Table Tennis Dilemma: Strengthening Backhand or Changing Playstyle? [I chose strengthening]

[Ghostzen]

There will always be an inherent weakness with LP/Anti among the masses. That's why numbers of users is not high at the lower and higher levels.
Out of experience playing I've definitely found LP/Anti players at BL/ County in the UK/Europe to be very few and far between. Especially when heading up to the higher divisions.

Even at club level how many pips/Anti players are there at everyone's clubs?.

Is it the skill of the player or just the equipment?.

 

[blahness]

You can't attack backspins strongly though, there's not enough arc to attack a low backspin. A good player would be able to loop that attack back, and then it'll take some skills to keep the return short to avoid a power loop.

Yes you can and in fact it is easier to attack heavy backspin with LP than inverted. You can watch some LP tutorials on Chinese internet, basically backspin balls are opportunity balls for LPs. Tbh a lot of LP players don't realize the full potential of LP strokes due to limitations in their base technique.

 

[Ghostzen]

Yes you can and in fact it is easier to attack heavy backspin with LP than inverted. You can watch some LP tutorials on Chinese internet, basically backspin balls are opportunity balls for LPs. Tbh a lot of LP players don't realize the full potential of LP strokes due to limitations in their base technique.

I think the key here is low backspin in the previous comment to be honest and creating arc off that low backspin ball to get it over the net. The next ball has to be a lift as it will be below net height which leaves an opening for that stronger topspin.

 

[NextLevel]

I think the key here is low backspin in the previous comment to be honest and creating arc off that low backspin ball to get it over the net. The next ball has to be a lift as it will be below net height which leaves an opening for that stronger topspin.

It is easy to talk up anything. The proof of the pudding is in the play. Low heavy backspin (or any spin) is hard to attack period and the problem with doing it consistently also comes down to reading the spin and pace perfectly enough to be consistent not just on one shot but for multiple shots in a row on different points. When I play high level pips players, they aren't smashing all my low balls accurately., they have their fair share of makes and misses. And becoming consistent requires a significant amount of practice, quickness to take balls early, which requires a close to the table playing style with reads that not everyone is comfortable with.

 

[Ghostzen]

It is easy to talk up anything. The proof of the pudding is in the play. Low heavy backspin (or any spin) is hard to attack period and the problem with doing it consistently also comes down to reading the spin and pace perfectly enough to be consistent not just on one shot but for multiple shots in a row on different points. When I play high level pips players, they aren't smashing all my low balls accurately., they have their fair share of makes and misses. And becoming consistent requires a significant amount of practice, quickness to take balls early, which requires a close to the table playing style with reads that not everyone is comfortable with.

Agreed NL. The other issues could be producing the speed off the LP to stop a counter

Not trying to hijack this thread with another how easy pips are to play with and how hard they are to play again btw.

Hoping OP finds and develops the backhand. Be good to see.

 

[blahness]

You can't attack backspins strongly though, there's not enough arc to attack a low backspin. A good player would be able to loop that attack back, and then it'll take some skills to keep the return short to avoid a power loop.

How do you get any chance to powerloop against players like this?

LPs are not just defensive - defense only LPs are usually of lower level, similar to inverted players who only push and block.

 

[Ghostzen]

How do you get any chance to powerloop against players like this?

LPs are not just defensive - defense only LPs are usually of lower level, similar to inverted players who only push and block.

Is this the norm or the exception of a LP player?. I would think the exception.

 

[Yuomay]

hey everyone, so I decided to be wise and listen and on the same time tackle my issue of dropping matches because my opponents actually succeeded in exploiting my weaknesses too easily.

So I decided to slow down my backhand rubber But stay inverted. This now gives me an extra option to get out of the backhand corner, I can use placement and specifically depth of blocks and pushes on death balls don’t pop up as much (which is great news for playing against short pips).

 

[Yuomay]

Update !

So I have done the grind, well in progress actually.

I have succeeded to learn/relearn backhand topspin not at the same level as my forehand but strong enough to have something from which I can work.

