Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Im keen to diagnose you with all sorts of TT deseases @NextLevel .
Be ready!
I will upload the raw footage just so you can get started - I will work on the edits next weekend when I have time for people who don't have the time to waste lol. Diagnose away! BRB...
 
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Im keen to diagnose you with all sorts of TT deseases @NextLevel .
Be ready!
Full length version:

Note to self: stop this bad habit of wiping yourself with your shirt and revealing your drawers and buy enough towels and use them during the breaks!
 
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Tagging @NextLevel as well. It'll be something that I will point out to my coach next session.

The best way I can describe it is that, after serve, I set up around my backhand side. Typically, I do a pendulum serve. If the rally goes longer, I still stay on my backhand with my arm in neutral to be ready for either forehand or backhand, but if the next ball goes wide on my forehand, I can't get there in time and my hips end up facing away from the table to try to get to the ball.

There's issues with my reverse pendulum where I know I'm setting the serve up for my forehand, but I can't properly get myself to move to the forehand side if it's sent wide or long.

I need to record a match again one day. Haven't had the opportunity with the past few competitions.
Definitely record the matches and training, if you are investing as much time as you are in your game, you need to invest in a setup of some sort that lets you capture footage easily without much thought so you can review it on demand. The ability to convert self awareness into better play is key for adult learning. You don't have to record a lot, but you do have to record at least 5 minute stretches of technique, sometimes using it in real time to look at possible issues with the help of a coach. The mind is very deceptive, it makes you feel better than you often deserve. But the main thing is that if the coach wants to correct something, you may not see what you need to change, but the camera can show you how far away from being self aware you are and it will also capture your improvement.

The issue you are describing is complicated enough that if you have never serious practiced against it, cut yourself some slack even as you work on it, it can take a while for it to get better. If you watch the match, you will see me make a mistake over and over again despite being fairly aware of what was going on. Table tennis is often like that.
 
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My footwork kinda sucks too but I've been practising a lot of it away from the table. It's something that you have to consciously practice in order to get good at it, and a lot of stuff isn't all that apparent at the first go.

The fastest way to cover wide FH is the crossover step. The basics is that you lunge towards the right, and then simultaneously rotate and do the weight shift to your left leg in the air, and land with your left foot significantly to the right of your right foot. The important part is to land with weight on your left foot (otherwise you'll land like an elephant and there's no next shot). Immediately after landing your left foot, the next step will be the right foot - it needs to find a place to push off from so that you can do the normal 2 step to go quickly back to the left to cover the gaps in your BH. I practice this a lot just for fun lol because it feels like flying.

When you're good at it and crossover step feels natural you can always use it when you feel like you need some extra reach on the FH. It's very easy to transition into it because you always start with loading weight on your right foot - if the ball is close just do your normal stroke and if the ball is far just go into the crossover step.


BH to FH transition - if you use the left to right foot weight transfer you'll end up with your weight on the right foot. However you'll need to step with your right foot again to find the ideal position to push off from for the FH. 2 consecutive right foot steps is very clumsy. So what actually needs to happen is that after the weight is on the right foot you need to have a very quick left foot step (which is the key "single foot split step" - if ball is to your BH you simply lunge with the left foot to where it needs to be - 1 step, but if ball is to your FH you still step with your left foot and use that to lunge to the right foot to prepare for the FH. This way there is no confusion on which leg to use for stepping (crucial especially against opponents who feint)

There's a lot of similar patterns which I'm working on...

Moving to the left is the hardest part because the reverse crossover step to the left is not as stable as the crossover step to the right. So it's always good to place a bit more attention on covering the BH because you can usually reach most balls with the crossover step even if you get caught.
How large of a step do you end up doing when doing the first part of the split-step?

@NextLevel Thanks for the video. You get a lot of acceleration/forearm snap on both strokes. I think the bed/floor exercise video you showed me before makes more sense now watching that.
 
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How large of a step do you end up doing when doing the first part of the split-step?

