China Smash 2025

[Catenaccio]

Winter is coming.

Miwa: "Dracarys!"

 

[shmek]

Adam mentioning you have to keep the palm flat unless you're Natalia Partyka was wild.

There's more coming. French players are like cockroaches, apparently
His vehicle doesn't quite have brakes, it seems…

 

[Metaxa]

Felix possibly saved by flash.

Pffffff, lucky boy!

 

[Nakira]

Pffffff, lucky boy!

That's normal, the guy in front wasn't Korean.

 

[NextLevel]

Adam mentioning you have to keep the palm flat unless you're Natalia Partyka was wild.

Hugo doesn't either.

 

[zeio]

Felix has improved a lot comparing to last year. This Chen Yuanyu is much stronger than last year Xiang Peng, in terms of international experience and match tactics but somehow he still manages to go through.

Hard to tell. XP took out Assar, Felix and Moregard last year. Felix was hot coming off the Paris 2024 and his "slump" didn't start until that loss to Duda at ETTC two weeks later.

 

[blahness]

From what I observe with Harimoto, he always prioritises (habit) not making a mistake with his FH so he is always going for a lot of spin in his contact instead of just going forward through the ball boldly. This is especially when he faces unfamiliar opponents.

He is perfectly capable of executing powerful loopkills with his FH, so I'm not sure why he tends to play so hesitant and goes for safety all the time. On the other hand you have Togami who doesn't have it in his dictionary- guy doesn't know how to play safe at all!

 

[TensorBackhand]

From what I observe with Harimoto, he always prioritises (habit) not making a mistake with his FH so he is always going for a lot of spin in his contact instead of just going forward through the ball boldly. This is especially when he faces unfamiliar opponents.

He is perfectly capable of executing powerful loopkills with his FH, so I'm not sure why he tends to play so hesitant and goes for safety all the time. On the other hand you have Togami who doesn't have it in his dictionary- guy doesn't know how to play safe at all!

I agree. He had so much success as a junior with his junior style that he never was forced to mature and evolve. His style has always been a rally style. When he is hot, he can feel like a wall like how he played FZD at the Olympics.

But he also gives his opponent many chances to attack or counter-attack.
He hasn't really been able to re-invent his forehand in these years.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Last year China Smash saw some players retired from CNT
this year too.
Good luck and enjoy the post CNT life!

 

[rpb23]

looked like it. the way he waved to the crowd as he left...chances are that this is the last time we get to see him in action.

melancholic end to a great player's career

Career wise, it's hard to describe LGY as a great player. A player with lightening fast speed and unique great backhand but with fragile mental strength and lackluster international performance, coupled with the high expectation on him and the numerous opportunity Chinese coaches gave him, he really is a underachiever.

 

[FIXPOINT]

China Smash 2025 WS R32

China Smash 2025 MS R32

 

[Dr Evil]

Career wise, it's hard to describe LGY as a great player. A player with lightening fast speed and unique great backhand but with fragile mental strength and lackluster international performance, coupled with the high expectation on him and the numerous opportunity Chinese coaches gave him, he really is a underachiever.

I think he's an overachiever who reached the absolute limits of his ability. Many skinny but successful athletes are much stronger than they look, but I don't think that's the case for LGY. He has to go all out all the time to generate useful power at the highest level. His margin for error is vanishingly small, and so it's no surprise that he's more liable to break down under pressure than other top players. I'd agree he's not the mentally toughest player, but no mentally weak player has ever had anything close to his level of success.

 

[Dr Evil]

Felix's quarter now has him and three qualifiers. And his first round opponent was Adi Sareen. Pretty good draw for a Smash.

 

[NextLevel]

I think he's an overachiever who reached the absolute limits of his ability. Many skinny but successful athletes are much stronger than they look, but I don't think that's the case for LGY. He has to go all out all the time to generate useful power at the highest level. His margin for error is vanishingly small, and so it's no surprise that he's more liable to break down under pressure than other top players. I'd agree he's not the mentally toughest player, but no mentally weak player has ever had anything close to his level of success.

