Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[mattlamperouge]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807154966250.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.358cNdDgNdDg5R&algo_pvid=fb54d795-3241-4870-9097-ba3e1942bf3e&algo_exp_id=fb54d795-3241-4870-9097-ba3e1942bf3e-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%217.32%217.32%21%21%217.32%217.32%21%402101e62517213312581841373e8500%2112000040338181102%21sea%21US%211644340096%21&curPageLogUid=PxpwY29mr64v&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

Kirin rubber is out. Kirin 3 really looks like T3....so I have a feeling they are really similar.

Well @Wakkibatty just described the differences he found...they do look similar and probably share a lot of characteristics & even production techniques. KIRIN rubbers are kinda ment to replace T3 as the cheaper or value Non sticky rubber (while they keep arthur diamond and push Telson 100 as the pro line) But if K3 does have better topsheet grip than T3 while keeping similar sponge performance/feeling that should be very good. T3 is quite good, firm and fast, the problem for most was low grip while brushing i think...im waiting for my sample of K3 and K1, i have high expectations for this line as budget options. I hope K3 is really good so i can offer great value combos with Rxton3 Pro FH/ Kirin 3 BH on Kirin k2 & k3 blades.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Well @Wakkibatty just described the differences he found...they do look similar and probably share a lot of characteristics & even production techniques. KIRIN rubbers are kinda ment to replace T3 as the cheaper or value Non sticky rubber (while they keep arthur diamond and push Telson 100 as the pro line) But if K3 does have better topsheet grip than T3 while keeping similar sponge performance/feeling that should be very good. T3 is quite good, firm and fast, the problem for most was low grip while brushing i think...im waiting for my sample of K3 and K1, i have high expectations for this line as budget options. I hope K3 is really good so i can offer great value combos with Rxton3 Pro FH/ Kirin 3 BH on Kirin k2 & k3 blades.

Let me know.

I'm interested to hear the differences between K3/K5 and T3.

Also I want to know the difference between Euro Diamond and Telson 100.

 

[Wakkibatty]

Is the topsheet grippy? Or is it kinda smooth like T3?

It's definitely grippy, but not hugely so. The spin you get from it is quite adequate, but doesn't blow you away. Rakza 7 or R7soft spins more, as wouldost ESN rubbers.

It really is surprisingly firm out of the box. The sponge isn't as hard as the T100 but it feels harder to play with, as the top sheet is so firm. I'm guessing it will soften up and become a bit more T3 like in terms of speed once it plays in, but it's definitely slower than T3 was. So far I have yet to feel any real catapult effect out of it whatsoever.

The red rubber is probably marginally softer than the black. The black seems like grippy shoe leather, and not the soft pliable type 😂😂 I'm guessing given its overall hardness you only need to change it once every three years or so. I'm also guessing it won't stay this firm for long.... I can see Loki wanting to make it softer and a bit more pliable out of the box.

Much as I like it, I doubt it will stay on my test blade for long, unless a proper play test shows it has as-yet undiscovered properties. Currently it's just a bit too heavy, and a bit too slow to warrant staying on there long term. We'll see how it goes after about 10 hours of play. If it shows no signs of softening up, it'll be coming off, as I like my own set up on the lighter side.

 

[andzejgolot]

I Glued telson 100, the 475 version on hina hayata h2.
Brick but spinny as hell, the tension here is on another level. You feel like ball is going to rubber small bite and bam you break world fastest shot record, but good spin will be here. Dont worry. The throw is medium. I Play really hard shots like Benedeh Olah without spin so I feel this rubber is made for myself. I think Quadri Aruna, Adriana Diaz would love this rubber but spin artists would have a lot of problem to create some special arc on backhand.
There is no arc.
MY friend use bluestorm PRO and this rubber is like Bluestorm Pro +
I used bluegrip C1 and the tension makes Telson 100-475 harder than 60 degree rubber.
Take this funny review as another loki rxton 1-3-5 review because you will really care more about this rubber but for the price you have Darth Vader's rubber.
I forgot...it plays like Dignics 80 but little harder( material is less quality)

