment anymore. I just save up money for lessons!

 

[TensorBackhand]

Well today I got a big box of balls and had my friend do some of those hated serves to me. 100 serves spinny junky serves that i hate to receive. Hope this helps make a difference.

 

[Migzkulit]

I have a coach - worth every penny in my mind, even if rates are high ($100/hr). Personally, I've discovered that many things that I thought were tactical (e.g., trouble reading spin on receive) are actually technical.

For me, problems with receiving are actually related to recovery, footwork, contact, acceleration and timing. Also failure to have options (e.g., a soft spinny loop instead of a loop drive).

Really, to be honest, almost every problem I have is actually technical (aside from poor physical fitness)!

It's amazing how much more consistent my game got over the past few months and less reactive after I improved my fundamentals with coaching. The coach also helps develop mini strategies for setting up attacks (almost like memorizing chess openings).

Highly recommended - I don't change equipment anymore. I just save up money for lessons!

I just finished a year of training here in thailand. Before I started, I could barely topspin a ball on backhand, only drive or block. Now I can go into a backhand loop off a long push. I can finish points with my backhand a lot more consistently now.

What puzzle was left for me was the backhand and forehand flick. I can only do them as a surprise, not as a commanding weapon. The footwork has at a high center of gravity. I can't seem to get back in time to counter their topspin.

But what I haven't learned is how to win matches in certain situations.
I know how I can win points, I have a gameplan but the strategy was left to us players to figure out.

I hadn't done a tournament in that 1 year and so I got a lot of training time instead.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

If you want to be happy for the rest of your TT life,
Never make a pretty woman your coach,
So from my personal point of view,
Get an ugly girl or just a dude to coach you duh!
- Jimmy Soul , 1963

NB: TT is a very mental game, too much distraction is unbeneficial.

 

[blahness]

If you want to be happy for the rest of your TT life,
Never make a pretty woman your coach,
So from my personal point of view,
Get an ugly girl or just a dude to coach you duh!
- Jimmy Soul , 1963

NB: TT is a very mental game, too much distraction is unbeneficial.

Don't deny your inner urges Gozo

 

[Migzkulit]

I just finished a year of training here in thailand. Before I started, I could barely topspin a ball on backhand, only drive or block. Now I can go into a backhand loop off a long push. I can finish points with my backhand a lot more consistently now.

What puzzle was left for me was the backhand and forehand flick. I can only do them as a surprise, not as a commanding weapon. The footwork has at a high center of gravity. I can't seem to get back in time to counter their topspin.

But what I haven't learned is how to win matches in certain situations.
I know how I can win points, I have a gameplan but the strategy was left to us players to figure out.

I hadn't done a tournament in that 1 year and so I got a lot of training time instead.

On a side note, the flicks are a symptom of my root problem. Service receive. In my effort to improve my backhand, I made less use of my forehand to speed up my learning. Instead of fh pivot loops, I opted to do backhand loops.

I know I play best when I can just forehand any topspin ball. I move fast enough to go from a fh pivot to a down the line forehand.
Hell I could do it for an entire game.
Or if I couldn't attack first then I'd just let them open up and eat my counters.

I have learned the fundamentals now and I feel like I can do the things that I could only see on wtt or even my clubmates do.

Being able to vary how you attack a ball changes everything. My fh dominance on every ball only applies to right handers for example. When I play left handers, I tend to use my backhand more as the sidespin is more natural to it.

We fortunately had a variety of play styles so I could train against most styles.

 

[Der_Echte]

I have a coach - worth every penny in my mind, even if rates are high ($100/hr). Personally, I've discovered that many things that I thought were tactical (e.g., trouble reading spin on receive) are actually technical.

For me, problems with receiving are actually related to recovery, footwork, contact, acceleration and timing. Also failure to have options (e.g., a soft spinny loop instead of a loop drive).

Really, to be honest, almost every problem I have is actually technical (aside from poor physical fitness)!

It's amazing how much more consistent my game got over the past few months and less reactive after I improved my fundamentals with coaching. The coach also helps develop mini strategies for setting up attacks (almost like memorizing chess openings).

Highly recommended - I don't change equipment anymore. I just save up money for lessons!

Opinari, good to see you the forums and may be good to see you if I can get to NYC and TT action before i get shut down.

 

[blahness]

I just finished a year of training here in thailand. Before I started, I could barely topspin a ball on backhand, only drive or block. Now I can go into a backhand loop off a long push. I can finish points with my backhand a lot more consistently now.

What puzzle was left for me was the backhand and forehand flick. I can only do them as a surprise, not as a commanding weapon. The footwork has at a high center of gravity. I can't seem to get back in time to counter their topspin.

But what I haven't learned is how to win matches in certain situations.
I know how I can win points, I have a gameplan but the strategy was left to us players to figure out.

I hadn't done a tournament in that 1 year and so I got a lot of training time instead.

I had a long af process to learn the FH flick too. Basically most coaches even online are teaching it wrong. The most most important thing is learning how to use the body and how to snap the forearm (has to be inwards like a hug, not extending it forward). Wristy FH flicks are unreliable af. The coach that spent like 5 mins explaining and I got it straight away is Sun Hao Hong on the Chinese internet. With these basics you can do both the nospin "push flick" and the topspin flick, both are valid options. After rotating into the FH flick you would have your weight on your right foot, you will have to rebound back to your left foot when your opponent hits the ball and using that momentum you can cover the entire table.

BH flick or chiquita for me - the turning point came from understanding how to use the lever arm of the thumb and the index finger, with this you can create a very powerful rotational effect. You then add on the body usage to get a powerful chiquita. You also use the momentum of the body rotation from the chiquita to rotate back directly into ready position, before understanding this I also had trouble recovering.