Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[backspacer]

Otto playing for fun in Germany.

 

[boretennis]

played my first tournament on the weekend. out of hundreds of players of all ages i spotted one pensionist with a stiga ready-made, apart from that it was butterfly butterfly butterfly. denmark seems to be completely monopolised which only increased my aversion. at least the balls were chinese.

 

[yamagata]

With my new bat I actually won a match yesterday. And the balls I won was when oppo missed my 2nd or 3rd push. If I tried to loop or drive I lost the point. I understand now why someone becomes a defensive player.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Video?

ask and ye shall receive.

Warm up session with some club member.

Spoiler: Video of a match below

Actual game.

NB: The first two sets were mistake galore so it is rather boring. The game starts to get a little more exciting from Set 3 onwards ( time stamp: 8mins 20 secs onwards )

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Some dopamine high moment, those warm fuzzy feelin'

 

[dingyibvs]

So I finally made the full time switch to the Q968 on Monday, had a practice session that day, and felt comfortable with the FH and BH loops. Played in league today in table 1, did about as well as can be expected with a new setup.

So the good part is that while I knew the FH drive was gonna be good, the BH drive was fantastic too! Actually winning points with my BH in rallies. It's got ridiculous quality, nice arc, and even with limited practice I got used to the extra dwell and was able to land shots with great speed and spin. FH drives are as good as expected, able to drive balls that I normally wouldn't be able to with the FZD ALC.

The bad part is anything that required a finer, more delicate brushing touch. The different thickness and weight distribution makes it very difficult to adjust, particularly since I mostly practiced rallies and didn't really practiced those things. Worst was in services, I just couldn't serve with nearly the quality and consistency. A lot of my serves hit the edge of the racket, and even when it didn't the brush was way thicker than I wanted, resulting in less spin and higher bounce. Brush loops were difficult too, contact is often way too thick, making it especially difficult for me to loop half-long services which usually require fairly fine brushing due to the shorter trajectory of the ball compared to rallies. From past experience these kinds of things usually take about 2 weeks to adjust to, so shouldn't be an issue for very long.

Overall, pretty pleased with the Q, as well as the new BH rubber which is the H3 38. I think my rally skills are at a pretty solid level now, gonna work on mainly service receives goingforward. I've already been working a lot on services lately, particularly the activation sequence and wrist usage so once I'm used to the setup that should be fine. On the rally side I've been practicing more aggressive returns, counters instead of blocks on the BH side and counter loops on the FH side, and I'm gonna look to work those things into my game more.

 

[jk1980]

i think i must have unlocked an "retard" achievement. I just played a guy that basically can only block and chop (even over the table). I won against this guy a few month back and this game i won the first set 11-1 and then i still manage to lose 2:3 (9-11 in the last set). How the F... ? I basically forgot everything i did properly in the first set and start to push tomahawk or reverse spin (backhand) serves to my forhand instead of looping them. I can not even fathom why i started regressing my game when everything went smooth in the first set. Total brain fart.

Having serves that can score you points on that level 50% of the time does make it harder for me when i dont lead the score. I can either play a serve that i can get into my game and loop or i do a serve where it is 50/50 if i score directly, but if i dont score directly i can not attack the return that easily.

Using a serve that will score me points often is also a little tempting. If i do them i often dont even reset to neutral position, because i expect it to be a direct point. This is so bad that i would really need to actively think about resetting the position after the serve not to be surprised by a return.

In hindsight much is down to my own lack of discipline. When i tried to warm up with the guy he could or would not play to straight balls into my forehand just spraying wild balls all over the table until i said "f* it, i am warmed up enough, we can start". I remember him having decent serves but also him being very unstable in his game doing many unforced errors. yesterday i was doing so many errors (even 2 to 3 serve errors per set) that i dont know if it is just not warming up or just not taking enough time to concentrate properly.

