How to deal with no spin long balls?

[pedro.dantas]

Hey, this is the kind of situation i make a lot of mistakes, i have a lot of trouble with that kind of ball, like when you serve with some backspin, and the receiver pushes back taking out the spin from the ball, so it comes a bit long and dead, making it really easy to go off the table if you loop, like in this video :

, Fan zhendong serves with backspin, wang chuqin pushes back long to Fan's BH, and instead of looping or pushing it back with backspin, Fan lifts the ball with the flat racket, giving Wang a ball with no spin, wich he miss.

What should someone do in this kind of situation? Go for a risky flat shot? Wait for the ball to drop then slow loop? It looks really tricky to me.

 

[jk1980]

That is not no spin. Due to the grippy rubber of fzd's lifting touch you still get back backspin, just not as much with a chop.

The lifted return was quite high. That is why wcq decided to power drive it instead of looping it.

Fzd's decision to lift it actually made much sense, since wcq increased the backspin in the ball by chopping it. This is a situation were amateurs often don't realize the increased amount of spin and try to push with the same angle as the push before and that results in them hitting it into the net.

If a long pips player returned a low backspin ball it would be much closer to no spin than this.

 

[PhoenixTT]

8:57 is nearly exactly the same sequence. FZD sends the float to WCQ FH, except WCQ successfully attacks it with his BH.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Power drive

 

[NextLevel]

Hey, this is the kind of situation i make a lot of mistakes, i have a lot of trouble with that kind of ball, like when you serve with some backspin, and the receiver pushes back taking out the spin from the ball, so it comes a bit long and dead, making it really easy to go off the table if you loop, like in this video :

, Fan zhendong serves with backspin, wang chuqin pushes back long to Fan's BH, and instead of looping or pushing it back with backspin, Fan lifts the ball with the flat racket, giving Wang a ball with no spin, wich he miss.

What should someone do in this kind of situation? Go for a risky flat shot? Wait for the ball to drop then slow loop? It looks really tricky to me.

Everyone knows what to do if they read the ball correctly and are not under pressure. The problem is that under pressure mistakes happen. Most people misread as topspin or underspin and therefore apply topspin or underspin strokes, if they read as no spin they drive more forward while creating the impact or grip to catch the ball as no spin.

 

[WingTT]

There a ZJK video out there explaining how to do it. Put brushing spin near the top of the ball to give it enough spin to safely arc down. Don't attack blindly with power.

 

[merlin el mago]

That's the question all long pips players want to resolve.

 

[PoppaChubby]

That is not no spin. Due to the grippy rubber of fzd's lifting touch you still get back backspin, just not as much with a chop.

The lifted return was quite high. That is why wcq decided to power drive it instead of looping it.

Fzd's decision to lift it actually made much sense, since wcq increased the backspin in the ball by chopping it. This is a situation were amateurs often don't realize the increased amount of spin and try to push with the same angle as the push before and that results in them hitting it into the net.

If a long pips player returned a low backspin ball it would be much closer to no spin than this.

He learned the faux spin trick in Europe sir... Alexis is a notorious faux spin guy, if you listen to him (and you understand french) he always talk about how he tricked his opponent with faux topspin, faux serves, and Molin reply by saying "yeah that's good here and there to disrupt him!". You think there's spin because of the rubber, but how the ball meets the rubber is way more important.

 

[PoppaChubby]

Power drive

Not that easy when you're used to received spinny balls, a long flat ball won't have the same curve after the rebound as a spinny one, power drive isn't enough, you have to think about moving forward all your body. It's like flat serves "yeah easy power drive and done" but no, when they are low, long and directed to your elbow, it's really difficult to deal with. I've made countless of free points that way.

 

[PoppaChubby]

Everyone knows what to do if they read the ball correctly and are not under pressure. The problem is that under pressure mistakes happen. Most people misread as topspin or underspin and therefore apply topspin or underspin strokes, if they read as no spin they drive more forward while creating the impact or grip to catch the ball as no spin.

Yeah that's easy dude, sure...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Not that easy when you're used to received spinny balls, a long flat ball won't have the same curve after the rebound as a spinny one, power drive isn't enough, you have to think about moving forward all your body. It's like flat serves "yeah easy power drive and done" but no, when they are low, long and directed to your elbow, it's really difficult to deal with. I've made countless of free points that way.

sure
foot work + power drive

you have a video of yourself showing us how it is done?

 

[pedro.dantas]

He learned the faux spin trick in Europe sir... Alexis is a notorious faux spin guy, if you listen to him (and you understand french) he always talk about how he tricked his opponent with faux topspin, faux serves, and Molin reply by saying "yeah that's good here and there to disrupt him!". You think there's spin because of the rubber, but how the ball meets the rubber is way more important.

Faux spin? Do you mean Fake spin?

 

[zeio]

Faux just sounds more "upscale".

Tennis de table > Table tennis

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/weird-spin-on-hurricane-3.22556/post-300950
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-singapore-smash-2024-3-7-3-17.33147/post-447220

https://www.reddit.com/r/ENGLISH/comments/1g92q0s/why_are_french_word_used_in_english_when_theres_a/

 

[zeio]

As for how to handle a loose no-spin ball, especially in tight moments:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-be-revamped-for-paris-2024.24977/post-474046

In case all the posts I've made have not been crystal clear, the first requirement to "keeping the ball on the table" is to stop yourself from the strong urge to finish the point, more often than not with difficult shots that end up going long. The terms that refer to the situation in Chinese are:
起板(opening up, and in this case you need to hold back as Harimoto explained in the quote below);
發死力 (forcing the shots with your muscles stiffening up);
加保險 (adding insurance, which is equivalent to really spinny loops with a relatively higher and shorter trajectory);
上枱 (getting on table) and so on.
...

 

[blahness]

The reason why WCQ missed is because he was preparing to counterloop FZD's BH loop so he was positioned a bit farther away, FZD used his BH to float back a shorter high ball and now he needs to move in to kill the ball, so it is not a simple "long no spin ball". WCQ did well and almost nailed it but just missed because he went too hard. If he went for more spin he would have landed it.

 

[blahness]

TLDR, loop with more spin over the top of the ball and you wont miss it.

 

[pong99]

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is wrong as poppychubby said
We need to wait for his video demonstration