China Smash 2024, Beijing, 9/26-10/6

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My theory is that ML has set the bar so high by winning every major single title twice, he is now playing to enjoy rather than winning these major titles the third time.

Maybe this mentality + experience allow him to play without too much pressure = perform well at crucial moments.
 
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When Ma Long is looking so fresh and motivated like he is for this tournament, he is pretty hard to stop.

Guy is just the most complete player with barely any weakness, knows how to play every single shot in the game (yes even BH-BH and BH chiquita with all its variations).

LJK is just worse at almost everything except maybe BH power and spin levels, and that's usually not enough to win against Ma Long. You really need to overpower him on both wings, be faster and exploit his wide FH with high quality BH feints to win these days like what FZD has done.

Tbh, without serve/receive tricks from WCQ, Ma Long is still a better player than WCQ. I would place Ma Long second to only FZD (at this point in time) generally.

tbh ML's greatest strength is his consistency. Let's say ML's max ability is 98, FZD is 100 and WCQ is 100.

Between tournaments ML's ability varies between 97.6-98, FZD 96-100 and WCQ 90-100. That's why ML is extremely reliable
 
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Lol, it's really amazing to see how he's transformed over the years. You see the variations in his game and his personality now, but I remember the days when people called him a Chinese robot :ROFLMAO:
Chinese robot? LOL. He is the most agile player in history, far, far away from being robotic. I guess people call him robot is because he has the perfect strikes most of the time, making very few mistake or being put in a awkward position which has a lot to do his out-this-world agility and anticipation.
 
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I'm not talking pro level
find a random club any where on this planet and put those ages together, you can't really say who will win.
This is even applicable to China's amateur circuit. This uncles in the clubs or parks. Don't allow the grey hair fool you.

from Pros put of view, there are a couple of 48 years old in the European leagues
put them against CNT B team, 15~18 year olds for example, I think the 48 would still win (especially looking how CNT B are failing in Doha).
At amateur level, it's true. However, at the same skill level, age is still an important factor, which is why in US nationals and many big events, there are age limited brackets, like U50, U60, U65, etc.
 
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Chinese robot? LOL. He is the most agile player in history, far, far away from being robotic. I guess people call him robot is because he has the perfect strikes most of the time, making very few mistake or being put in a awkward position which has a lot to do his out-this-world agility and anticipation.

I've watched a lot of ML interviews and documentaries on Bilibili. One of the thing they repeatedly said was ML's introverted level of discipline. He was more disciplined and "less fun" than other athletes in his early 20s. He wasn't that popular due to this reason.

As many of you can tell ML is a perfectionist and stubborn in fine details (remind me of Steve Jobs 🤣). He would train and train just to make sure certain moves are satisfactory to his standard.


Hence the GOAT
 
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Chinese robot? LOL. He is the most agile player in history, far, far away from being robotic. I guess people call him robot is because he has the perfect strikes most of the time, making very few mistake or being put in a awkward position which has a lot to do his out-this-world agility and anticipation.
To be fair, his skillset was a lot more limited when he first burst out on the scene which is when ppl were saying these things. His skillset has really grown tremendously. If you pitted current Ma Long over say 2009 Ma Long, current Ma Long is probably much stronger lol.
 
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When Ma Long is looking so fresh and motivated like he is for this tournament, he is pretty hard to stop.

Guy is just the most complete player with barely any weakness, knows how to play every single shot in the game (yes even BH-BH and BH chiquita with all its variations).

LJK is just worse at almost everything except maybe BH power and spin levels, and that's usually not enough to win against Ma Long. You really need to overpower him on both wings, be faster and exploit his wide FH with high quality BH feints to win these days like what FZD has done.

Tbh, without serve/receive tricks from WCQ, Ma Long is still a better player than WCQ. I would place Ma Long second to only FZD (at this point in time) generally.
Ma Long second only to FZD? Remember, ML's overall record H2H against FZD is better, not just a little better. Actually, FZD completed his grand slam only at Paris(where ML didn't even play the event) is a testimony how ML had been dominated him over the years considering FZD started competing at the highest level at 16. You can say, ML's age has something to do with it.

In table tennis, individual offensive technique, mainly forehand and backhand power, is not enough to win your games against a great player.
 
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To be fair, his skillset was a lot more limited when he first burst out on the scene which is when ppl were saying these things. His skillset has really grown tremendously. If you pitted current Ma Long over say 2009 Ma Long, current Ma Long is probably much stronger lol.
I'll say ML has kept evolving over the years which is one the hardest thing, if not the hardest, to do in a fast changing sport. However, the agility, quickness, feelings and fundamentals have been always there even when he was very young, which was the reason he was picked up very early in talent scout.
 