 

[NetProphet]

i think i must have unlocked an "retard" achievement. I just played a guy that basically can only block and chop (even over the table). I won against this guy a few month back and this game i won the first set 11-1 and then i still manage to lose 2:3 (9-11 in the last set). How the F... ? I basically forgot everything i did properly in the first set and start to push tomahawk or reverse spin (backhand) serves to my forhand instead of looping them. I can not even fathom why i started regressing my game when everything went smooth in the first set. Total brain fart.

Having serves that can score you points on that level 50% of the time does make it harder for me when i dont lead the score. I can either play a serve that i can get into my game and loop or i do a serve where it is 50/50 if i score directly, but if i dont score directly i can not attack the return that easily.

Using a serve that will score me points often is also a little tempting. If i do them i often dont even reset to neutral position, because i expect it to be a direct point. This is so bad that i would really need to actively think about resetting the position after the serve not to be surprised by a return.

In hindsight much is down to my own lack of discipline. When i tried to warm up with the guy he could or would not play to straight balls into my forehand just spraying wild balls all over the table until i said "f* it, i am warmed up enough, we can start". I remember him having decent serves but also him being very unstable in his game doing many unforced errors. yesterday i was doing so many errors (even 2 to 3 serve errors per set) that i dont know if it is just not warming up or just not taking enough time to concentrate properly.

Sounds like you switched off mentally after the 11-1 while he switched on and kept probing for weakness.
The serve strategy was totally suboptimal, playing a 50% game instead of serving to set up your next shot which is probably a 70-80% game for you.
Also serving and not getting in position for the return is handing him more advantage by not taking the opponent seriously.
Fwiw I had so similar experience in January. The warmup annoyed me cos he was also hitting balls everywhere and because I knew 🙄 I was a better player I also went "**** it I'm warmed up enough, we can start".
He had no 'proper' technique but either blocked, chopped or swiped at the ball producing sidespin flat hits.
Anyway, I lost 1-2 because I just couldn't adjust to the lack of rhythm and when I really needed to think and change things I couldn't, I was just stuck in his game because I had abandoned all of my usual prep match prep in a moment of annoyance and arrogance.
Anyway, lesson learned 😬

 

[Tyce]

I haven't been feeling like playing at all this week. Mentally just not up to it.
We have a week off for league and without that, motivation is completely down the drain.

It doesn't help that my last match was kinda deserving of the same award as mentioned above. Completely unnecessary spillage of points.
Going into the season 2 months ago aiming for promotion and after half of the season played we're in fourth place. To make it worse I've been the one dropping the ball while my teammate has been playing quite well.
If we have to do yet another season in this level I might just stop league altogether and play individual tournaments until my rating is too high for this level.

 

[jk1980]

Yeah, that sounds familiar to me. This is basically my first half season and there is so much to learn in terms of discipline and mentality that gets glossed over if you just play training matches.
I even had a match day before where i had the opposite and i basically was 0-2 down in sets before i finally won 3-2.

Somehow if the going get's tough i dont take my time and just thing i can "wing" it which leads to incredibly high number of stupid decisions or straight errors.

Nobody can reasonably understand that i change the shot selection from looping successfully, to trying to circumvent the forehand loop that worked before to push the very same serve with the backhand and failing.

I just hope that me seeing it in video does help me remember it and when i see it often enough, perhaps it will stick in my mind for the next time.

In these cases a senior player that coaches me would be helpful, but that is not available very often and less knowledgable people give bad advice that just do more harm than good.

Who would have thought that i could lose after this first set ?

i basically would just have to do everything the same, since i dont think that the opponent really changed his serves.

and the cruel end

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I know that quite many opponents are probably technically lower level than me, but i will try to learn as much as possible from these odd playstyles, because my receives vs low spin or no spin serves are way worse than when somebody really puts much spin into it (especially underspin). I am just not used to empty balls. In this case the opponent had some spin in his game, which should have favoured me if me shot collection was proper.

