HOT DAMN !!! This coach teaches FH Slow/Heavy loop exactly every key point Der_Echte values !!!

[NextLevel]

One of the videos which I never really understood. How should your wrist now move, during VH Loop?

It assumes some things that it doesn't make explicit about thr way you approach the ball. But the main point is not to spin upwards, but to spin forwards. The other subtle point that is easy to miss is that a windshield wiper goes up and down and forms a mound/mountain.

 

[Zezima]

I just wanted to quickly add that in the video he was talking about half long balls.
With the way how its translated you would get fu** over if the ball actually would land on the table the 2nd time.
I see pro players loop even those that would land the 2nd time on the table unlike how its shown in the video.

It seems to be more for those longer balls obviously. But sometimes its hard to judge and it seems very risky. I would rather have a plan B

 

[NextLevel]

I just wanted to quickly add that in the video he was talking about half long balls.
With the way how its translated you would get fu** over if the ball actually would land on the table the 2nd time.
I see pro players loop even those that would land the 2nd time on the table unlike how its shown in the video.

It seems to be more for those longer balls obviously. But sometimes its hard to judge and it seems very risky. I would rather have a plan B

When you develop the hand speed and can judge the ball after a lot of practice, it becomes far less risky than you think, even when your paddle hits the table.

 

[dingyibvs]

I struggle with these kind of videos especially from this channel. I have seen many other videos where they talk about a concept when to hit and also how - The way they demonstrate it doesn´t match with how they actually play the stroke out.

The teachings from their channel can be helpful, but just don't take them literally. They've all been trained since they were little kids, they learned by feel, so they're teaching you by feel. The key in this stroke is to let the ball fall significantly before looping. It's a safe stroke which is very effective at lower levels.

 

[dingyibvs]

I just wanted to quickly add that in the video he was talking about half long balls.
With the way how its translated you would get fu** over if the ball actually would land on the table the 2nd time.
I see pro players loop even those that would land the 2nd time on the table unlike how its shown in the video.

It seems to be more for those longer balls obviously. But sometimes its hard to judge and it seems very risky. I would rather have a plan B

If you can't judge the ball then you need to work on that. There's no way around it, it's the first step to any successful stroke.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Tried it yesterday at my practice. Luv it, the higher rotation caused by this new technique of brushing the ball below the table really messes with my opponents timing and prediction. The ball also kicks up and to the side too, messes even more with my opponent's timing.

 

[blahness]

I think waiting for it to drop below the table is just a mental construct in order to wait for the ball to come to you, rather than rushing and reaching out for the ball. The exact height of contact doesnt really matter that much imo. Against half long imo it is better to assume it is short first so your hand remains high above the table, and then adjust with the body rotation as it exits the table. However you do need a technique that allows you to take the ball late over the table if your anticipation is wrong. For me that is the sideswipe or a slow long spinny push.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It seems to be more for those longer balls obviously. But sometimes its hard to judge and it seems very risky. I would rather have a plan B

judging is all part of training. and when you do this drill for 15 mins every day, 5 days a week, for few years, you can judge it better of course.

for those landing the 2nd time, and on the white line, before the ball lands - any where between table surface to net height, is all attackable.
only difference is angle of blade, or contact point on the rubber.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Tried it yesterday at my practice. Luv it, the higher rotation caused by this new technique of brushing the ball below the table really messes with my opponents timing and prediction. The ball also kicks up and to the side too, messes even more with my opponent's timing.

i did this with an Austrian junior who doesn't spin the ball enough.
hitting too flat on the forehand
so I forced her to wait for the ball to dip and practice brushing.

need to be able to feel the ball in the brush, that is what control is and then you can know how much spin you want to put on, at what kind of arc, and what kind of speed and then to have a kick in the ball or not.

This way, you can really cause difficulties to the opponents timing.
Trust me, even high level players struggle implementing or mastering the above

 

[Amayzde]

I think waiting for it to drop below the table is just a mental construct in order to wait for the ball to come to you, rather than rushing and reaching out for the ball. The exact height of contact doesnt really matter that much imo. Against half long imo it is better to assume it is short first so your hand remains high above the table, and then adjust with the body rotation as it exits the table. However you do need a technique that allows you to take the ball late over the table if your anticipation is wrong. For me that is the sideswipe or a slow long spinny push.

Sorry I have to disagree. I think its bad to assume short a short return first. Because unless you play at a semi-pro level, 99/100 pushes will go long. Most people dont practice short returns enough.

 

[jk1980]

Sorry I have to disagree. I think its bad to assume short a short return first. Because unless you play at a semi-pro level, 99/100 pushes will go long. Most people dont practice short returns enough.

any high level coach i had always told me to expect long and if it is short you can still go for the emergency push.
having the hand over the table when reacting to the receive of your ball is only to be used when your serve makes sure that the ball is going to be put short and forehand flippable which means you served topspin, no spin or little backspin (usually to the opponents short backhand).

 

[Zezima]

It´s not bad to expect the serve short first. Usually I adapt during/after the first set. Because there are still some players who can serve long or randomly throw in a half long. And you can practise this for 15 years with the same player and you will know his serves in that hall on that table sure. But then you go play a tournament in a different hall vs a new player and then it gets very difficult.
Me personally I am bad at receiving long or half long serves (attacking them). Thats why they keep serving me those serves unless I make a very big statement the first time they serve me like that. Some people want you to loop that ball and then just smash it back. Thats also why I push it back even though I could loop it.

