WTT Champions Frankfurt 2024

[NextLevel]

Correct. That is in line with the definition of "much" according to the actual "arbiter of words" aka the dictionary. Do you not acknowledge it would have been better worded to just say it is a recent trend?

You are quite right that the recent trend shouldn't qualify as much. Unless we want to start redefining words.

 

[turbozed]

So Gauzy is 29 or so, maybe 30. He was a WJTTC top prospect in 2011 . He was at the top of Europe un 2016/2017. How do you define much of his career?

I use the dictionary definition, which is "a great amount"

You and @ThePongCommenter are using your own definition, which requires some sort of majority of the whole. That's an acceptable definition to me as some people would agree to that. In any case, I made it clear I was referring to the last several years, so not sure why both of you are arguing a moot point.

But now that I'm constantly addressing every question you're asking me, and using your own words in context and without misrepresentation, maybe you can finally address my very pointed and specific questions:

1. Why did you insist on misrepresenting that what was being argued was the entirety of Gauzy's career when we were only talking about "much"?
2. Why are you insisting that what was talked about was Gauzy being ahead in games but ultimately losing when it was clear that we were just talking about "close" games?
3. When my post was specifically to move the goalposts back from the 'entirety' to 'much', why did you fail completely to even acknowledge my point that you were doing it, which was the main point of the post?

I don't expect much from online discussions, but I have come to expect a very high level of discourse from you specifically. So it's bizarre and disappointing that you've decided to abandon principles of fair play in this specific discussion when you've been keen to honor them in multiple discussions in the past.

 

[NextLevel]

I use the dictionary definition, which is "a great amount"

You and @ThePongCommenter are using your own definition, which requires some sort of majority of the whole. That's an acceptable definition to me as some people would agree to that. In any case, I made it clear I was referring to the last several years, so not sure why both of you are arguing a moot point.

But now that I'm constantly addressing every question you're asking me, and using your own words in context and without misrepresentation, maybe you can finally address my very pointed and specific questions:

1. Why did you insist on misrepresenting that what was being argued was the entirety of Gauzy's career when we were only talking about "much"?
2. Why are you insisting that what was talked about was Gauzy being ahead in games but ultimately losing when it was clear that we were just talking about "close" games?
3. When my post was specifically to move the goalposts back from the 'entirety' to 'much', why did you fail completely to even acknowledge my point that you were doing it, which was the main point of the post?

I don't expect much from online discussions, but I have come to expect a very high level of discourse from you specifically. So it's bizarre and disappointing that you've decided to abandon principles of fair play in this specific discussion when you've been keen to honor them in multiple discussions in the past.

1. Because the last 2-3 years isn't much of his career, especially for someone who was a notable junior. And our arguments didn't rest on the entirety of his career, our arguments were trying to understand how one got to the idea that much of his career was the last few years. So what we wanted was something that showed us how this argument was not simply recency bias run amok.

2. Because "close" games are common in TT and we were trying to understand what made Gauzy different from players like Anders Lind. Kiril Gerassimenko, Kofi Niwa, Anton Kallberg, who have all had lots of close matches with the Chinese and other top ranked players and often lost.

3. Because we are not convinced that you have come close to making the argument of much of his career for someone who was already a known quantity in 2011. His adult career is at least 12 years. I believe he was already French champion in 2015. You haven't even seriously made the case that the last 2-3 years qualify has much of his career. In the end while the discussion is partly semantic, I don't even think you have really bridged the gap on substance. If there was some attempt to show that Gauzy had these losses in a lot of his 13 plus year career or even 9 year drinking age in the USA career, maybe this would have been less of an issue. But there hasn't been any serious attempt before Tony's posts to show that there is a familiarity with Gauzy as a talented junior and young national champion and that the results he is having now are typical of many parts (or much) of his career. I might have missed these attempts so I will happily read them if they are pointed out to me.

If 2 years is a great amount of anyone's professional career, feel free to take that route. People would struggle to consider 2 years a great amount of Felix Lebruns career and he is only 18!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I watched many of those matches. Honestly, Gauzy had the same experience many players had playing the Chinese.Koki Niwa, Lee Sang Su. The old elo system made it easier to rank and measure strength. Gauzy is nit a specially tragic figure in the era of Chinese domination. That the Lebruns have pushed him back further is unfortunate but it has also given him a medal. But I do not remember any of these matches as evidence Gauzy was something other than who he is. His play in the last two years has been impressive but he is now playing behind better players.

Yeah
And he just cant compete with Chinese
As per pong commenter

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

When did LYJ career start?
We going to say 6 years old?
Or Ma Long, 13 years old when he entered cnt?

Based on that logic, ma long for much of his career, he has a loosing track record.

You guys are stuck with the word career and then not acknowledging that he can challenge the chinese while on it.