I have also identified 2 major weaknesses in my backhand game.

1. long serves (no-spin or slight under spin) to my backhand still completely paralyses me
   • So I need to spin them and place them well and keep them low, because almost all opponents that have a good long fast no-spin serve can attack the return if it pops up.
   • Alternative, every once in a while, one step back and chop low
   • I do not have another alternative in my arsenal
2. in-game whenever I play an opponent who puts little to no spin (on purpose or by lack of skill, same result) I struggle hugely with advancing into the shot.
   • Basically the same i would need to do a topspin or a drive but I lack something I did not yet identify, I think footwork or anticipation.

Do you guys have ideas for specific training drills or schemes that could help starting to tackle these two specific weaknesses ?

 

[z0uLess]

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Update !

So I have done the grind, well in progress actually.

I have succeeded to learn/relearn backhand topspin not at the same level as my forehand but strong enough to have something from which I can work.

I have also identified 2 major weaknesses in my backhand game.

solution, change to LP or Anti

1. long serves (no-spin or slight under spin) to my backhand still completely paralyses me
   • So I need to spin them and place them well and keep them low, because almost all opponents that have a good long fast no-spin serve can attack the return if it pops up.
   • Alternative, every once in a while, one step back and chop low
   • I do not have another alternative in my arsenal

long serve, you should learn to use the incoming force and just block the ball back.
make sure you are stepping left and getting behind the ball.

1. in-game whenever I play an opponent who puts little to no spin (on purpose or by lack of skill, same result) I struggle hugely with advancing into the shot.
   • Basically the same i would need to do a topspin or a drive but I lack something I did not yet identify, I think footwork or anticipation.

I believe you are out of position
step into position (foot work)
read the spin and identify the correct timing for the execution of the stroke

Do you guys have ideas for specific training drills or schemes that could help starting to tackle these two specific weaknesses ?

multiball focusing on your 2 weakness would help tremendously

 

[Yuomay]

Amazing! I did not know this channel.

I’m also quite sure I don’t do this “shuffle” between FH ready and BH shot quite explosive enough if I even do it at all.

Positive is that the exercise he proposes is really easy to program on a robot. I’ll be sure to incorporate it in my warmup for a few months

 

[Tyce]

Long serve, you might be much better off standing like 30cm further away from the table. It's a small change that's easy to step in from when you get a short serve, and better to move when you get a long one.

 

[Yuomay]

Long serve, you might be much better off standing like 30cm further away from the table. It's a small change that's easy to step in from when you get a short serve, and better to move when you get a long one.

I do this currently whenever I'm faced to this issue. It is just not my natural position and it hurts my forehand receive. Specifically half long serves.

 

[Yuomay]

multiball focusing on your 2 weakness would help tremendously

I think you are correct and the main issue is indeed footwork, I'll start to adress it with including it in my warm-up routine and work from there.


When you say multi-ball, so for serve this would be to just have somebody serve long at me for an extended period of time ?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think you are correct and the main issue is indeed footwork, I'll start to adress it with including it in my warm-up routine and work from there.


When you say multi-ball, so for serve this would be to just have somebody serve long at me for an extended period of time ?

can be serve or feeding the ball to certain angles that you are not comfortable with

 

[Chrono]

Update !

So I have done the grind, well in progress actually.

I have succeeded to learn/relearn backhand topspin not at the same level as my forehand but strong enough to have something from which I can work.

I have also identified 2 major weaknesses in my backhand game.

1. long serves (no-spin or slight under spin) to my backhand still completely paralyses me
   • So I need to spin them and place them well and keep them low, because almost all opponents that have a good long fast no-spin serve can attack the return if it pops up.
   • Alternative, every once in a while, one step back and chop low
   • I do not have another alternative in my arsenal
2. in-game whenever I play an opponent who puts little to no spin (on purpose or by lack of skill, same result) I struggle hugely with advancing into the shot.
   • Basically the same i would need to do a topspin or a drive but I lack something I did not yet identify, I think footwork or anticipation.