 

[Wakkibatty]

I Glued telson 100, the 475 version on hina hayata h2.
Brick but spinny as hell, the tension here is on another level. You feel like ball is going to rubber small bite and bam you break world fastest shot record, but good spin will be here. Dont worry. The throw is medium. I Play really hard shots like Benedeh Olah without spin so I feel this rubber is made for myself. I think Quadri Aruna, Adriana Diaz would love this rubber but spin artists would have a lot of problem to create some special arc on backhand.
There is no arc.
MY friend use bluestorm PRO and this rubber is like Bluestorm Pro +
I used bluegrip C1 and the tension makes Telson 100-475 harder than 60 degree rubber.
Take this funny review as another loki rxton 1-3-5 review because you will really care more about this rubber but for the price you have Darth Vader's rubber.
I forgot...it plays like Dignics 80 but little harder( material is less quality)

Yeah it is a beast!

I had a second hit with my T100 this evening strapped to an OFF - all wood five ply blade made with heavy veneers, and my earlier suspicion was right -- it just loved it.

Prior to that though I tried it on an experimental blade of mine (4mm balsa core / inner soft carbon / thin lauan medials / hard Queensland Walnut Outers. It was an all round balsa cored blade with high flex and hard outers... and the T100 was an entirely different rubber on that blade (still fast, spiny and low throw, and I was finally able to brush loop on the BH side with it. On the flip side though, it also developed a weird, floaty set of middle gears to it thanks to the extra flex. It was downright odd!

When I attached it to a far more standard OFF- all wood attacking blade however, it was a different beast again, but this time it was extremely well mannered. On a dense-cored semi hard all-wood model it just came to life and became downright Tenergy-like, but just faster, and still with that lower throw.

This rubber had always promised Tenergy like performance, and tonight after much mucking around with different blades, it finally delivered. An absolute joy and very easy to use. Didn't have the same high arc as the T05, but that was hardly a deal-breaker, as it was finally manageable, and best of all it didn't lose any top end speed at all.

For $35 Australian on special, and $50 regular price, the T100 is a genuine Tenergy killer. While the Tenergy 05 remains a marginally more polished rubber, the gap between the T100 and the T05 just went from a 10% performance difference, to a 3% performance difference. And that's more than good enough for me. I strongly recommend everybody go grab themself about three or four while they're still cheap, whack one on an Appelgren / Primorac All Wood / Clipper or something similar, and have yourself a whale of a time, smashing everything in sight, and thinking of all that lovely, lovely money you're NOT shelling out to Butterfly on a T05. 🤑🤑🤑🤑😍😍😍😍❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

[Wakkibatty]

Well @Wakkibatty just described the differences he found...they do look similar and probably share a lot of characteristics & even production techniques. KIRIN rubbers are kinda ment to replace T3 as the cheaper or value Non sticky rubber (while they keep arthur diamond and push Telson 100 as the pro line) But if K3 does have better topsheet grip than T3 while keeping similar sponge performance/feeling that should be very good. T3 is quite good, firm and fast, the problem for most was low grip while brushing i think...im waiting for my sample of K3 and K1, i have high expectations for this line as budget options. I hope K3 is really good so i can offer great value combos with Rxton3 Pro FH/ Kirin 3 BH on Kirin k2 & k3 blades.

I spoke too soon on the Kirin 3. 😒

Yes it's fast...in a way. And yes it can spin a bit, but it's downright weird and annoying to use. (Imagine a non-boosted standard H3, but grippy... Or else a very thick and tough, marginally bouncy 729 cross That's a bit what it's like. No catapult effect to speak of whatsoever... Frankly it makes a Focus 3 Snipe look like a Tenergy 64.).

Maybe it'll speed up a bit and go to another performance level once it's played in... But it's performance was just so pedestrian to me I really couldn't be bothered continuing with it to see if it would improve. Some may call that a surface examination, but myself I call it expedient.