You might also notice that i rarely smash, since i dont exercise that and i am quite bad at it, so i rather return it with some sidespin and let the opponent do the error to give me the point.

 

[Tyce]

Quick analysis off set 1 and first half of 2

You're tense. Your opponent sees that you can loop but you don't look confident doing it.
Start of the 2nd, he's trying to force some loop errors from you by giving seemingly easy balls to your FH and you react strongly right after the first miss.

Tbh your opponent could have just needed to warm up a bit to be able to give you sharper balls and make you miss. He looks like he knows what he's doing, not like a randomly playing person.

 

[boretennis]

I know that quite many opponents are probably technically lower level than me, but i will try to learn as much as possible from these odd playstyles,

i know that so well. i loose so often to those pensionist with an odd style learned in 50 years of playing in the garage. i am just not used to that style from my club. i can work better with well executed topspins, drives etc, but so often am completely helpless when it comes to those awkward blocks and chops and weird serves 😜

 

[Zezima]

Yeah, that sounds familiar to me. This is basically my first half season and there is so much to learn in terms of discipline and mentality that gets glossed over if you just play training matches.
I even had a match day before where i had the opposite and i basically was 0-2 down in sets before i finally won 3-2.

Somehow if the going get's tough i dont take my time and just thing i can "wing" it which leads to incredibly high number of stupid decisions or straight errors.

Nobody can reasonably understand that i change the shot selection from looping successfully, to trying to circumvent the forehand loop that worked before to push the very same serve with the backhand and failing.

I just hope that me seeing it in video does help me remember it and when i see it often enough, perhaps it will stick in my mind for the next time.

In these cases a senior player that coaches me would be helpful, but that is not available very often and less knowledgable people give bad advice that just do more harm than good.

Who would have thought that i could lose after this first set ?

i basically would just have to do everything the same, since i dont think that the opponent really changed his serves.

and the cruel end

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I know that quite many opponents are probably technically lower level than me, but i will try to learn as much as possible from these odd playstyles, because my receives vs low spin or no spin serves are way worse than when somebody really puts much spin into it (especially underspin). I am just not used to empty balls. In this case the opponent had some spin in his game, which should have favoured me if me shot collection was proper.

You might also notice that i rarely smash, since i dont exercise that and i am quite bad at it, so i rather return it with some sidespin and let the opponent do the error to give me the point.

Interesting game for sure.
My observation:

• Serve return: You don't see what kind of spin his serve has. You should atleast know the sidespin and compensate for that instead of hitting the ball at the back. You have to hit the ball more from the side or just ignore and loop it forwards. Holding the racket and hitting a sidespin ball at the back won't do. You struggled the most when it had Sidetopspin.
• Footwork: You actually try to move which is good the only issue is how you move. For the backhand Balls you should aim to be parallel or left foot a bit forward just a tiny bit (half a shoe size). You had your right leg infront of your left leg. That should never happen. Do some exercise where they play you balls anywhere on the table and you just work on that sideways footwork and drive it back without crossing your legs.

I think I would focus on these 2 if I were you.

 

[yamagata]

Observation from local club. I bring new bat, a noticeable one, green rubber hexagonal. No one says a beep. I wear new shirt at work, everybody comments!

 

[jk1980]

Interesting game for sure.
My observation:

• Serve return: You don't see what kind of spin his serve has. You should atleast know the sidespin and compensate for that instead of hitting the ball at the back. You have to hit the ball more from the side or just ignore and loop it forwards. Holding the racket and hitting a sidespin ball at the back won't do. You struggled the most when it had Sidetopspin.

I should have simply looped all of the long serves, because none of them were really short. The trouble began when I backhand pushed, when I should have forehand looped. Perhaps i give the opponent too few credit. Perhaps he deliberately aimed at the crossover point and made me choose the wrong option by doing so.