 

[blahness]

Sorry I have to disagree. I think its bad to assume short a short return first. Because unless you play at a semi-pro level, 99/100 pushes will go long. Most people dont practice short returns enough.

Hmm it depends on who you play against.

i was referring more as a serve return. Even at intermediate level there are a lot of true double bounce serves which cannot be looped outright.

 

[Metaxa]

Old school but still THE reference to have a good basic technique. Many a current player had better learn this before they think they are Ma Long. By the way with pushing idem, I sometimes wonder if (new) members of a club still learn this basic stroke or does it all have to be as fast as possible these days. First learn to step before walking.
In other words, there is nothing wrong with the video at all. I learnt it that way 49 years ago too

 

[vossi39]

It assumes some things that it doesn't make explicit about thr way you approach the ball. But the main point is not to spin upwards, but to spin forwards. The other subtle point that is easy to miss is that a windshield wiper goes up and down and forms a mound/mountain.

I still try to imagine. If I hold my hand and arm in front of me (with the back of my hand pointing upward), then the motion of my wrist left to right is limited and the motion up and down is much bigger. Therefore my wrist during loop should be moving back to front (up and down motion if my arm is in front of me) instead of down to up (left and right, if my arm is in front of me).
Did I get this right?

A bit contrary to letting the ball fall under table heigth. I imagine my wrist will only be able to move down to up. But that was discussed already.

 

[NetProphet]

Old school but still THE reference to have a good basic technique. Many a current player had better learn this before they think they are Ma Long. By the way with pushing idem, I sometimes wonder if (new) members of a club still learn this basic stroke or does it all have to be as fast as possible these days. First learn to step before walking.
In other words, there is nothing wrong with the video at all. I learnt it that way 49 years ago too

The issue with the video was he says repeatedly to wait for the ball to fall below the table height but then shows ~20 loops where he clearly hits the ball above table height.
So, to anyone new, which is it?
Starting from scratch do you practice what he shows or try yourself to practice what he says?

 

[NextLevel]

I still try to imagine. If I hold my hand and arm in front of me (with the back of my hand pointing upward), then the motion of my wrist left to right is limited and the motion up and down is much bigger. Therefore my wrist during loop should be moving back to front (up and down motion if my arm is in front of me) instead of down to up (left and right, if my arm is in front of me).
Did I get this right?

A bit contrary to letting the ball fall under table heigth. I imagine my wrist will only be able to move down to up. But that was discussed already.

Different players are speaking about different things specific to different situations. No point combining all the videos to create a new confusion.

How the wrist moves is also not necessarily how the body or arm is moving at the same time. The main point the coach in the video was discussing was that playing forehands with an extreme backhand grip limits your ability to generate and and adjust to spin(he used Lin Gaoyuan and his fixing of those issues as an example). If you want to take that and apply it to a slow spin vs underspin shot, that is okay but you have to realize that you don't need to lift the ball with your wrist when you are already adjusting to the spin with your body technique.

 

[Metaxa]

The issue with the video was he says repeatedly to wait for the ball to fall below the table height but then shows ~20 loops where he clearly hits the ball above table height.
So, to anyone new, which is it?
Starting from scratch do you practice what he shows or try yourself to practice what he says?

Touch point is indeed clearly above table height but beyond the ‘baseline’ and no longer above the playing surface, and the ball is also already in decline. As it should be with a looping/top spin. But I think he meant that you have to start low with your arm (knee, calf) and then finish high and forward without breaking off your movement

 

[NetProphet]

Touch point is indeed clearly above table height but beyond the ‘baseline’ and no longer above the playing surface

How is the touch point above the table height but below the table surface?

But I think he meant that you have to start low with your arm (knee, calf) and then finish high and forward without breaking off your movement

This is my point, it's a poor video.
He says one thing but generally does another.
I've watched it again and 2 or 3 of the loops may have just been below table height but most looked above it....

When you say "there is nothing wrong with the video at all", that is maybe that's because you can already do the shot since 50 yrs ago but I would class it a poor coaching video because of the ambiguity 🤷

 

[Metaxa]

How is the touch point above the table height but below the table surface?

This is my point, it's a poor video.
He says one thing but generally does another.
I've watched it again and 2 or 3 of the loops may have just been below table height but most looked above it....

When you say "there is nothing wrong with the video at all", that is maybe that's because you can already do the shot since 50 yrs ago but I would class it a poor coaching video because of the ambiguity 🤷

No I wrote: Touch point is indeed clearly above table height but beyond the ‘baseline’ and no longer above the playing surface. I did not write anywhere that it is below the playing surface. But he would indeed be better off ‘dropping’ the ball longer. I also think, to give a better example, he would take a step backwards so that he is slightly further from the table to give a better video example. On the initial screen of his video, you can also see a cross above the playing surface. So that's where you should already not hit the ball for a looping/top spin.
But clearly he knows what he is talking about but his execution is not quite right.
To be clear, I have been playing my topspins pretty much from under the table for years. Sometimes slow with a high arc, sometimes fast with little effect (then from table height), sometimes with side spin, etc....