Yes beginners and intermediate players will like it for its low price and very linear behaviour, but nobody else is going to bother I think ...especially given just how great the T-100 is for the crazy price of $35. If you can't find another $15 for a rubber that's 10 times better than the Kirin 3 in the T-100 then something is seriously wrong with your budgeting skills. Once I swapped it out for the T-100 I literally immediately forgot the damn thing existed. I won't be attaching it to any of my test blades again anytime soon.

 

[M4rc0H]

The Rxton 7 rubber should be available shortly. It is assambled on the Loki Dragon 10 racket. I have ordered the Dragon 10. A bargain for €33...

 

[netdriver]

I spoke too soon on the Kirin 3. 😒

Yes it's fast...in a way. And yes it can spin a bit, but it's downright weird and annoying to use. (Imagine a non-boosted standard H3, but grippy... Or else a very thick and tough, marginally bouncy 729 cross That's a bit what it's like. No catapult effect to speak of whatsoever... Frankly it makes a Focus 3 Snipe look like a Tenergy 64.).

Maybe it'll speed up a bit and go to another performance level once it's played in... But it's performance was just so pedestrian to me I really couldn't be bothered continuing with it to see if it would improve. Some may call that a surface examination, but myself I call it expedient.

Yes beginners and intermediate players will like it for its low price and very linear behaviour, but nobody else is going to bother I think ...especially given just how great the T-100 is for the crazy price of $35. If you can't find another $15 for a rubber that's 10 times better than the Kirin 3 in the T-100 then something is seriously wrong with your budgeting skills. Once I swapped it out for the T-100 I literally immediately forgot the damn thing existed. I won't be attaching it to any of my test blades again anytime soon.

only one thing left to try; adding a bit of that magic seamoon juice

 

[mattlamperouge]

I spoke too soon on the Kirin 3. 😒

Yes it's fast...in a way. And yes it can spin a bit, but it's downright weird and annoying to use. (Imagine a non-boosted standard H3, but grippy... Or else a very thick and tough, marginally bouncy 729 cross That's a bit what it's like. No catapult effect to speak of whatsoever... Frankly it makes a Focus 3 Snipe look like a Tenergy 64.).

Maybe it'll speed up a bit and go to another performance level once it's played in... But it's performance was just so pedestrian to me I really couldn't be bothered continuing with it to see if it would improve. Some may call that a surface examination, but myself I call it expedient.

Yes beginners and intermediate players will like it for its low price and very linear behaviour, but nobody else is going to bother I think ...especially given just how great the T-100 is for the crazy price of $35. If you can't find another $15 for a rubber that's 10 times better than the Kirin 3 in the T-100 then something is seriously wrong with your budgeting skills. Once I swapped it out for the T-100 I literally immediately forgot the damn thing existed. I won't be attaching it to any of my test blades again anytime soon.

But could work as a budget option for a begginer/intermediate player? Lets say Kirin 2 or kirin 3 blade with Rxton 3 Pro FH + Kirin 3 BH

 

[ttarc]

I couldn't resist and had to boost the Telson 100 a bit... reacts quite strong so only one thin layer. Softer, short game, serves etc. not that different. Still controlled just a bit faster. Arc is a bit higher but I still wouldn't call it medium. As suspected the speed difference between low(er) and high input power shots is smaller/less pronounced. Still fast and crazy fast but somehow feels more natural. Blocking is really easy. With higher humidity it definitely needs a thicker contact but not as worse as e.g. BlueStorm Z2.
Maybe I'm just getting more used to it or maybe the factory boost vanished a bit. Boosted rubber weighed 2g less than unboosted/maybe 4g if I had cut the overhang.
I would suggest either a fast but linear blade (like Viscaria or my 729 Blue Arylates) or something which holds the ball deeply when hitting hard. HL5 type or something like my YEOs. The Telson CNF is to non-linear for me with such a rubber but great when combined with slow(er), linear rubbers.

