What is the most important area to jump from 1900 to 2100?

[lightspin]

I used to train with someone who could not run a 15 minute mile but ended up breaking 2450. Fitness has nothing to do with getting to 2100. I would say the #1 and #2 skill is serve and serve return. It is debatable which is more important. I know quite a few 2100+ players with horrid technique but have great serves and serve return. The 2450 guys serves were not great but he could return any serve and was very consistent.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I used to train with someone who could not run a 15 minute mile but ended up breaking 2450. Fitness has nothing to do with getting to 2100. I would say the #1 and #2 skill is serve and serve return. It is debatable which is more important. I know quite a few 2100+ players with horrid technique but have great serves and serve return. The 2450 guys serves were not great but he could return any serve and was very consistent.

I think you are right. The first 3 shots often decide the flow of the match.

Sometimes I feel my fitness isn't quite enough, but at the same time I can't count the points that I lost due to fitness, but I can definitely count the times I lost points due to bad receive.

 

[RefereeNumber2]

Not really, usually the tactics that get you to level as high as 1700 USATT are already in your style, the key is usually to improve their quality and application. While the mental aspects are clearly important, I think most of them still show up in play as technical issues or inconsistency etc. It takes me back to something that Sabalenka's movement specialist said, he said that if your technique is right, your mental game tends to improve and when you choke under pressure, it is often because your mechanics are not optimal enough to produce even when your mindset is tense. His main point even if I am not properly expressing it is that people often tend to blame mindset for technical/movement issues.

For example, let's say you don't loop the ball deep enough consistently, is that a technical issue or a mental issue? Or if your serve depth and spin vary too much, is it a technical issue or a mental issue?

Big agree (I think?) -- it's both/and, rather than one or the other. We can talk about technique and mindset as two distinct things, but are they actually? If someone can hit beautiful loops in drills but hits wild shots in matches, do they have good technique? Imo, technique isn't a purely physical skill you either have or don't. What matters is your ability to execute the right movement in any given situation.

I see many players at the intermediate level who would generally be considered to have "good form" but who play loose/unfocused and therefore don't execute as well as they could. And that's fine if you're just playing to have fun, or just beating up on weaker players. But if you want to crush weaker players and win matches against better and better players, you have to want to win, and play with some intensity/urgency/intention/focus in each and every point, starting from the serve/return. And just like physical skills, these mental skills can also be improved through repetition.

So my advice is to develop a mental headspace where you are intensely focused, and to practice going there before every point in a match. Don't just go pick up the ball and walk back to the table without stopping to clear your mind and focus on how you want to play the next point. It can help to have some small pre-point rituals/movements, and don't be afraid to take the time you need to do so (within the bounds of sportsmanship and the rules). One way to evaluate yourself is to see how clearly you remember the match after it's over. Developing this is worth at least a few hundred ratings points, imo. And it can substitute for imperfect technique up to a point. There are plenty of players at ~2100 level who have flawed technique in some ways but are just solid match players.

 

[Jslick89]

Serve consistency is probably the biggest signature of a strong player, but I suspect (projecting a bit here) that in practice you give yourself too much credit for your serves being low and spinny in the absence of a strong returner (in fact, my serves are been relatively high for a long time and I usually relied on heavy spin and I am now trying to to make them lower and faster because too many players I face regularly that I am trying to beat have gotten better at pushing them fast and attacking them depending on their mood when they are high). and don't think enough about the circumstances under which you practice vs those under which you play.

In fact, one of my coaches used to encourage me to jog/sprint in between serves sometimes (and Par Gerrell said something similar) to see whether you could produce good results when interruptions/exhaustion were introduced into your practice session. Table tennis is a beautifully complicated sport, there is so much stuff you can work on to get something to a reliable level, we don't do it for money so we often only scratch the surface. When the new club opens I will create distractions and try to play through them, it is not good to be able to play well only under ideal conditions.

