How to get the upper hand in bh-bh exchanges?

[doppelmoral]

Hi Community,

so this question will be a little bit vague but maybe some of you have some ideas. I play in a new league this year, since we got promoted last year. So far the matches going great, I can really feel that my opponents are alot better and tougher than previously, and the challenge is really fun.

Recently I had a match where I ended up in a lot of fast-paced Backhand to Backhand rallies versus a guy. Very shortly after serving and open up loops, the ball became very fast because he pinned me to my backhand with mostly fast punches but also occasional spin attacks. I am decent at holding the ball on my backhand and vary between passive blocks and active blocks where I add some spin, but I struggle to keep that up after a while, like after 4-5 exchanges. At some point the ball becomes very fast , especially when he switched to punching more. My passive blocks became floaty, so i tried active blocking, but it was very hard to add spin and vary placement when the ball is fast. His backhand was good, I give him credit, but I feel like I should have been better at avoiding this situation. He was also a balanced player with a spinny forehand, so its not as easy as "just play into his forehand"

Is there anything you can do to either slow the ball down, or practise how to get better at those bh-bh exchanges? I am already drilling those from time to time but I find it very hard to add quality when the ball reaches a certain speed, even in practise

Thank you for your tips

 

[Attitude]

Hit harder than your opponent?

To get more into Detail:
Try to become faster with your bh movement. Try drills like irregular blocks/drives into your bh-deep bh-middle and try to hit them with quality after getting yourself into position behind the ball.

Try to be more precise. Focus on hitting where your opponents elbow is or even slightly further out but not further so he can make use of his fh.

Depending on how close to the table you position yourself, you can change directions against opponents who have a better bh than you. Avoid their bh as soon as possible and try to redirect the ball into the deep fh down the line. Although this gets harder if the bh duel goes on, you can usually try this as soon as possible.

Try to pivot the first ball that comes slower into your bh. The moment your opponents tries to control the ball, take action, move around and try to take the ball with your fh. This takes a lot of practise, but is a good tactic to overpower a good bh.


Thats all i can think of so far. Hope that helps.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

This was a problem for Ma Long, actually. He couldn't keep up with players like Fan and Harimoto in BH-BH rallies. His solution was to change the backhand rubber from T05 to Hurricane 3. This slows the rally down and allows him to generate more spin.

it was very hard to add spin and vary placement when the ball is fast

if speed is your issue, you might consider trying Chinese rubber on BH.

I am pretty bad at fast BH-BH rallies, and switching to Chinese rubber helped me as well. Not only does it slow down the rally, but it lets me generate more spin, vary the spin, and generally gives me more options for shots.
- Varying the spin is already enough to confuse a lot of players. A spinny ball and then a flat ball gets them to dump it into the net. A flat ball followed by a spinny ball will often shoot off the end of the table.
- Chop blocking is an option that I use a lot when someone initiates a BH-BH rally. It disrupts the rally, it's very hard for the opponent to read the spin exactly, and it gives some time for you to prepare for your next shot by either stepping around, or stepping back to wind up for a more powerful hit.

 

[NetProphet]

Best basic start is to take the initiative in points by paying close attention to your placement. Don't just hit to the BH side, or to their hitting zone. Be the first in the point to hit to the middle or to the wide BH. Force them to move.
Making them move will often (but not always) mean and lower quality shot from them but it's is definitely more challenging for them.
If they cover your shot to their middle with their FH then put your next ball to the FH side and expect a cross court shot to your FH next.
If they cover it with their BH then go to their wide BH next and be ready for a weak return to your BH that you can punish.
You can do drills on this with your playing partner fairly easily and it's a great footwork and movement exercise for the other player.

Other tactics tend to be more difficult to implement but a heavy topspin, slightly slower and 'loopy' BH shot that lands deep on the table will usually force them back from the table a bit which (unless they have a BH like FZD or LSD) will mean a less dangerous shot from them that gives you more time. If you're watching carefully you can plan a pivot to your FH.

 

[lightspin]

Variation is the key. Most players are horrible moving to their left (if they are right handed), so if you can place the ball slightly to the left of their normal backahand location, you may get an easier ball the next shot. Another option is play slightly to the middle. You can also vary the pace, arc and the spin. You don't have to hit harder to win the point. Sometimes a slower ball to break the rhythm can do wonders.

 

[Doum]

You can try to surprise him with a chop block. Also adding side spin can give you an oportunity to use your FH on the next ball.

 

[NextLevel]

This was a problem for Ma Long, actually. He couldn't keep up with players like Fan and Harimoto in BH-BH rallies. His solution was to change the backhand rubber from T05 to Hurricane 3. This slows the rally down and allows him to generate more spin.


if speed is your issue, you might consider trying Chinese rubber on BH.