 

[Wakkibatty]

Oh for Christ's sake ... 🤦🤦

Y'know ...table tennis is a really bloody confounding sport sometimes.

At the risk of sounding like a complete bell-end, It seems I may have potentially spoken too soon, about speaking too soon, about the Kirin 3.

It might not be quite as crap as my first initial play test indicated.... I noticed something late tonight that requires further inspection, and a whole lot of play testing to understand WTF is going on here....

Regardless of how good the Kirin 3 might (or might not) actually be, just like the T-100 with its weird-arse "new kind of hardness" sponge layer, i can safely say the Kirin 3 is also bloody weird!!

We all know the physics of how TT rubbers work right?

We all know don't we, that the sponge is like a one layer of springs, the top sheet another, and the two layers work together to push the ball forwards, while partially gripping the ball at the same time, so the ball spins on it's way out.?

And we all know, that to increase speed you need to push the ball deeper into the sponge so that it pushes the ball forward with more elastic propulsive force... I mean, that's right isn't it?

And we all know right, that to maximize that forward elastic force, you need to hit the ball on your FH side with a semi-open bat angle, because otherwise you won't engage the sponge fully and the pimples work less effectively.

And we also all know right, that the bat angle can't be too closed, as this increases the risk of slippage, and it also means that most of the forward propulsive force is not behind the ball, and your shot isn't efficient, and forward speed is diminished.

We all know these things to be true don't we?

So why hadn't someone told the Kirin 3 that?

Because clearly it doesn't know.

Can someone please explain to me how a rubber can be QUICKER at propelling a ball through the air, when you hit the ball with a very closed racquet angle, and you're NOT engaging the sponge?

Note I didn't say "spinner"... I said 'quicker'.

I was driving the ball with the Kirin 3 just then, in the standard manner, after changing it from the original test blade, to the experimental flexy model.

.. And it's performance still sucked. The sponge was stiff as packing box cardboard, the top sheet was stiff as grippy shoe leather. the sponge didn't want to compress, there was no quality on the ball...just a really bad scene.

But the I closed the bat angle a bit more.

No other changes, no harder hitting, no extra brushing to create spin... I just altered the angle of the bat's incline, to make contact with more of the top of the ball.

I was trying to see if the ball would slip on the rubber.

It didn't slip.

It accelerated.

...I'm sorry -- what???

The goddamn ball started flying faster through the air. And decent spin appeared out of nowhere. And the ball got a bit of arc to it.

I REDUCED the surface area of impact, I REDUCED the amount of forward force going into the ball. I DIDN'T swing harder. I DIDN'T brush the ball more during the stroke. I DIDN'T transfer weight any better...

I just increased the angle of the bat, as if I was facing heavier topspin. THATS IT.

And the ball accelerated, even despite me making slightly thinner contact.

I don't know how such a thing is possible.

But I'm no longer at the table trying to figure it out.

I'm in bed, feeling confused.

I'll have another hit tomorrow or the day after, and see if it does it again.

If it does, I will also do my best to figure out how such a thing is possible.

Stay tuned... And confused.

 

[andzejgolot]

For me T100-475 it is not t05 killer
+ The throw is more friendly on fh side, because there is more chance for thick contact.

 

[lodro]

Oh for Christ's sake ... 🤦🤦

Y'know ...table tennis is a really bloody confounding sport sometimes.

At the risk of sounding like a complete bell-end, It seems I may have potentially spoken too soon, about speaking too soon, about the Kirin 3.

It might not be quite as crap as my first initial play test indicated.... I noticed something late tonight that requires further inspection, and a whole lot of play testing to understand WTF is going on here....

Regardless of how good the Kirin 3 might (or might not) actually be, just like the T-100 with its weird-arse "new kind of hardness" sponge layer, i can safely say the Kirin 3 is also bloody weird!!

We all know the physics of how TT rubbers work right?