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Ma Long second only to FZD? Remember, ML's overall record H2H against FZD is better, not just a little better. Actually, FZD completed his grand slam only at Paris(where ML didn't even play the event) is a testimony how ML had been dominated him over the years considering FZD started competing at the highest level at 16. You can say, ML's age has something to do with it.

In table tennis, individual offensive technique, mainly forehand and backhand power, is not enough to win your games against a great player.
True but most of those matches were prime Ma Long V young and developing FZD. My thought is that their primes didn't really overlap unfortunately as Fan hit his when Ma Long took his year out.
The more recent record is 5-1 to FZD.
But as Ma Long has adapted and adjusted his game in the past few years I would love to see them play a competitive game right now!
 
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Damn ML, that rest after the Olympics really did some good. Does he still have enough in the tank to go a best-of-7 against LSD?

Why didn't LJK call a timeout, especially when he had game point in the 4th set? What was he saving it for?
Something is smelly about all this but I am probably just paranoid. All the overtly humble and grateful interviews, the largely smooth victories, the way every spinny forehand lands on the table... he has something in his back pocket that he isn't sharing. And the ITTF, WTT and CTTA are all in on it.
 
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Well that's LJ out of the equation anyway, a great match but pretty comprehensive in the end.
What do you reckon for the final based on what you've seen today?
I think Lin is too powerful in the rallies so a lot will depend upon how well he handles Ma Long's serve and receive game. Ma Long is doing something I cannot put my finger on but is the favorite now.
 
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I think Lin is too powerful in the rallies so a lot will depend upon how well he handles Ma Long's serve and receive game. Ma Long is doing something I cannot put my finger on but is the favorite now.
I think back to the world Cup final and his change of approach where he blocked more and controled the final 4 sets that way. The 3 sets prior were the reverse where LGY used Ma's power against him but couldn't generate the power himself to beat ML.
That was my interpretation of it anyway and I think he uses that very well and switches between attack and counter so well that I think opponents don't know sometimes if they should attack or not 😂
Oversimplifying of course but as you said, he's definitely doing something!
 
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At amateur level, it's true. However, at the same skill level, age is still an important factor, which is why in US nationals and many big events, there are age limited brackets, like U50, U60, U65, etc.
I don't think US has many O50, O60, etc high level players.
if any, those don't play any more, they only coach full time.

while in Asia, you have a lot of O50, O60, O70 playing north of 5 day a week,
and they only play matches
that is say about 15 hours a week, to maybe 20 hours a week.
That is more hours than some tier 2 or tier 3 countries pros.
 
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Something is smelly about all this but I am probably just paranoid. All the overtly humble and grateful interviews, the largely smooth victories, the way every spinny forehand lands on the table... he has something in his back pocket that he isn't sharing. And the ITTF, WTT and CTTA are all in on it.
12-10 in the fourth against Zeng looked totally smooth victory..
 
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Ma Long second only to FZD? Remember, ML's overall record H2H against FZD is better, not just a little better. Actually, FZD completed his grand slam only at Paris(where ML didn't even play the event) is a testimony how ML had been dominated him over the years considering FZD started competing at the highest level at 16. You can say, ML's age has something to do with it.

In table tennis, individual offensive technique, mainly forehand and backhand power, is not enough to win your games against a great player.
ML could have probably achieved much more without the ban from CNT. One more WTTC title and Olympics gold might be possible.

And the ML today, I don't see anyone can beat him, even the primetime FZD.
 
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I'm sick of WTT's edited matches. I pretty much always missed the first session because of time zones and that's fine, but I want to catch up yet uploads are still so late in the later rounds that you will be spoiled anyway and they keep skipping points it infuriates so much that I might be just done with anything outside livestreams. Just now I wanted to watch the ML vs Hugo match, but they started the second game at 7-3. HOW do you even skip so many points?! Even in the Bruna vs SHW match that was a clean 3-0 victory and only five minutes long they skipped points. Give me back the ITTF Pro tour.
 
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Dude
You been calling for retirement before wtt even existed.
Your logic is really flawed. Stop trying to justify your actions because of me, you been doing this for decades.
Just admit it, you have a thing for 23 year old Japanese girls retirement!

These are top players that are really good, way better than you. No matter how or what Ishikawa has done for TT over the years, they achieved heights that you will never reach as a couch potato, oh I mean JNT head coach.

You ever wonder why a couple of forum members here said you should retire? I can be joking about wang32 should retire, but you make it your daily bread to diss the Japanese girls.