@NextLevel Thanks for the video. You get a lot of acceleration/forearm snap on both strokes. I think the bed/floor exercise video you showed me before makes more sense now watching that.
It's a night and day difference and it is the most invisible thing that differentiates good players from lower rated players and it is often why it is hard for players at different levels to discuss the game meaningfully. Don't get me wrong, footwork and all the other stuff matters but with modern inverted rubbers, if you can generate a significant amount of spin and turn it into consistency, you gain 500 points pretty much immediately from where you currently are and it can happen over the space of 6 months. Unfortunately, too many adult learners underappreciate this and work too hard on other stuff that doesnt give you as much reward for the time you put in. Moat of my issues are because I have arthritic knees, not because there is something really unsound about my game.
 
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How large of a step do you end up doing when doing the first part of the split-step?

@NextLevel Thanks for the video. You get a lot of acceleration/forearm snap on both strokes. I think the bed/floor exercise video you showed me before makes more sense now watching that.
If you mean the left foot split step after a BH loop to transition to a FH loop, it is very small and in fact often just stepping in place. At high speed rallying, time is of essence. But there is some degree of flexibility there in terms of placement of the left foot. The important part is to have a very quick rhythm where the right foot follows that left foot split step within microseconds. It's like fast dotted rhythms in music. At full speed in fact it looks as if both feet land at the same time.

I also "slow practice" these footwork patterns trying to make them smooth af, all without a racket in hand. And then I try to increase the speed once I get the hang of it and try to push my limits in terms of speed. These are all concepts taken from my musician days lol. Once you've ingrained them it's time to shadow it with a table, and then finally with real balls.

My training partner said that I improved leaps and bounds on footwork this year and a lot of it is traced back to training away from the table. Best way to fix habits.
 
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Full length version:

Note to self: stop this bad habit of wiping yourself with your shirt and revealing your drawers and buy enough towels and use them during the breaks!
I think you said it yourself in a post before.
Sometimes your body says enough is enough and you cant do what you wanna do.
You try to put in the effort but it just doesnt work.
It seems like you cant focus and think clearly.
Missing loops that you should hit usually is also disturbing.

Given the circumstances, the loss shouldnt feel that bad or disappointing.

I dont know much about how you play otherwise, what you are capable of and what not but here are some insights.
Ideas for next time or just being hindsight harry.

Tactically you could have varied with serves and generally the over the table game.
In pushes changing placement all over the table ( short, long, left, right)
Adding more heavy underspin or dropping short forehand side with some sidespin.
Generally short forehand side is a weakpoint of most players.
Some tricky serves that would make the ball pop up and be easier to kill immediately.

Maybe you tried it and I missed it or your opponent showed that his pips could handle everything.

Technique/Footwork/Movement and anything related to that is not for now.

Also I dont wanna pull you down too much now!

Over the table game is what I find a largely underrated part.

I find my pushing/service/receive game generally can save me from situations where I would otherwise would fail.
I am known for having the spinniest serves and pushes in my club and thats what they often find annoying.
Their tricky serves dont work on me.
If I cant hit a loop or I just dont feel like it, you can have some fun with my spin and even more spin.

Its what I recommend to many young players who just want to practice loops, attacks and all of that.
Learn some serves that serve your purpose,
learn to receive effectively
and learn to push/play over the table.

Gotta go practice now, cya!
 
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It's a night and day difference and it is the most invisible thing that differentiates good players from lower rated players and it is often why it is hard for players at different levels to discuss the game meaningfully. Don't get me wrong, footwork and all the other stuff matters but with modern inverted rubbers, if you can generate a significant amount of spin and turn it into consistency, you gain 500 points pretty much immediately from where you currently are and it can happen over the space of 6 months. Unfortunately, too many adult learners underappreciate this and work too hard on other stuff that doesnt give you as much reward for the time you put in. Moat of my issues are because I have arthritic knees, not because there is something really unsound about my game.
One thing that was pointed out to me last tournament I was in was to square my hips more vs having my feet bladed more and focus on the forearm acceleration while keeping my forearm more open. Both you and your opponent do that so it's cool to see the application of it and that's something I need to be focused on improving for next event. It's a very iterative process, so I'm enjoying the journey to get there.

@blahness That's a pretty cool connection to make with the timing.
 