I agree, goalposts shift so many times.

Ok, gauzy only able to challenge chinese past 2 years, the previous times are all fake and the there was no game win, and all games were under 5.

This is getting really boring now. Not even real stats work anymore 😂

Not even the best footballer can follow goal posts moves when taking a shot

 

[NextLevel]

Yeah
And he just cant compete with Chinese
As per pong commenter

He explained what he meant in full detail. Lots of players have struggled to beat the Chinese in close matches and in that regard, Gauzy is not unique. I suspect if he didn't train with the Lebruns, he would struggle more against them like everyone else.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He explained what he meant in full detail. Lots of players have struggled to beat the Chinese in close matches and in that regard, Gauzy is not unique. I suspect if he didn't train with the Lebruns, he would struggle more against them like everyone else.

How do you know he trains with Lebruns?

 

[NextLevel]

When did LYJ career start?
We going to say 6 years old?
Or Ma Long, 13 years old when he entered cnt?

Based on that logic, ma long for much of his career, he has a loosing track record.

You guys are stuck with the word career and then not acknowledging that he can challenge the chinese while on it.

I agree, goalposts shift so many times.

Ok, gauzy only able to challenge chinese past 2 years, the previous times are all fake and the there was no game win, and all games were under 5.

This is getting really boring now. Not even real stats work anymore 😂

Not even the best footballer can follow goal posts moves when taking a shot

Feel free to define career as reasonably as you want, you will realize that you are just arguing for arguing sake. LYJ is 22 i believe but has been a profession for at least 6 years, maybe even more. The way TT works, many juniors are on a professional path when they are already playing for their national teams and travelling to multiple tournaments. But if you want to have fun rather than accept that any reasonable definition of Gauzy's career will not make the last 2-3 years much of it, go ahead, it is good to know the lengths to which people will go to win arguments.

 

[NextLevel]

How do you know he trains with Lebruns?

The French national team trained together for Olympic preparation

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The French national team trained together for Olympic preparation

So they trained together for the past 2 years to help Gauzy with his better results, ok, got it!

 

[ThePongCommenter]

So they trained together for the past 2 years to help Gauzy with his better results, ok, got it!

What a sad comment. He was clearly referring to Gauzy keeping things closer with the Lebruns due to their familiarity gained through practicing together, but you are desperate to find an argument lol.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Feel free to define career as reasonably as you want, you will realize that you are just arguing for arguing sake. LYJ is 22 i believe but has been a profession for at least 6 years, maybe even more. The way TT works, many juniors are on a professional path when they are already playing for their national teams and travelling to multiple tournaments. But if you want to have fun rather than accept that any reasonable definition of Gauzy's career will not make the last 2-3 years much of it, go ahead, it is good to know the lengths to which people will go to win arguments.

We call professional career from the moment player moves into senior circuit. We don’t count juniors.

otherwise there are too many professionals that retire before they even graduate from being a teenager 😂

 

[ThePongCommenter]

We call professional career from the moment player moves into senior circuit. We don’t count juniors.

otherwise there are too many professionals that retire before they even graduate from being a teenager 😂

Right so Gauzy entered the senior circuit in 2012, so what are we talking about as "much of his career" here?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What a sad comment. He was clearly referring to Gauzy keeping things closer with the Lebruns due to their familiarity gained through practicing together, but you are desperate to find an argument lol.

Lebrun wasnt around when gauzy was beating the chinese or having close games i listed.
Or maybe they secretly helped gauzy and you guys know

 

[NextLevel]

So they trained together for the past 2 years to help Gauzy with his better results, ok, got it!

These kinds of arguments are unfortunate. There were multiple events that the team got together for as preparation for the 2024 Olympics. After all. He had to get to be Alexis doubles partner and Pavade's XD partner. All the pros i have ever discussed TT with tell me that hitting with a better player for a significant period even if short always has an impact on your game. That and the pressure to compete to try to play Olympic singles put the pressure on Gauzy to make many changes. No one is pretending that every single improvement from Gauzy came from the Lebruns. But anyone claiming none of it did is just ignorant about TT or pretending to be to win arguments.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Right so Gauzy entered the senior circuit in 2012, so what are we talking about here?

Yep and he was only good from around 2016 onwards,
So if you want to look at this logic
Ma long isnt any better, agree?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Goal post move now to training with lebruns 😂

Sure
You guys win
I can’t keep up with the move.

Before lebrun entered, gauzy was training with the rest of the lebrun family!!

 

[NextLevel]

I apologize to TTD for getting involved in any of this. I am out.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I apologize to TTD for getting involved in any of this. I am out.

It all started when your friend said gauzy cant compete with the chinese
And you backed him on such claims.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

No wonder gauzy can beat xu xin
He has felix to train with!