PS, I was never a Ito fan and I disagree with a lot of things she does, but she has a damn good player. Now do you agree, or you think you still the god you want to be?
Don't deflect my question. Answer it. And if you're on to retrospective period, address my other question as well. Your change of stance over the last decade has been irrational. I've made my case by posting evidence of those players openly addressing the topic of retirement at 23 years old. Take it or leave it. Knock yourself out with your attitudes.

As for your argument that those players being way better than me, it makes no logical sense either. While I'm an amateur without the skills to play the game/execute tactics at their level, it doesn't necessarily mean I don't know/can't see what they need to do to win. For instance, I insisted Hirano had to slow her game down (1, 2) back at Austrian Open 2017. Hirano admitted it in 2019 that she could win just by playing fast in the past but everyone had caught on and played like her. It took her until 2023 to show results and she said varying the pace was crucial in beating SYS (07/05/2023 at 7:39am). As another example, I already noted how Hayata hit too hard at times back in late 2019. Hayata said it took her until 2023 to fix it.

Last example. MATSUSAKI Daisuke, Ito's former coach, is actually an amateur as well. Having seen his multi-ball session with Ito, I'd argue Minori-san is better than him. Ironically, it is exactly someone like him who coached Ito into an Olympic gold medalist that plunged the CNT into 5 years of fear.
 
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Don't deflect my question. Answer it. And if you're on to retrospective period, address my other question as well. Your change of stance over the last decade has been irrational. I've made my case by posting evidence of those players openly addressing the topic of retirement at 23 years old. Take it or leave it. Knock yourself out with your attitudes.

As for your argument that those players being way better than me, it makes no logical sense either. While I'm an amateur without the skills to play the game/execute tactics at their level, it doesn't necessarily mean I don't know/can't see what they need to do to win. For instance, I insisted Hirano had to slow her game down (1, 2) back at Austrian Open 2017. Hirano admitted it in 2019 that she could win just by playing fast in the past but everyone had caught on and played like her. It took her until 2023 to show results and she said varying the pace was crucial in beating SYS (07/05/2023 at 7:39am). As another example, I already noted how Hayata hit too hard at times back in late 2019. Hayata said it took her until 2023 to fix it.

Last example. MATSUSAKI Daisuke, Ito's former coach, is actually an amateur as well. Having seen his multi-ball session with Ito, I'd argue Minori-san is better than him. Ironically, it is exactly someone like him who coached Ito into an Olympic gold medalist that plunged the CNT into 5 years of fear.
honestly, your posts are all too long, with too much links and pictures often, so I just jump through it (i don't have the energy or time like you to spend on forums)
i don't really know what your question is, but your logic is flawed and I surely don't need to justify myself for your flaws?

because CNT can retire its players, it does not give you the privileged to do the same for other countries players, even if it is on table tennis forum
who do you think you are?
because China is the number 1 country in TT, you can bully other players on the internet?

CNT retiring players is a sad but silence topic and yet you go on for years about retiring some of Japanese greatest ever.
as I said, you are just a couch potato, and have something against Japanese womens for what ever reason unknown to me. But end of the day, Ito is there on her own merit and she does not need to make way for a player that plays 3 events in 200+ days in 2024, or even loose to Korean players for other players to have a chance.

sports is about fair competition, you not good enough, then go cry in the background and come back and beat the stronger player.
Ito is ranked high due to her ability and her paricipation, not some corruption and should be investigated.
you are asking for highly ranked players to retire, because you don't like her here or there or whatever.
its sports competition, not a popularity contest for petes sake

and for the player you want to have played in Smash, well, she needs to take part in more WTT and up her rating...
3 events in 2024 at time of entry deadline for Smash....while every one else is 5 to 7 times that.
and here you go jumping up and down and blaming it on Ito....
i'm glad your kids are not on the WTT circuit, Karen like mom approach
 
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Yep, LJK plays a bit too much like ZJK - too much late timing spin oriented balls which can trouble other players but not Ma Long. This is why they seldom win against Ma Long.

To win against Ma Long you generally need to outpower and outspeed him while maintaining very good consistency, which is why Harimoto and Lin Yun Ju actually have relatively more wins against Ma Long...
In hindsight, ZJK is actually comparable to FZD. One could argue FZD is worse considering 6 of his wins came in 2019 and later when ML was over 30.

International H2H as of China Smash 2024
WH 12 H2H 11 ML
XX 10 H2H 22 ML
FZD 7 H2H 17 ML (3 wins in 2019, 1 in 2020, 1 in 2022, 1 in 2023)
ZJK 6 H2H 13 ML
LGY 2 H2H 8 ML
LJK 1 H2H 6 ML

Samsonov 5 H2H 8 ML
LYJ 4 H2H 6
Boll 4 H2H 17
Franziska 2 H2H 2
Harimoto 2 H2H 4
 
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