We all know don't we, that the sponge is like a one layer of springs, the top sheet another, and the two layers work together to push the ball forwards, while partially gripping the ball at the same time, so the ball spins on it's way out.?

And we all know, that to increase speed you need to push the ball deeper into the sponge so that it pushes the ball forward with more elastic propulsive force... I mean, that's right isn't it?

And we all know right, that to maximize that forward elastic force, you need to hit the ball on your FH side with a semi-open bat angle, because otherwise you won't engage the sponge fully and the pimples work less effectively.

And we also all know right, that the bat angle can't be too closed, as this increases the risk of slippage, and it also means that most of the forward propulsive force is not behind the ball, and your shot isn't efficient, and forward speed is diminished.

We all know these things to be true don't we?

So why hadn't someone told the Kirin 3 that?

Because clearly it doesn't know.

Can someone please explain to me how a rubber can be QUICKER at propelling a ball through the air, when you hit the ball with a very closed racquet angle, and you're NOT engaging the sponge?

Note I didn't say "spinner"... I said 'quicker'.

I was driving the ball with the Kirin 3 just then, in the standard manner, after changing it from the original test blade, to the experimental flexy model.

.. And it's performance still sucked. The sponge was stiff as packing box cardboard, the top sheet was stiff as grippy shoe leather. the sponge didn't want to compress, there was no quality on the ball...just a really bad scene.

But the I closed the bat angle a bit more.

No other changes, no harder hitting, no extra brushing to create spin... I just altered the angle of the bat's incline, to make contact with more of the top of the ball.

I was trying to see if the ball would slip on the rubber.

It didn't slip.

It accelerated.

...I'm sorry -- what???

The goddamn ball started flying faster through the air. And decent spin appeared out of nowhere. And the ball got a bit of arc to it.

I REDUCED the surface area of impact, I REDUCED the amount of forward force going into the ball. I DIDN'T swing harder. I DIDN'T brush the ball more during the stroke. I DIDN'T transfer weight any better...

I just increased the angle of the bat, as if I was facing heavier topspin. THATS IT.

And the ball accelerated, even despite me making slightly thinner contact.

I don't know how such a thing is possible.

But I'm no longer at the table trying to figure it out.

I'm in bed, feeling confused.

I'll have another hit tomorrow or the day after, and see if it does it again.

If it does, I will also do my best to figure out how such a thing is possible.

Stay tuned... And confused.

First up matey : Take 2 panadols and ring me in the morning 🤣

Ok, now sit in your car, drive at moderate speed and stick your hand out of the window , hold the flat hand against the wind and accelerate the car until it nearly breaks your arm from the wind resistance, now twist you hand 90 degrees, enjoy = the wind pressure is gone.

Ergo : when you change the angle of of the bat and brush , your arm movent is likely to be considerably faster because you have reduced the wind resistance .
Also, the added topspin will force the ball down on the table, so the shot becomes shorter but you will instinctively end up hitting the ball a bit harder etc etc etc..........


Oh shit, now after writing so much crap it is me who needs to panadols 😵‍💫
😵

 

[andzejgolot]

I dont know how and why telson 100 is so spinny and fast at the same time and grip is so good.
Loki you made it!

 

[TensorBackhand]

I dont know how and why telson 100 is so spinny and fast at the same time and grip is so good.
Loki you made it!

I think Loki could do some contract manufacturing for the other big brands.

Rxton 9 and Telson 100 sound like good candidates for a Tibhar to have a tacky option and a "japanese feel" option.

 

[andzejgolot]

Like haifu did for Tibhar ?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Like haifu did for Tibhar ?

I don't know. What rubber was that?

 

[andzejgolot]

Haifu did Grip-S

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I don't know. What rubber was that?

Tibhar sourced the Grip-S series from Haifu (based on Blue Whale) and Donic did the same for the Traction series (White Shark)

 

[MonkeyDLuffy]

What hardness does Telson 100 come in? Is it similar hardness to Moon 12 M+ (Mid-Hard) ?