I am pretty bad at fast BH-BH rallies, and switching to Chinese rubber helped me as well. Not only does it slow down the rally, but it lets me generate more spin, vary the spin, and generally gives me more options for shots.
- Varying the spin is already enough to confuse a lot of players. A spinny ball and then a flat ball gets them to dump it into the net. A flat ball followed by a spinny ball will often shoot off the end of the table.
- Chop blocking is an option that I use a lot when someone initiates a BH-BH rally. It disrupts the rally, it's very hard for the opponent to read the spin exactly, and it gives some time for you to prepare for your next shot by either stepping around, or stepping back to wind up for a more powerful hit.

You do know that Ma Long switched to H3 on backhand long before he started struggling with Harimoto and Fan right? Just wondering how these stories get uncritically accepted by people in certain versions...

 

[NextLevel]

Hi Community,

so this question will be a little bit vague but maybe some of you have some ideas. I play in a new league this year, since we got promoted last year. So far the matches going great, I can really feel that my opponents are alot better and tougher than previously, and the challenge is really fun.

Recently I had a match where I ended up in a lot of fast-paced Backhand to Backhand rallies versus a guy. Very shortly after serving and open up loops, the ball became very fast because he pinned me to my backhand with mostly fast punches but also occasional spin attacks. I am decent at holding the ball on my backhand and vary between passive blocks and active blocks where I add some spin, but I struggle to keep that up after a while, like after 4-5 exchanges. At some point the ball becomes very fast , especially when he switched to punching more. My passive blocks became floaty, so i tried active blocking, but it was very hard to add spin and vary placement when the ball is fast. His backhand was good, I give him credit, but I feel like I should have been better at avoiding this situation. He was also a balanced player with a spinny forehand, so its not as easy as "just play into his forehand"

Is there anything you can do to either slow the ball down, or practise how to get better at those bh-bh exchanges? I am already drilling those from time to time but I find it very hard to add quality when the ball reaches a certain speed, even in practise

Thank you for your tips

Find someone witb a better backhand than yours and practice backhand exchanges. This always results in massive improvements no matter their backhand technique or style.

 

[KM1976]

Hi Community,

so this question will be a little bit vague but maybe some of you have some ideas. I play in a new league this year, since we got promoted last year. So far the matches going great, I can really feel that my opponents are alot better and tougher than previously, and the challenge is really fun.

Recently I had a match where I ended up in a lot of fast-paced Backhand to Backhand rallies versus a guy. Very shortly after serving and open up loops, the ball became very fast because he pinned me to my backhand with mostly fast punches but also occasional spin attacks. I am decent at holding the ball on my backhand and vary between passive blocks and active blocks where I add some spin, but I struggle to keep that up after a while, like after 4-5 exchanges. At some point the ball becomes very fast , especially when he switched to punching more. My passive blocks became floaty, so i tried active blocking, but it was very hard to add spin and vary placement when the ball is fast. His backhand was good, I give him credit, but I feel like I should have been better at avoiding this situation. He was also a balanced player with a spinny forehand, so its not as easy as "just play into his forehand"

Is there anything you can do to either slow the ball down, or practise how to get better at those bh-bh exchanges? I am already drilling those from time to time but I find it very hard to add quality when the ball reaches a certain speed, even in practise

Thank you for your tips

Hi,
I notice a couple of issues in the rallies as mentioned in your post which I am summarizing below -
1. You are overwhelmed with the speed of your opponent.
2. Since you are outpaced, you get nervous and lose the confidence to put the ball back on the table.

From my perspective, this is how you can mitigate the situation -
1. In a fast exchange, if you cannot match up the speed of your opponent, then you should try with changing the placement of the ball and this is a very fine adjustment of your racket angle specially when you are in BH BH exchange. Try to move the ball around a bit with confidence that you can make it land on the opposite side.
2. If the incoming ball is so fast that you can only block it back then too make sure that your opponent cannot place it anywhere but sends it back again to your backhand. This piggybacks to the the first point. Be aware of this situation and once you have played the block, take a hop back so as to give yourself a bit of room for the next ball.
3. The purpose of point 1 and 2 above it to get a chance ball from your opponent and open up the table on the opposite side where you can play with your dominant side which I presume will be your forehand.

You can practice the placement part in a fun way, try getting a fast ball directly on your backhand and try changing the angle of the blade while just blocking the ball so as to make the ball move either way. Again, as I mentioned don't overdo it as this gives amazing results with very subtle movements. This exercise will help you understand the correct angle and effort needed in a match situation.
Good luck!

 

[greenbeanmachine]

You do know that Ma Long switched to H3 on backhand long before he started struggling with Harimoto and Fan right? Just wondering how these stories get uncritically accepted by people in certain versions...

Yes, probably he was also struggling with players like Zhang Jike... regardless of who he was struggling with, my understanding of the reason for the switch was so that he could slow down the rally and add more spin. Is this incorrect?