• Footwork: You actually try to move which is good the only issue is how you move. For the backhand Balls you should aim to be parallel or left foot a bit forward just a tiny bit (half a shoe size). You had your right leg infront of your left leg. That should never happen. Do some exercise where they play you balls anywhere on the table and you just work on that sideways footwork and drive it back without crossing your legs.

I think I would focus on these 2 if I were you.

You are correct that the right leg should never be forward for more than a "step in under the table" for a short push, but that is just a lazy bad habbit of mine, once there is one short ball i step in and when the next ball comes short i stay with that right leg in front which basically makes looping very hard, because the stance is wrong.
This is basically my inner mind saying "ok, we are not playing tabletennis now, but doing this grandpa push rally now" and conceeding to that way of play.


This is something that i really actively need to think about and sometimes inside matches you can see me changing the stance to right leg back after i notice it, but it should be automatic which it is not and i dont know how to ingrain.

i can also see my stamina and concentration deteriorate inside a match. I see that when i only lean forward, but the legs are too straight and basically my knees not being above the toes anymore. that is basically a "crutch" to stay lower but it is not ideal for looping and moving.

what i also noticed is that when he played a serve to my backhand i tried to get into position by shuffling both feet (first right leg to the left and then left leg out) which i was often too late with, when a simple stepping out with the left leg, going low and looping backhand would be better.

its easy to say that when viewing it on the video, but to think about that while in game is a challenge.

i will indeed focus on just looping everything long, while staying low and resetting to the (right leg behind) neutral position. Even though i know this will probably take at least month to get rid off.

 

[Zezima]

I should have simply looped all of the long serves, because none of them were really short. The trouble began when I backhand pushed, when I should have forehand looped. Perhaps i give the opponent too few credit. Perhaps he deliberately aimed at the crossover point and made me choose the wrong option by doing so.


You are correct that the right leg should never be forward for more than a "step in under the table" for a short push, but that is just a lazy bad habbit of mine, once there is one short ball i step in and when the next ball comes short i stay with that right leg in front which basically makes looping very hard, because the stance is wrong.
This is basically my inner mind saying "ok, we are not playing tabletennis now, but doing this grandpa push rally now" and conceeding to that way of play.


This is something that i really actively need to think about and sometimes inside matches you can see me changing the stance to right leg back after i notice it, but it should be automatic which it is not and i dont know how to ingrain.

i can also see my stamina and concentration deteriorate inside a match. I see that when i only lean forward, but the legs are too straight and basically my knees not being above the toes anymore. that is basically a "crutch" to stay lower but it is not ideal for looping and moving.

what i also noticed is that when he played a serve to my backhand i tried to get into position by shuffling both feet (first right leg to the left and then left leg out) which i was often too late with, when a simple stepping out with the left leg, going low and looping backhand would be better.

its easy to say that when viewing it on the video, but to think about that while in game is a challenge.

i will indeed focus on just looping everything long, while staying low and resetting to the (right leg behind) neutral position. Even though i know this will probably take at least month to get rid off.

Don't focus too much on staying low again focus on the 2 points I said. Doesn't matter if your stance is low and you can loop long backspin balls if you can't even read (or you can read the spin but don't know how to return)

First you need to gain the ability to stay in the rally. At your level it seems enough to drive the balls back. Once you are comfortable at this with the footwork you can develop looping those long balls.

Take it one at a time. First learn the stuff that gets you into the rally and afterwards you will know that just driving the balls back won't net you points and then you go and work on your loop spin and placement. But before that you need to get the footwork done in a way that you know how to move around the table (it's not about doing it fast but not doing movements where just driving the balls back is almost impossible with that stance)

I think I repeated my points a lot but I just wanted to make my points very clear. You will get better over time!

 

[Tyce]

Honestly I think you're taking the criticism and pointers really well. Hats off for actually engaging in conversation about it and analysing your game.

 

[blahness]

Yeah, that sounds familiar to me. This is basically my first half season and there is so much to learn in terms of discipline and mentality that gets glossed over if you just play training matches.
I even had a match day before where i had the opposite and i basically was 0-2 down in sets before i finally won 3-2.

