How to return the hook serve if I can’t see the contact point

[Robin0910]

I had a match today with a guy and I could read all his serves except some of his hook serves.

I’m left handed he’s right handed.
I was standing at the dead middle of the table so I could see the contact point better but even then I couldn’t see some of his hook serves, especially the kicker ones.

Now, my question is how do I return it somewhat successfully without seeing the contact point? Let’s say these are slow short and half long serves so I can’t really loop them.
what other traits are there that are specific for only side under or only side top serves other than seeing how the ball spins?

thanks in advance

 

[Peter93]

Ball trajectory. Watch where the ball lands and how it reacts afterward. Backspin will decelerate where as top spin naturally jump forward more. Of course if there is any side spin you should be able to tell as the ball is going to go left or right.

In one of those Chinese coaching videos the coach mentions that you can save time by anticipating a topspin serve but adjusting to a backspin serve, but not vice versa, so you may keep that in mind as well.

 

[blahness]

I had a match today with a guy and I could read all his serves except some of his hook serves.

I’m left handed he’s right handed.
I was standing at the dead middle of the table so I could see the contact point better but even then I couldn’t see some of his hook serves, especially the kicker ones.

Now, my question is how do I return it somewhat successfully without seeing the contact point? Let’s say these are slow short and half long serves so I can’t really loop them.
what other traits are there that are specific for only side under or only side top serves other than seeing how the ball spins?

thanks in advance

I have a secret to read it which I posted here in the past but not gonna tell lol, coz my hook serves win me a disgusting amount of points.

I will say that contact point is not the main thing to see in advanced hook serves. I use the exact same contact point and blade angle for sideunder and sidetop and nospin, it really depends on how I brush the ball with my fingers and the direction of the brush. So it is essentially almost unreadable for those who rely solely on contact point xD.

Even advanced FH pendulum serves mostly depend on brush direction for variation while keeping the blade angle almost identical.

That said, i despise those who rely on serve hiding to achieve trickery in serves. One can have very effective, yet perfectly legal hook serves. True mastery is having the deception in plain sight and yet it is undecipherable, like a magician doing an illusion.

 

[Tyce]

If you can't see the contact point, return it by catching the ball with your free hand, throwing it back and saying "do over, the contact point was hidden"

 

[StreamOfWater]

If you can't see the contact point, return it by catching the ball with your free hand, throwing it back and saying "do over, the contact point was hidden"

Yep! I support this, just tell them straight on, maybe the player is not aware. So, instead of compromising your own game and letting the opponent build bad habits, it's indeed better to just call it out

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I had a match today with a guy and I could read all his serves except some of his hook serves.

I’m left handed he’s right handed.
I was standing at the dead middle of the table so I could see the contact point better but even then I couldn’t see some of his hook serves, especially the kicker ones.

Now, my question is how do I return it somewhat successfully without seeing the contact point? Let’s say these are slow short and half long serves so I can’t really loop them.
what other traits are there that are specific for only side under or only side top serves other than seeing how the ball spins?

thanks in advance

im in the same boat. got problem with hook serves. but if its slow and short/half long i can overcome it. those who come fast (long and half long) at me and i don't know the spin, or sometimes its a kick serve, thats hell.

 

[NextLevel]

Watch the contact point and racket angle not the follow through. With serves like the hook serve or tomahawk, too many people watch the follow through (especially when the serve is hidden) and miss the contact point. You have to hit the side bottom of the ball to get heavy backspin but you can get decent topspin hitting the side of the ball. The follow through be similar for both and that causes the problem.

 

[Robin0910]

Watch the contact point and racket angle not the follow through. With serves like the hook serve or tomahawk, too many people watch the follow through (especially when the serve is hidden) and miss the contact point. You have to hit the side bottom of the ball to get heavy backspin but you can get decent topspin hitting the side of the ball. The follow through be similar for both and that causes the problem.

Well, yeah, but it’s all in vain if you can’t see the contact point. They can swing their arm any direction cause once the ball leaves the bat they can create any kind of motion. So in the end it really is just seeing how the ball spins and how it bounces. But those don’t really work for fast half-long to long serves though. So in the end, you have to see the contact points to return a quality ball

 

[banbekas]

The best way is to find the slightest difference in movement that your opponent do when he serves the ball. That's the best advice I can give you.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I had a match today with a guy and I could read all his serves except some of his hook serves.

I’m left handed he’s right handed.
I was standing at the dead middle of the table so I could see the contact point better but even then I couldn’t see some of his hook serves, especially the kicker ones.