 

[OvrChkn]

As someone who also struggles with BH-BH, what I've noticed that helps me is to:

1. Try to take the pace off the ball and have a more shallow depth on the table just to help me with my timing. In general, just get the opponent to move. When this fails,
2. I back off the table if I notice more of my BHs going into the net. This is where I get a lot of benefit and I hardly notice it until I dump 5 straight balls into the net and I'm down in the match. My positioning (close vs far, left vs right) is my main issue personally on the backhand.
3. Try to send the BH down parallel to get your opponent to move and start the FH rally.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, probably he was also struggling with players like Zhang Jike... regardless of who he was struggling with, my understanding of the reason for the switch was so that he could slow down the rally and add more spin. Is this incorrect?

Probably, I am of the "controversial in 2025" opinion that the plasticl ball while making two winged technique necessary, also made it easier to rally and exchange on the backhand by reducing the spin effect and the outright devastation of pure spin. Ma Long did make a slewnof changes to backhand equipment and technique after losing to Zhang Jike in World Cup 2024 final and we will never really know whether the technical changes were seperable from the equipment changes. It would have been nice if Wang Hao had maintained a strong enough level too challenge the new Ma Long, but only the alternate history buffs like me care about such.

 

[NextLevel]

As an aside, I remember at one time I was struggling in a league I played and was unable to deal with the topspin players there. And my backhand block just couldn't handle them, and this included the lefties. And the next lesson I had with my coach of late memory (@KM1976 knows who I am talking about), we practiced like 20 minutes of backhand rally where he just beat me up with topspin and punches and I just tried to hang in there. We didn't keep score, we didn't even make it a formal drill, I am not even sure i got the point of the drill.

The next week, I went to the same league and all those blocks I missed the previous week started landing on the table and my backhand became a superpower of sorts and I won league that week.

In general when I find really good backhand players, they usually tell the story of training with a really strong backhand player who just never missed. It just raises your concept of what you think is possible and makes you harder to break down. Ultimate it is good to have an offensive backhand, but in traditional TT, it is more important to have an unbreakable backhand especially if you have a good forehand. Better to start with unbreakable and then stack on offense if you have that choice than to try to hit winners off powerful backhands (which usually require going out of position and leave you susceptible to good blocks and counters). I wish my level was close enough to my current coach to train backhand to backhand with him i could easily gain 150 points in the process lol. But sin e he still competes it is probably not good for him to train with my backhand too much lol.

 

[NextLevel]

As someone who also struggles with BH-BH, what I've noticed that helps me is to:

1. Try to take the pace off the ball and have a more shallow depth on the table just to help me with my timing. In general, just get the opponent to move. When this fails,
2. I back off the table if I notice more of my BHs going into the net. This is where I get a lot of benefit and I hardly notice it until I dump 5 straight balls into the net and I'm down in the match. My positioning (close vs far, left vs right) is my main issue personally on the backhand.
3. Try to send the BH down parallel to get your opponent to move and start the FH rally.

In the men's game especially changing your playing distance to give you more time to hit powerful balls can be underestimated by players who don't habitually practice playing at different distances. But tied to your post, one recommendation for OP is to play backhands at multiple distances. While stepping back can make it harder for you to defend a block to your wide forehand, it also gives you more room to loop balls down the line and enables you to hit more powerful shots if you have that in your technical arsenal. Practicing taking balls at different distances and timings is always a good way to build better technique for matches.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

You practice to get a better BH than your opponent. , next question please

 

[Der_Echte]

Variation is the key. Most players are horrible moving to their left (if they are right handed), so if you can place the ball slightly to the left of their normal backahand location, you may get an easier ball the next shot. Another option is play slightly to the middle. You can also vary the pace, arc and the spin. You don't have to hit harder to win the point. Sometimes a slower ball to break the rhythm can do wonders.

I am in full agreement with variation and offer another way.

BH to BH typically are cross corner the longest distance of table... ESTABLISH a PATTERN... so hit 2 or 3 of same safe med to fast shot... then BREAK that PATTERN.

How? Usually it will be with sudden different placement.

2 targets.

1 - the MIDDLE... this is different for all players, but the elbow is a good start

2 - BETTER is quick med fast to fast shot down line of short side of table (opponent's FL line if RH player)

How to do this down the line shot... when you decide to do this shot, right as opponent strikes the ball and you are sure of it coming right back (it often will), you rotate to left on your ankles feet planted (this turns hips (and upper body follows) and now at impact your hips and upper body are oriented right down the line - an easy shot with no additional risk.

 

[Der_Echte]

@doppelmoral could always go to MyTT forum and ask that no-good BH-Man about this... he is always flapping his mouth off about BH shots, maybe he has an idea.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hi Community,

so this question will be a little bit vague but maybe some of you have some ideas. I play in a new league this year, since we got promoted last year. So far the matches going great, I can really feel that my opponents are alot better and tougher than previously, and the challenge is really fun.