I mostly agree with you again. I'm not saying all of my serves are perfect when I practice, I'm saying I *personally* notice that my serves are worse in a match. I have some really good serves in a match too. Heck, I could even be serving pretty good for a whole match but then when it comes down to 8-8 in the 5th game, the nerves start kicking in...its not uncommon for my serve quality to diminish, even if just by percentages. I attribute this to mentality, not my physicality. Sure, if I practiced the serve 10,000 more times, I would have more confidence in my mentality to hit the quality serve....again...nuance.

BTW- I am regularly practicing my serves after 60 seconds of drills on on my pongbot robot. Practicing skills with a high heart rate is a sure fire way to emulate a match environment. When I was a lifeguard manager, I used to make the lifeguards swim a 25 yard sprint before getting out and practicing their CPR on the dummies. When your heart rate is elevated, your vision becomes tunnel like and its harder to remember things, so we had the lifeguard train with a high heart rate so that if they ever did have to rescue a victim and perform CPR, it would be muscle memory in execution instead of forgetting important steps in the life saving process.

Also- smart to try and play through your distractions like that. That's why I almost never call let, even during the round robins. If i'm getting districted by a ball or a person behind me, i would definitely be getting distracted at a loud tournament with little kids yelling cho-le every five seconds lol

 

[Yurifi]

well … and I would definitely say fitness and stamina. when you start feeling muscles, when tiredness kicks in … that’s way past your top mentality level, because brains get tired even sooner. when muscles start eating up more oxygen, you brain don’t get as much as needed and then everything starts falling apart. concentration, consistency in strokes, perception of what the opponent is playing … it all just falls apart. and it is very hard to overcome this wall. trust me, I’ve been there many times. lastly a month ago, during national championships, I was leading 2:0 and 7:3, and everything just fell apart. I could make a serve!! 😂
so yeah, probably fitness and stamina, but table tennis is such a complex sport that it’s probably more than just fitness and stamina.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

no 2
Get a coach that knows how to get players from 1900 to 2100

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I actually haven't bought any gear in 6 months. Haven't seen anything new or interesting. I took about 4 months away from TT and just starting to get back into playing a bit. After beating the 2150 LP Chopper guy, I felt like I had achieved much more than I ever imagined when I started playing in 2022. After that I lost motivation and stopped playing.

Ejing doesn't mean, buying a lot
it means you keep changing
and it also means, in your head, you keep changing your mind (maybe you not changing physically, but mentally too). In other words, if it works or fails, it isn't you but your gear. this is the cons of ejing.

Getting a coach,
because it is simple to list everything in point form, but how is the execution? how is the training partners level.

of course, there is hobby method, using google/chat gpt/ttd and youtube to get by free of charge progress.
but you get what you pay for.

or if you are serious, get a specialist and focus on technical adjustments. you may need to unlearn things to be able to move forward. In fact, this is mostly the case.

Regardless, I know my body and I know what I can do and can't do.

Really?
This is the biggest problem with self learning.
If you haven't achieved that extra mile, you will not know how far extra you can push your body and you would claim, you can't do. But the problem is, you don't know how to do, not "can't do", or simply you don't know how to do it.
Most of the time, I work with players, the conclusion afterwards, I would always say: See, you know how to do it now right? now focus on it, remind yourself every time that you can do it.

There is no "can't"
I worked with Para TT players who have movement disabilities and they also can push can't to can!

It has nothing to do with the gear. Actually a lot of times I like to train with worse or more demanding gear. It kinda acts like a extra weight and forces you to hit cleaner and better shots to overcome. Recently I have been training with the very cheap Sanwei Gears 2.0 (I actually find it much better than the more marketed and expensive Gears Hyper)

I know gear is difficult to understand. especially for ejers.
you can say all the pros of ejers, but I am a pro of coaching.
no sane serious player are regular ejers.
we find time (no competition periods) to test out new or different gear, and we decide what to do next and we stick with it and master it.
it is no use being an expert on every gear, but master of none.