Now, my question is how do I return it somewhat successfully without seeing the contact point? Let’s say these are slow short and half long serves so I can’t really loop them.
what other traits are there that are specific for only side under or only side top serves other than seeing how the ball spins?

thanks in advance

if you can't see, you can only guess
if he is good in spin, not seeing it, and you guess wrong, the ball will pop to the heavens or drop into the net.
call an umpire if there is one or just complain to him that he is hiding the ball

since he is already in the middle, I can't really say, step more to the middle or even forehand side.
but for those that are good in hiding, even if you go stand on the forehand side, the ball could still be hidden

 

[NextLevel]

Well, yeah, but it’s all in vain if you can’t see the contact point. They can swing their arm any direction cause once the ball leaves the bat they can create any kind of motion. So in the end it really is just seeing how the ball spins and how it bounces. But those don’t really work for fast half-long to long serves though. So in the end, you have to see the contact points to return a quality ball

Yeah you have to see contact point to return a serve aggressively. If you can't then you need to look at the bounce and the speed. Because it had reverse sidespin, the bounce doesn't feel the same as if you are used to pendulum serves but the most important thing to start with is always serve length. Taking serves early is not to your benefit if you can't read them. So it is better to first and foremost stand s bit back. If the serve is short topspin, by the time you get to it, it would have kicked enough. If the serve is short and heavy backspin, it is best to open the paddle and use a sideswipe element so that even if you lift the ball too high, it kicks a little. Try to continue the spin with the sideswipe so it tends to stay a bit shorter even if not as heavy.

 

[NetProphet]

Ball bounce is all ya got when you don't see contact.
Does it bounce skid, true, hop - that's back, no, and topspin, roughly speaking.

It's bloody hard to detect it tho and I don't pretend that it works for me always cos it doesn't!

But I do practice watching the bounce to confirm my initial thought from contact point (when I can see it) and it is the best way to practice that skill.
When the bounce exactly confirms what I saw on contact then I can play a perfectly confident shot, no doubts.
When bounce and contact are off then I'm more tentative and safe in my return.

You have the right to point out the hidden contact though and you probably should imo.

 

[Shine]

I think the contact point is overrated. It's mostly mental for a lot of people. The bounce is a better predictor of the spin on the serve.
You can see the point of contact all day, but if you miss the right timing to contact the ball, or the point of your contact with the ball is too "open", the ball drifts long and you get punished either way.

 

[Jslick89]

I think the contact point is overrated. It's mostly mental for a lot of people. The bounce is a better predictor of the spin on the serve.
You can see the point of contact all day, but if you miss the right timing to contact the ball, or the point of your contact with the ball is too "open", the ball drifts long and you get punished either way.

I too have a hard time determining the spin by looking at the contact point. I've gotten a lot more proficient at reading the trajectory of the bounce. especially since some of my opponents are so deceptive with their contact points and follow throughs.

Also, i just saw an interesting video about receiving short serves. for backhand, you lead with expecting it to be topspin, so your paddle is a little more closed, but as soon as you determine its backspin and you need to push, its easier to rotate your wrist and do the push. Here's the video i'm referencing:

 

[mamedium]

if they can keep the bounce low, well good luck guessing!

 

[NetProphet]

It's mostly mental for a lot of people.

I'm not sure what you mean by by mental. Most players I know use the CP to help read the serve, I guess that's a mental exercise...

The bounce is a better predictor of the spin on the serve.

Depends on what skill you've honed and what you find easier.
Also depends on who's serve you're returning because some people have great disguise.

You can see the point of contact all day,

But not just point of contact on the ball, it's also point of contact on the rubber along with racket angle and racket movement.
Nobody is pretending they know what spin is on a ball just by someone telling them where the ball was struck...

but if you miss the right timing to contact the ball, or the point of your contact with the ball is too "open", the ball drifts long and you get punished either way.

But this has nothing to do with watching the contact point or the bounce.
If you get your timing or racket angle wrong with any shot you're going to make a mistake.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

contact point is so important
that is the whole reason why they banned hidden serves....
and then when the ban was enforced, service return quality improves....

 

[NextLevel]

I think the contact point is overrated. It's mostly mental for a lot of people. The bounce is a better predictor of the spin on the serve.
You can see the point of contact all day, but if you miss the right timing to contact the ball, or the point of your contact with the ball is too "open", the ball drifts long and you get punished either way.

You can't return consistently and aggressively if you don't see the contact point. If you are successful with your main instrument being the bounce, you are playing opponents who don't put pressure on you with their level and speed of play.

 

[zeio]

Forget the contact. Just push long with your own force (get good contact) by borrowing the incoming sidespin, disregarding the topspin or backspin element. When faced with that, the most important thing is not to hesitate and just "touch" the ball. That's how Waldner and Persson checkmated LGL after figuring out the trick.

p.s.
Also, look for patterns. Like how Tanaka noticed that WCQ almost always served topspin with his shovel serve.

 

[joshmak10]

Focus on getting the receive on the table and deal with the third ball accordingly.

OR if you're feeling a bit bitchy say "Illegal serve"