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One thing that was pointed out to me last tournament I was in was to square my hips more vs having my feet bladed more and focus on the forearm acceleration while keeping my forearm more open. Both you and your opponent do that so it's cool to see the application of it and that's something I need to be focused on improving for next event. It's a very iterative process, so I'm enjoying the journey to get there.

@blahness That's a pretty cool connection to make with the timing.
There are many ways to get there, but as in all things, it is best to do whatever you are learning at a pace that lets you develop strength and recover and get the sequencing right, and then build it up over time. Taking light weights and doing wrist flexibility exercises with flexion and extension is also helpful as well as pronating and supinating with light weights. Over time it all adds up, though for full power, you need the body to work harder, but don't underestimate what you can get with well time use of the lower arm and wrist to accentuate spin swing trajectories. But for feeling spin and whip, nothing beats actually doing it with serve practice and self multiball as well as looping into pips to learn to add spin to the ball (short will give you a slightly deader ball, while long pips will give you either a dead ball or a backspin ball depending on slickness). Once you develop the arm speed to spin the ball like that, the rest comes down to practice and timing but the quality is always there to aid consistency and beat a certain level of opponent.
 
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Just musing, but one thing I realized after I changed my BH technique is that I no longer really care that much about racket weight or head-heaviness. I realized that it only mattered to me before because of how much I used the wrist. Those things are really just a "feel" issue to me now, and a few grams really doesn't matter in terms of taxing my arm/shoulder whereas it did for my wrist.
 
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Just musing, but one thing I realized after I changed my BH technique is that I no longer really care that much about racket weight or head-heaviness. I realized that it only mattered to me before because of how much I used the wrist. Those things are really just a "feel" issue to me now, and a few grams really doesn't matter in terms of taxing my arm/shoulder whereas it did for my wrist.
Since you are a strong guy, a lot of stuff in table tennis responds positively to grip adjustments and practice. What you are saying makes perfect sense to me.
 
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Yesterday I went straight from 10hours of work to the club, and played until the end.

I got there slightly late when all the matches have started, so I had to wait until someone else arrive late, and a guy came, so I played him. He has a handicap of -2 while mine was -9, so I started at -7 while he starts at 0. It wasn't really an issue as he sometimes give me free points with serve errors and once I worked out how to safely return his serves. So I won 4-0

Then I played my old 'coach'. Although I do play with him outside of the club, we don't actually play games but only drills. So playing against him was fun. I have played him around 4 times previously and I won them all, the first 1-2 times more close, then I beat him in a tournament at another rural location and that was alright. He has a handicap of -6, so I start at -3 while he starts at 0. Some serves got me seldomly but I generally didn't have too much of a problem despite having a -3 start. There could have been 1 or 2 sets that were finished with 2 points difference, but I managed to win 4-0, and he said to me he wish he was 20 years younger.

Next up I played against the only player younger than me. He is in his 20s and is forehand dominant. His handicap is -6 or more, but we often just start from scratch. It was no problem for me as I feel I am superior in all departments in terms of technical skills and his deficits (bh and serve receive) are too much for him to make up with his fh. 4-0 for me.

I saw a new face and don't know his level, so I asked him for a match. He is a caucasian guy in his 50s i assume who uses penhold! Yep penhold haha. His handicap is +2, so this is kind of annoying, but it turns out to be not as bad as I thought. He uses his bh side of rubber too, while his fh rubber despite not pimples, plays like bit of anti-spin. It was one of those pre-made cheap rackets but it doesn't take much spin on it, whereas his bh side has more friction. So it was a bit of a weird game for me, I think I did lose a set, but I won 4-1. There were a few points that he stretched to my fh so wide that I can't believe that I am actually getting the ball back onto the table. I'm happy my fitness is holding up (but that said, I haven't been to the gym for 2 weeks now)..