The mentally weak thing is always the narrative rather than looking at the objective strength of a player. At best, he was tremendously unlucky. But no one gets that great at TT being mentally weak, he outperformed so many players to get to where he is that the narrative is a bit skewed towards remembering his failures and forgetting some of his major successes.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Career wise, it's hard to describe LGY as a great player. A player with lightening fast speed and unique great backhand but with fragile mental strength and lackluster international performance, coupled with the high expectation on him and the numerous opportunity Chinese coaches gave him, he really is a underachiever.

Someone who was a main member of the CNT and a top-10 to top-5 player for the better part of a decade is "not great"? That's a high bar lol.

Existing at the same time as ML FZD and ZJK and having a few notable massive chokes and mental game issues definitely prevented him from being an all-time great, but, still a lot of room for greatness below that.

 

[rpb23]

Someone who was a main member of the CNT and a top-10 to top-5 player for the better part of a decade is "not great"? That's a high bar lol.

Existing at the same time as ML FZD and ZJK and having a few notable massive chokes and mental game issues definitely prevented him from being an all-time great, but, still a lot of room for greatness below that.

Been in the CNT for so many years just shows he is tremendously talented (speed, quickness, let alone unique great backhand, traits natural and hard to train), no one can deny that. Talent alone doesn't define greatness, but overall achievement does, for Chinese, which is big stage international competitions. Compared to his teammates of similar talent level, he falls really short. Worse, people usually remember his big game failures, which he has plenty, that's just part of human nature.
Compare him to a Chinese legend LGL, (speed, and great serve), I can say LGY is more talented. Achievement? not even close.
After a few well known mental breakdowns in big games against non-Chinese, usually very unforgiving Chinese coaches showed extraordinary patience and kept him in the roster and continued giving him opportunity after opportunity. One of reasons is the rare talent they saw in him. It's hard to give up someone that talented.

But, it's the time he has finally spotted the sunset.

 

[zeio]

One key aspect to note not only in that last point but also other rallies is that Togami often moves away at the start of the loop to loop then tries to move in for the kill, but he doesn't change his pace and power to throw Lin off beforehand causing the returning ball being too difficult to kill. Not to mention Lin's amazing long range play, crazy how coach Ueda or Togami himself never once thought of a drop shot or soft block after pushing Lin away from the table

Put bluntly, Togami is dumb, not unlike Hayata. And in that sense, he's hardly improved. He already has the weapons, but it comes down to how he wields them. He has the swords but not the shields and how to get him to wield his swords defensively is the million dollar question. 七傷拳/cutting off his nose to spite his face, so to speak. For the time being, Ueda doesn't think it is ideal to "color him in his own way".

In Ueda's 2-part interview (published in July) with Butterfly after WTTC 2025, he went into detail on Togami, especially how he got "TKO" by Moregard (where he won the crucial points like in my analysis), how he has good offense but poor defense unlike allrounders like Mizutani and Kishikawa who could cope with their fantastic technical ability on the spot when offense doesn't work, how he's the type better off not overthinking but valuing the spur of the moment, how tactical plays don't mix with him and hence the focus on making the most of Togami's power by keeping things simple, and because of that, the higher he goes, the more likely he gets caught and the challenge down the road is how to attack without getting caught.

戸上隼輔の専属コーチ　上田仁インタビュー（前編）　
「『自分はこれに引かれて選手をやめてここにいるんだ』と気づかされました」」
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/026699.html
戸上隼輔の専属コーチ　上田仁インタビュー（後編）　
「僕のおかげでこの結果が出たとは全く思っていないです」
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/026700.html

 

[rpb23]

Been in the CNT for so many years just shows he is tremendously talented (speed, quickness, let alone unique great backhand, traits natural and hard to train), no one can deny that. Talent alone doesn't define greatness, but overall achievement does, for Chinese, which is big stage international competitions. Compared to his teammates of similar talent level, he falls really short. Worse, people usually remember his big game failures, which he has plenty, that's just part of human nature.
Compare him to a Chinese legend LGL, (speed, and great serve), I can say LGY is more talented. Achievement? not even close.
After a few well known mental breakdowns in big games against non-Chinese, usually very unforgiving Chinese coaches showed extraordinary patience and kept him in the roster and continued giving him the opportunity after opportunity. One of reasons is the rare talent they saw in him. It's hard to give up someone that talented.