Do you guys have ideas for specific training drills or schemes that could help starting to tackle these two specific weaknesses ?

I have been working on number 1 for a bit. I think my issue was footwork and maybe being too close to table. But, there was also a temporary fix that helped out. I made more of a gap between my elbow and body on my playing arm in ready position. If your footwork isn't there, that is what helped me for a little while to be able to react faster and loop those balls.

As for number 2, I think you are right on footwork and anticipation. I think I also struggle with this a lot. I want to change my mindset to loop every ball and thus change how I approach the ball with my feet as well. If you get lazy like I do, you will end up slapping, punching, and blocking a lot of those balls.

 

[Learning]

Update !

So I have done the grind, well in progress actually.

I have succeeded to learn/relearn backhand topspin not at the same level as my forehand but strong enough to have something from which I can work.

I have also identified 2 major weaknesses in my backhand game.

1. long serves (no-spin or slight under spin) to my backhand still completely paralyses me
   • So I need to spin them and place them well and keep them low, because almost all opponents that have a good long fast no-spin serve can attack the return if it pops up.
   • Alternative, every once in a while, one step back and chop low
   • I do not have another alternative in my arsenal
2. in-game whenever I play an opponent who puts little to no spin (on purpose or by lack of skill, same result) I struggle hugely with advancing into the shot.
   • Basically the same i would need to do a topspin or a drive but I lack something I did not yet identify, I think footwork or anticipation.

Do you guys have ideas for specific training drills or schemes that could help starting to tackle these two specific weaknesses ?

For #1, I also had a problem returning long serves targeting my BH corner. I had to fix my technique and footwork.

My 2 cents: I would also double check your BH drive technique with someone skilled. For footwork, what helped me was that you should find some way to stay on your toes right when the opponent serves, like subtly bouncing on your feet just when the opponent throws the ball up for service. I'm a below-average/average club player BTW.

Edit: I found a video where I make a (very tiny) footwork adjustment in response to a wide BH serve. Without it, I would not be able to return the ball, I think.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Update !

So I have done the grind, well in progress actually.

I have succeeded to learn/relearn backhand topspin not at the same level as my forehand but strong enough to have something from which I can work.

I have also identified 2 major weaknesses in my backhand game.

1. long serves (no-spin or slight under spin) to my backhand still completely paralyses me
   • So I need to spin them and place them well and keep them low, because almost all opponents that have a good long fast no-spin serve can attack the return if it pops up.
   • Alternative, every once in a while, one step back and chop low
   • I do not have another alternative in my arsenal
2. in-game whenever I play an opponent who puts little to no spin (on purpose or by lack of skill, same result) I struggle hugely with advancing into the shot.
   • Basically the same i would need to do a topspin or a drive but I lack something I did not yet identify, I think footwork or anticipation.

Do you guys have ideas for specific training drills or schemes that could help starting to tackle these two specific weaknesses ?

1. always expect a long serve. if its short instead. you have more time to react.
also, because you expect a long serve, expect to make a drive so knees and upper body bent forward. small swing but going forward and need to brush to the ball (use wrist). its about the timing and the stance. even if you are surprised but manage to keep a low stance with knees forward, chances are high your receive will be decent.
2. its difficult to play against no spin you have to try to put your own spin and don't play the ball too hard because if you do play hard and dont manage to have a good contact with the ball it will fly out. I think the thing to focus on is to contact the ball with a closed bat angle ABOVE (so angle less than 45 degrees with horizontal plane). if you do so, its impossible not to brush the ball or the ball would fall, so naturally you would learn to brush the ball quickly if you don't know how to do it already.

 

[Yuomay]

So destiny is playing tours on me, a new trainer arrived at our club yesterday and he actually had us do the excercise proposed in the video shared by @z0uLess.

While this does not yet treat the lowspin ball issues I'm facing, he had me keep my racket much higher than I'm used to. Result, less errors better ball quality.