Somehow if the going get's tough i dont take my time and just thing i can "wing" it which leads to incredibly high number of stupid decisions or straight errors.

Nobody can reasonably understand that i change the shot selection from looping successfully, to trying to circumvent the forehand loop that worked before to push the very same serve with the backhand and failing.

I just hope that me seeing it in video does help me remember it and when i see it often enough, perhaps it will stick in my mind for the next time.

In these cases a senior player that coaches me would be helpful, but that is not available very often and less knowledgable people give bad advice that just do more harm than good.

Who would have thought that i could lose after this first set ?

i basically would just have to do everything the same, since i dont think that the opponent really changed his serves.

and the cruel end

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I know that quite many opponents are probably technically lower level than me, but i will try to learn as much as possible from these odd playstyles, because my receives vs low spin or no spin serves are way worse than when somebody really puts much spin into it (especially underspin). I am just not used to empty balls. In this case the opponent had some spin in his game, which should have favoured me if me shot collection was proper.

You might also notice that i rarely smash, since i dont exercise that and i am quite bad at it, so i rather return it with some sidespin and let the opponent do the error to give me the point.

You just had to FH loop his serves to win against these players. Show no mercy and really give them the max topspin. His serves (BH pendulum and FH tomahawk) all turn anticlockwise (from your perspective), and your normal FH loop movement is naturally anticlockwise too, so you just need to ride the sidespin. If it is backspin just loop it upwards more and if it is topspin loop it forward and even downwards if necessary.

It is way easier to control the FH loop than to push a long sidetopspin serve.

One trick for these anticlockwise serves is to use FH loop a lot more (say like 80+% of the time) and not BH (unless it is basically near the BH corner). Even balls to your middle will actually turn right and head towards your ideal FH loop area.

But of course the other hard part is footwork to get to the ideal FH looping position. There is no need to push unless your opponent proves that he can serve short (even then you don't actually need to push, you can do other much more disgusting stuff like sideswipes and dead flicks)

 

[blahness]

i know that so well. i loose so often to those pensionist with an odd style learned in 50 years of playing in the garage. i am just not used to that style from my club. i can work better with well executed topspins, drives etc, but so often am completely helpless when it comes to those awkward blocks and chops and weird serves 😜

I play at a club where they just give me short sideunderspin tomahawk chopblocks when I try to do FH loops at them and then random topspin blocks, and then they giggle and laugh when I miss my 2nd loop against them. What amazes me is that they can somehow execute this rather consistently because for me this is actually a really difficult shot compared to just flat blocking and normal topspin blocking. Pretty much a bunch of assholes who don't like to train properly. So I trained a lot of loops against weird shit balls and I am somewhat good against it lol.

So now I just bring a box of multiballs and ask them to serve and then I practice looping those serves. Much better practice for me this way.

But then I never get to practice my FH continuous looping which really sucks compared to the quality of my 1st topspin (quite a few coaches have commented on this issue of mine). Super annoying because when I go against ppl with really good topspin defence and counterattack I have no way to win because I can really only rally very strongly on my BH and not my FH which is really annoying, they know that and just bully my FH side, where the ball always comes back and then I'm out of position somehow and then they take over the point.

 

[Der_Echte]

I just played a guy that basically can only block and chop (even over the table).

I basically forgot everything i did properly in the first set and start to push tomahawk or reverse spin (backhand) serves to my forehand instead of looping them.

Hi @jk1980

I will present it logically as quoted above.

IF your opponent WILL NOT or CANNOT attack your underspin... you are under ZERO PRESSURE to attack the first attackable ball.

It makes sense to sometimes or often give one back with underspin and the next ball will be more predictable (since you know what you put on the ball)... then attack that second ball strongly.

I agree that it is a matter of discipline (as you said in the same post). He got you to blindly attack everything regardless if it was high percentage or not.