But, it's the time he has finally spotted the sunset.

One player LGY can compare to is former teammate Fang Bo, about the same age group. Early in their career (youth competition and entering national team), FB was ahead of LGY.
FB is a solid player with good shot quality. Talent wise, LGY is way ahead of FB. However, in terms of overall achievement, FB to this day, still better than LGY with the appearance in the world's MS final against goat MLong where he gave ML all he could handle.
Though FB's international performance is better, he was retired a few years ago while LGY is still plugging along even after repeated memorable choking. The main reason to Chinese coaches, FB's ceiling is limited and he already had reached and LGY's ceiling was still way up there and they were willing to keep him.
I may describe LGY as a player with a tremendous talent and impressive skill but a fragile mental state who barely reached 60% of his potential before age and coaches finally give up on him.

Putting LGY in the pool of all non-Chinese players, he is a great player. Putting him among Chinese elites, not so much. Just check with the talented new comer, LSD, even at such a young age, LSD's achievement in the last two years has surpassed all the achievement of LGY's whole career, by a mile.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Been in the CNT for so many years just shows he is tremendously talented (speed, quickness, let alone unique great backhand, traits natural and hard to train), no one can deny that. Talent alone doesn't define greatness, but overall achievement does, for Chinese, which is big stage international competitions. Compared to his teammates of similar talent level, he falls really short. Worse, people usually remember his big game failures, which he has plenty, that's just part of human nature.
Compare him to a Chinese legend LGL, (speed, and great serve), I can say LGY is more talented. Achievement? not even close.
After a few well known mental breakdowns in big games against non-Chinese, usually very unforgiving Chinese coaches showed extraordinary patience and kept him in the roster and continued giving him the opportunity after opportunity. One of reasons is the rare talent they saw in him. It's hard to give up someone that talented.

But, it's the time he has finally spotted the sunset.

I don't think anyone will dispute that he is not an all-time great by Chinese team standards. But great by table tennis standards? Absolutely.

He was kept in the roster because he still proved he was the next-best after the GOATs and nobody convincingly seized his position for many years, not simply because he was a raw talent that didn't frequently deliver against the best in the world.

As for achievement:

6-1 lifetime H2H against Dima
3-3 against Boll
4-1 against Mizutani
8-3 against Niwa
3-3 against Xu Xin
5-7 against FZD excluding WJTTC and T2 Diamond

This track record doesn't make you great?

 

[rpb23]

I don't think anyone will dispute that he is not an all-time great by Chinese team standards. But great by table tennis standards? Absolutely.

He was kept in the roster because he still proved he was the next-best after the GOATs and nobody convincingly seized his position for many years, not simply because he was a raw talent that didn't frequently deliver against the best in the world.

As for achievement:

6-1 lifetime H2H against Dima
3-3 against Boll
4-1 against Mizutani
8-3 against Niwa
3-3 against Xu Xin
5-7 against FZD excluding WJTTC and T2 Diamond

This track record doesn't make you great?

Remember LGY is in the top tier Chinese team for many years. The Judging criterion for Chinese is different and unique. H2H winning just means he is high level player and very talented. To be a great for Chinese, you need medals, medals heavy and many.
To be clear, when I say LGY is an excellent player but not a great player, I am comparing him in Chinese standard. I have no issue if you regard him as a great player comparing to all players, Chinese or non-Chinese.
The players you listed above LGY faced, all(maybe minus Niwa) have achieved far better career results than LGY even though LGY's raw talent is second to none of them.