Finally there was an older couple who came to our club. It turns out they came from interstate and just happens to be travelling down south and old coach told them to come. They plays for the Queensland team (veteran team I assume). When they were warming up, I could see that they have played for long time and can warm up properly with cross court style (this is a rare sight at my club as nobody really can do that apart from old coach but even then, he would have some trouble to block my loops consistently). I only got to play the man as time ran out. I wish I got to play them earlier but they were highly sought after by other players too. The guy said he recently changed to pimples on his backhand roughly 3 months ago. It didn't feel like the typical long pips as the balls that he block back are rather short and even when I serve long to his bh (pips), they don't drift that long, so it made my attacks more difficult (but I can still loop the 3rd ball and win mostly unless it is too close to the edge where I am uncomfortable). He has got some good serves, so first game went a long distance, and he beats me 18-16, but I managed to win the next 3 sets. Due to time constraints and everyone else packing up, we finished at 3-1. It turns out that they will be travelling up from here, but will return back early next year for once then back interstate.

So although it was a long day for me, I had a good time. I did not expect to be able to play so many players but the experience was good, which cannot be taken for granted. Although I didn't play the other player (who is probably 2nd best there, but I have only ever lost to him once on my first day to the club), he comes to the club often, so I can always play him next time.

Finally a few days off for me, and I managed to organise a time with old coach tomorrow. So that will be good. Being able to play least 2x table tennis in a week is like living the dream down here.
 
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Just musing, but one thing I realized after I changed my BH technique is that I no longer really care that much about racket weight or head-heaviness. I realized that it only mattered to me before because of how much I used the wrist. Those things are really just a "feel" issue to me now, and a few grams really doesn't matter in terms of taxing my arm/shoulder whereas it did for my wrist.
Hahahahahhhh,

You are beginning to see why I can handle and LIKE 110-120 gram blades. :D
 
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We actually had tables open all night last night at club play, so naturally i played the full 2.75 hours only stopping to rest a few minutes tops. Spent a lot of time just trying to loop every shot to my backhand with a loop or flick. i wish it was halloweeen every tuesday! i would get a lot better from all the extra practice lol
 
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Just musing, but one thing I realized after I changed my BH technique is that I no longer really care that much about racket weight or head-heaviness. I realized that it only mattered to me before because of how much I used the wrist. Those things are really just a "feel" issue to me now, and a few grams really doesn't matter in terms of taxing my arm/shoulder whereas it did for my wrist.
That's because you don't chiquita extensively yet. Report back once you do lol, those extra grams can be a killer.

But I agree with you on not relying on wrist. I personally think fingers + supination to be much more important in terms of spin production.
 
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That's because you don't chiquita extensively yet. Report back once you do lol, those extra grams can be a killer.

But I agree with you on not relying on wrist. I personally think fingers + supination to be much more important in terms of spin production.
I am still yet to find a more reliable way to chiquita everything.

I can do banana on no spin and light topspin, but heavy backspin or moderate backspin I can't.
The way I am doing it is contacting the ball at the point that is closest to me instead of on the side, and I am going over the top of the ball rather than on the side.

I think some people do it by contacting the side. How do you do it? Do you have a video of you performing it?
 
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That's because you don't chiquita extensively yet. Report back once you do lol, those extra grams can be a killer.

But I agree with you on not relying on wrist. I personally think fingers + supination to be much more important in terms of spin production.
That's just one shot per point though. Even in practice it's gonna be far lower frequency than BH-BH counters for example. When I practice with the robot, I do 80-90 shots/min for regular BH practice, while 40 for chiquitas.

In any case, I've always found chiquitas to be the hardest on my shoulder. The massive external rotation gives me shoulder pain and was one of the reasons I kept trying RPB. With RPB you naturally hold the racket with the head pointing more downwards, which reduces the amount of internal rotation I need to get ready for the shot (assuming against backspin) and therefore the amount of external rotation I need to execute it.
 
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I practiced with coach today. The playing condition isn't too ideal as it is in a garage with spiders and webs. But I will take what I can!

I did alot more backhand serving today than previously to start off the drills. I feel more comfortable serving them now and sometimes manage to vary the spin enough for coach to mis read them. It is still work in progress but I will be working on it still.

I re-newed my bh rubber last night. I thought I would be doing bh bananas better but I still don't have the confidence.

I have a day off tomorrow so will be looking to go to the doubles session (and making it 3 tt sessions in a week!). I will try focus on my bh serves and bh, even if that means it may lose some matches.
 
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