There is so much going on in table tennis, that from 1900 to 2100, requires to be more complete. A better flow, if we can call it such.
And as I commented on your training videos before, your training partners level is only so much - thus your quality of training is only so much.

 

[NextLevel]

Sure, if I practiced the serve 10,000 more times, I would have more confidence in my mentality to hit the quality serve....again...nuance.

But maybe there is something about how you execute the serve that makes it unstable at critical moments. This is where practice based on the principles of timeless technique can be helpful. I have a friend who has nasty serves but also misses a lot of serves. His setup and preparation are not standard, he doesn't lock the zone of his toss and his power generation to increase the consistency of ball contact etc. He does use whippy motions to get spin, but sometimes, he overuses the upper arm so the serve swings are larger and riskier than they need to be. Some people generically do the same serve but don't do enough to make sure that all the elements of the serve have no loose parts. So under pressure, they are relying on their care and not reducing variation by constructing the serve properly both in practice and matches. Not saying this is you, but this is how technique can influence consistency. One subtle example that sometimes comes up is Lin Gaoyuan's forehand, but I won't go too far afield.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Not saying this is you, but this is how technique can influence consistency.

For serves, this is very valid.
the technique even starts on where you put the ball on the palm, to be able to control the flight of the toss.

to give an example - if you do 10 serves and the ball is everywhere/mixed placement on the palm - then the serves will be inconsistent.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

number 1
stop ejing

Don't listen to Tony. One can only stop EJ'ing after one use Golden Viscaria. So, buy one first then only stop
Ej'ing.

 

[SleepyMaster]

You need some basic level of fitness, experienced coach/coaches, training partners of higher/same/tiny bit lower than your level.
You need to master own serves and receives, you need to find STABILITY in all of those things.

You must train frequently/analysing your game/mistakes/weak points and keep that mindset/schedule for years - and even with all of those things you have no guarantee that you will achieve 2100+ because some people are just not made for it - and it’s normal, but many people can - it depends on mindset/coach/training environment/technique/ability to perform under stress/resources that you can invest in your game etc.
Few wins here and there over 2100+ players don’t mean much if we talking bout solid level.

 

[Tyce]

Not really, usually the tactics that get you to level as high as 1700 USATT are already in your style, the key is usually to improve their quality and application. While the mental aspects are clearly important, I think most of them still show up in play as technical issues or inconsistency etc. It takes me back to something that Sabalenka's movement specialist said, he said that if your technique is right, your mental game tends to improve and when you choke under pressure, it is often because your mechanics are not optimal enough to produce even when your mindset is tense. His main point even if I am not properly expressing it is that people often tend to blame mindset for technical/movement issues.

For example, let's say you don't loop the ball deep enough consistently, is that a technical issue or a mental issue? Or if your serve depth and spin vary too much, is it a technical issue or a mental issue?

One could easily replace movement in this quote with gear.

Yes, you can play with most gear fine. But you (@TensorBackhand ) are asking how to play better than fine. And one of the things you need, is 100% trust in your equipment. You need to be able to trust it so hard that you can make a difference between a 75% shot and an 80% shot at will. Under pressure. On the white line. In the last match of the day. While hungry.

The point really isn't about your capabilities to use the gear, it's about becoming one with it.
When you get there, the equipment doesn't use up any excess headspace and you can use your brain fully to do other important things like tactics, movement, observation. That's where you get the edge, the slow-motion experience.

And even then, you will lose points, you will lose confidence during games. But since you have built a solid bond with the equipment, your mind doesn't wander to doubt or insecurity about it.