Recently I had a match where I ended up in a lot of fast-paced Backhand to Backhand rallies versus a guy. Very shortly after serving and open up loops, the ball became very fast because he pinned me to my backhand with mostly fast punches but also occasional spin attacks. I am decent at holding the ball on my backhand and vary between passive blocks and active blocks where I add some spin, but I struggle to keep that up after a while, like after 4-5 exchanges. At some point the ball becomes very fast , especially when he switched to punching more. My passive blocks became floaty, so i tried active blocking, but it was very hard to add spin and vary placement when the ball is fast. His backhand was good, I give him credit, but I feel like I should have been better at avoiding this situation. He was also a balanced player with a spinny forehand, so its not as easy as "just play into his forehand"

Is there anything you can do to either slow the ball down, or practise how to get better at those bh-bh exchanges? I am already drilling those from time to time but I find it very hard to add quality when the ball reaches a certain speed, even in practise

Thank you for your tips

My personal experience: I have the opportunity to play with a regular at my club who has a decent BH and we regularly engage in Bh-BH duel and I lost mostly. Here is what he does better than me.
1. He can do punchy BH that pressure me with fast incoming ball.
2. All of the sudden, he can absorb the pace by some technique and the ball does not come to me but rather sometimes becomes floaty half long. This sudden change is what caught me by surprise 95% of the time.
3. He can vary the angle; sometimes wide BH & sometimes middle towards my cross-over point hence making me move around which force me to make unforced error.
4. Sudden block down-the-line.

 

[zeio]

Yes, probably he was also struggling with players like Zhang Jike... regardless of who he was struggling with, my understanding of the reason for the switch was so that he could slow down the rally and add more spin. Is this incorrect?

2018/3/25
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/german-open-2018.17332/post-225772

There're two sides to a coin, though.

ML said he decided to fix up his backhand after losing ZJK in the final at World Cup 2014. Changing to H3 on the backhand is said to force him to break his habit of borrowing power from the opponent, since tacky rubbers make you work for your shots.

OTOH, FZD changed his blade and lost to DO at the German Open 2017. Wu Jingping said that looking for excuses and solutions from equipment is unrealistic. Picking equipment that fits your style should be the priority, and that T05 works better for his technical trait.

2020/8/15
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...rs-chinese-warm-up-olympics.23824/post-320169

That's likely the 37° RED H3 that CNT has been using for several years. ML first changed to it after losing to ZJK in the World Cup 2014. Many others use it on their BH now. It has been available to the market for quite some years. It was finally released to the market a few months ago as a separate model - 狂飚3-37柔(Hurricane 3 - 37 Soft). The sponge is in orange.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254791303516139521

Before that, WLQ and XX first changed to #17(white sponge, unknown hardness) and #60(yellow sponge, many say 38°) under H3 topsheet in 2014, respectively.

LJK has been playing H3x2. That's old news. What's unusual in his case is the color is switched. One unconfirmed source, a shop owner , says [email protected]° and [email protected]°. Another says RED@43° and BLACK@41°.

2024/8/28
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/changing-rubbers-to-change-technique.34943/post-476171

Go for it. By the "coercion" of LGL, ML changed from TB ALC to 506 after WTTC 2011 to increase his spin and then T64 to H3 (prototype of 37 Soft?) after World Cup 2014 to improve his BH.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Ok I think I can talk a bit about this topic because BH and BH-to-BH is one of my relative strengths where I can challenge and often be better than much higher ranked players.

I stand close to the table with a good stance and with BH early timing is essential with compact stroke to recover.

I can’t systematically add spin or speed but I always manage to use the ball spin or speed and to adapt to it. Small footwork or body movement is important to catch balls slightly on the left or in the middle. Can’t compromise with the timing ! On easier balls I can add spin or speed or change placement.

My most recent improvement is to make the effort of keeping the racket really high like upper chest level , bat angle closed and not too close to the body to give space for backswing. It helps me timing the ball better and hit from above with bat angle closed and spin better.

I noticed this adjustment is required against the higher level players or to be able to adapt to soft pimples players who give variation to the ball. Because when you need to adapt it is faster to open the racket than close it. Soft pimple can play topspin but also give you flatter fast balls where it is needed to open the racket for more control.

As soon as I go back from the table even a little bit , my BH quality degrades a lot because the timing and footwork is wholly different. Fortunately I don’t need it as much in a match.

The thing where I need most to improve in BH keeping my balance and knees forward to play bit farther from the table and be more consistent against backspin and read the ball better. I often can’t judge well whether a push is backspin or no spin or react well fast enough to variations.

my BH started to improve dramatically in 2019 when i took lessons with my pro coach whose BH is world class and I started to mimic him. FH used to be my better shot until then.