You probably understand why I'm putting so much emphasis on it.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I would say the #1 and #2 skill is serve and serve return. It is debatable which is more important. I know quite a few 2100+ players with horrid technique but have great serves and serve return. The 2450 guys serves were not great but he could return any serve and was very consistent.

at the 1900 level, I would believe the rallies don't last long and are gone within the first 3 or 5 balls of open rally.
so this makes serve and return the core of who wins this 3 or 5 balls.

so it isn't wrong to put this on the top, but then again to control the balls in serves and service return requires good feeling of the ball, that mostly comes from hours of actual hitting and spinning of the ball - with correct technique.

one will need a plan, a schedule, since the "goal" is defined.
and other than coaching and technical guidance is required, hours of repetition and training is expected too.
While i know OP will never hire a coach, I have listed these 2 detailed posts for who ever is willing to progress.
A few coaching sessions is required for you to "realize" what you are doing wrong. I have worked with enough adult players to know that table tennis is not like a cooking recipe that any one can just google and master.

 

[Amayzde]

+1 on serve and receive, and a good 3rd ball attack is also important.

For this season I was asked to play in a team that played 2 levels higher then I played at the time. I was the 3th highest ranked player of my league group. When I saw the new group online I was the 4th lowest rated player. The average rating in that group was around 150-200 points above my rating, with a few players over 400 higher then me. I finished this season with a 44% winrate which is really good for a 'rookie' at that level.

And my main weapon was serve, 3rd ball, and my recieve. Most points I won the rallies only lasted 3-5 shots. But Im pretty sure I lost around 90% of the rallies that lasted over 5 shots. I even beat one of these players with a rating 400 points above me, just because he had difficulties handeling my serve, and I knew how to handle his.

Its important that you have a set of reliable strategies that allow you to be the first to attack. And usually the best way of doing that is following up your serve.

 

[Brs]

I was going to say focus, but RN2 already said it much better.

imo everything else that has been said about serve and receive, safety, consistency, movement - it all comes back to intense focus throughout the point, every point of the match. Honestly, how often do you achieve this?

So my advice is to develop a mental headspace where you are intensely focused, and to practice going there before every point in a match. Don't just go pick up the ball and walk back to the table without stopping to clear your mind

 

[andzejgolot]

Golden viscaria

 

[TensorBackhand]

+1 on serve and receive, and a good 3rd ball attack is also important.

For this season I was asked to play in a team that played 2 levels higher then I played at the time. I was the 3th highest ranked player of my league group. When I saw the new group online I was the 4th lowest rated player. The average rating in that group was around 150-200 points above my rating, with a few players over 400 higher then me. I finished this season with a 44% winrate which is really good for a 'rookie' at that level.

And my main weapon was serve, 3rd ball, and my recieve. Most points I won the rallies only lasted 3-5 shots. But Im pretty sure I lost around 90% of the rallies that lasted over 5 shots. I even beat one of these players with a rating 400 points above me, just because he had difficulties handeling my serve, and I knew how to handle his.

Its important that you have a set of reliable strategies that allow you to be the first to attack. And usually the best way of doing that is following up your serve.

Thanks. I thought that this is probably the true answer. Every point starts with serve and receive, and its also the easiest place to give away points.

Before my 4 month break, I was doing a lot of multiball practice just focused on these 2 things. I would serve 100+ balls and just loop every one of the 3rd balls. During practice, I felt like I was doing about as well as I could reasonably do. Maybe I was hitting about 90-95% of the 3rd ball loops. The problem is that in a real game, they might place the receive short, so I wouldn't be able to loop the 3rd ball.

For receive, I would take the opposite side and have my friend do 100+ serves to me and I would try to loop it. As long as the serve was long, I felt like I was doing pretty well and successfully looping 80%-90% of the serves. (Actually when I beat my 2150 chopper friend, one of the key differences is that I looped his serve). The area that gave me trouble was when the ball was landing just long of the table. I could never find the angle to loop the ball without hitting myself on the table.

The other shot that always gives me trouble is the heavy pendulum sidespin serve to my backhand. Since my bh and the sidespin are both naturally going to my right, I have trouble angling the ball to stay straight on the table.

 

[TensorBackhand]

at the 1900 level, I would believe the rallies don't last long and are gone within the first 3 or 5 balls of open rally.
so this makes serve and return the core of who wins this 3 or 5 balls.

so it isn't wrong to put this on the top, but then again to control the balls in serves and service return requires good feeling of the ball, that mostly comes from hours of actual hitting and spinning of the ball - with correct technique.

one will need a plan, a schedule, since the "goal" is defined.
and other than coaching and technical guidance is required, hours of repetition and training is expected too.
While i know OP will never hire a coach, I have listed these 2 detailed posts for who ever is willing to progress.
A few coaching sessions is required for you to "realize" what you are doing wrong. I have worked with enough adult players to know that table tennis is not like a cooking recipe that any one can just google and master.

Hi, I'm going to address your 2 points out of courtesy. I'm not looking for a debate. I respect that you have your opinion. I simply have a different opinion and I will explain why.

1) On Ejing: Firstly, like I said, I'm not doing much EJ right now. I have a setup that sits in my bag, and that's just what I use. It's not the absolute best paddle, but I trust that it does what it needs to do. When I have an error, I know that it is my error and not the paddle. I think improving my technique or reading of the game is a lot more important that finding the perfect paddle.

2) There are 2 coaching TT clubs in my city so I play at both. Some of these coaches played in WTTTC representing the US, some won the WTTC, some play in the MLTT and SEA Games. I see how they conduct their coaching lessons, and I don't really feel that it would be super helpful for me and the areas that I want to improve.

What I really want most, is to have 20 different great servers just do 500 serves to me each. Then I could just get the repetitions. I feel repetitions is what I need most. But this is not easy to arrange.

And just for context, I have already exceeded the level that I wanted to get to. I started playing about 4 years ago and I just had 1 goal at the time: I wanted to be able to loop with some power. I didn't know how to loop at that time. Fast forward to 2025, and in the best match of my life I beat a 2140 rated LP chopper (former top 3 player in the US). I didn't win by luck, I won because I was looping all of his chops and broke through. So with zero coaching (mostly just coaching myself), with zero systematic training, I have already exceeded what I thought I could achieve. I can beat 2000 and 2100 with some regularity (say 25-30% win rate). So I think I can play at that high level, but I just can't do it all the time. I think the biggest thing that holds me back (not equipment) is the reading of serves.

 

[NextLevel]

Hi, I'm going to address your 2 points out of courtesy. I'm not looking for a debate. I respect that you have your opinion. I simply have a different opinion and I will explain why.

1) On Ejing: Firstly, like I said, I'm not doing much EJ right now. I have a setup that sits in my bag, and that's just what I use. It's not the absolute best paddle, but I trust that it does what it needs to do. When I have an error, I know that it is my error and not the paddle. I think improving my technique or reading of the game is a lot more important that finding the perfect paddle.

2) There are 2 coaching TT clubs in my city so I play at both. Some of these coaches played in WTTTC representing the US, some won the WTTC, some play in the MLTT and SEA Games. I see how they conduct their coaching lessons, and I don't really feel that it would be super helpful for me and the areas that I want to improve.

What I really want most, is to have 20 different great servers just do 500 serves to me each. Then I could just get the repetitions. I feel repetitions is what I need most. But this is not easy to arrange.

And just for context, I have already exceeded the level that I wanted to get to. I started playing about 4 years ago and I just had 1 goal at the time: I wanted to be able to loop with some power. I didn't know how to loop at that time. Fast forward to 2025, and in the best match of my life I beat a 2140 rated LP chopper (former top 3 player in the US). I didn't win by luck, I won because I was looping all of his chops and broke through. So with zero coaching (mostly just coaching myself), with zero systematic training, I have already exceeded what I thought I could achieve. I can beat 2000 and 2100 with some regularity (say 25-30% win rate). So I think I can play at that high level, but I just can't do it all the time. I think the biggest thing that holds me back (not equipment) is the reading of serves.

Sometimes, you can tell coaches what you need to work on and they will do it for you even if they are coaching other students in a different way.

 

[Ghostzen]

I would go for shot selection and table craft for amateur players.
Sometimes it's not the quickest or fittest player thatcan be the winner.

It's getting your best shots going against the weakest target of the other player.