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Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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An 2023 interview on ESN and Butterfly rubbers between KONNO Noboru of Table Tennis Kingdom and MASAMI Mitsuhiro of table tennis shop Takkenka 840, who worked for a Japanese rubber manufacturer for 7 years [TL's note: Daiki or Fuso?].
「ドイツラバーがなかったら、卓球メーカーも卓球ショップも存続できていなかったかもしれない」(正海)
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/99542
I think there are a certain number of people who are happy with the German rubber they are using now .
They have established a brand, and I thought
everyone would go to Tamasu, but in reality, that's not the case.
●-In this issue of Table Tennis Goods 2023, we wrote an article about German rubber supplier ESN. We will also be introducing ESN in the next issue of Table Tennis Kingdom. What have you seen over the past 10 to 15 years, when German rubber has become somewhat well-known and compared to Butterfly rubber?
"OEM (original equipment manufacturer) companies don't want to be in the public eye, and manufacturers don't want to be in the public eye either, but with German rubber selling so well, the balance has flipped. I have the impression that Germany has become much stronger. I sensed this when I heard from manufacturers about the release of new products and rising purchase prices. (ESN) has power."
●-When I was writing the article for this special edition, I wrote it in opposition to Butterfly, but normally Butterfly is reluctant to compare itself with other companies. In fact, even when trying out different clubs, I feel that it is becoming harder to tell the difference between German and Butterfly at the intermediate level.
"In the past, Tamasu (Butterfly) was certainly the best, but now German rubbers are comparable. The performance of German rubbers is steadily improving. In fact, German rubbers are selling better in the middle class. 'G-1' (Nittaku) and the 'Rakza' series (Yasaka) are also selling well."
- When did the market turn?
"Around the time Andro's 'Hexar HD' came out, rubbers with great bounce started to appear, such as the 'V>15' (VICTAS), which is comparable in shot distance to 'Tenergy'. Also, the ball grip has gotten better recently."
●-However, it is said that Butterfly products have almost no "variation."
"Tamasu still leads the way in quality control. Other companies sometimes make rubber that is misaligned in the center, but that doesn't happen with Tamasu. The sponge is clean, and the straining of the sponge is also neat. We also measure the hardness of the rubber, and it is consistent. That's different from Germany."
●-When Butterfly released the Glayzer in the spring, shop owners at the Butterfly Fair were saying things like, "If Butterfly releases this, it'll be tough for other manufacturers." It's been about three months since then, so how is the market actually moving?
"It's true that since Ms. Osawa took over as president, they've not only been releasing high-end products, but also slightly cheaper versions, so I think it's been tough for other manufacturers. However, with German rubbers getting so good, I think there are a certain number of people who are satisfied with the German rubbers they're using now. They've established a brand, and I thought everyone would switch to Tamasu, but that's not actually the case. Even I've noticed since then that when compared to the G-1, the G-1 bounces better. People who are used to or like the German rubber don't move it as much. The Glayzer has great ball control, and it creates a solid arc no matter how you hit it, which is impressive. I don't think people who use the G-1 and like the bounce will switch."
-From the perspective of a rubber expert, what do Butterfly rubbers and German rubbers have in common?
"The ball retention of Tamasu rubbers is unique. There are rubbers that are soft and have good ball retention, but when you measure Tamasu rubbers, they are fairly hard, not soft, yet they feel like they have good ball retention. I wonder if it's the balance between the sheet and the sponge.
If you read an article, it says that German rubbers are completely different depending on the manufacturer, but in reality they're not that different. The only thing I feel is that Tibhar is a little different."
●-Masami-san has said on social media that other Japanese OEM factories may become the third pillar.
"When I worked at that company, speed glue was in its heyday. I think it fell behind when glue disappeared, but I think the unique Japanese softness and good ball retention are good for intermediate players. As German rubber becomes more expensive, this rubber will become one of the options. It is also less affected by the weak yen (foreign exchange rate). From the customer's perspective, it is attractive. Currently, a large number of rubbers in the 4,000 to 5,000 yen range are German, but I think Japanese rubbers can easily make inroads there."
●-There is a problem with capacity (production volume).
"Manufacturing is not keeping up at all."
「ドイツラバーがなかったら、卓球メーカーも卓球ショップも存続できていなかったかもしれない」(正海)
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/99542
"Without German rubbers, table tennis manufacturers and shops might not have survived," says Masami.今自分が使っているドイツラバーで
良いという人も一定数いるような気がします。
そこはブランドを確立していて、
ぼくはみんなタマスに行くのではないかと
思ったら、実際はそうでもない
●−今回別冊「卓球グッズ2023」でドイツラバーのサプライヤーESNを記事にしました。次の卓球王国でもESNを紹介しています。ドイツラバーがある程度認知され、バタフライのラバーと比較されているこの10年、15年というのは正海さんにはどう見えていましたか?
「OEM(相手先ブランドでの製造)の会社というのは表には出れないし、メーカーも出したがらないものですが、これだけドイツラバーが売れていると力加減がひっくり返っている。ずいぶんドイツが強くなっているイメージはあります。それは新作の発売や、仕入れ値が上がっていることをメーカーさんから聞いて、それを感じていました。(ESNが)力を持っていますね」
●−今回、別冊で記事を作る時に、バタフライとの対立軸で記事を書いたのですが、通常はバタフライは他社と比較するのを嫌がります。実際には試打をしても中級者レベルではドイツとバタフライの差がわかりにくくなっていると感じています。
「以前は確かにタマス(バタフライ)が一番でしたが、今はドイツラバーでも遜色ないですね。ドイツラバーの性能はどんどん上がっています。ミドルクラスではドイツラバーのほうがむしろ売れている。『G-1』(ニッタク)、『ラクザ』シリーズ(ヤサカ)も売れています」
●−どの辺から市場の潮目が変わったのでしょうか?
「アンドロの『ヘキサーHD』が出たあたりから、えらい弾むラバーが出てきて、『V>15』(VICTAS)が出てきたり、飛距離としては『テナジー』と遜色がない。それに最近はボールの引っかかりも良くなっています」
●−ただバタフライのものは「バラツキ」はほとんどないと言われますね。
「品質管理はいまだにタマスがリードしていますね。他社ではラバーの真ん中がズレているというのはたまにありますが、タマスはそれがない。スポンジもきれいだし、スポンジの漉(す)きもきれいです。うちはラバーの硬度も測っていますが、硬度はずれていない。そこはドイツとは違う」
●−春にバタフライが『グレイザー』を発売した時に、バタフライ・フェアでショップの方々が「これをバタフライが出したら、他のメーカーは大変だ」と口々に言ってましたが、あれから3カ月ほど経って、実際の市場はどう動いていますか。
「確かに大澤さんに社長が変わってから、高級路線だけでなく、やや廉価版のものを出してきているので、他のメーカーは大変だとは思います。ただ、これだけドイツラバーが良くなっていると、今自分が使っているドイツラバーで良いという人も一定数いるような気がします。そこはブランドを確立していて、ぼくはみんなタマスに行くのではないかと思ったら、実際はそうでもない。ぼくもあの後、『G-1』と比べたら、『G-1』のほうが弾むんですよ。ドイツに慣れている、ドイツが好きという人はあまり動かない。『グレイザー』は球持ちとか、どう当ててもしっかり弧線を描くのはさすがです。『G-1』を使っていて、あのはずみが好きな人は移行しないと思います」
●−ラバーのエキスパートが見た時に、バタフライラバーの共通性と、ドイツラバーの共通性というのは何ですか。
「タマスのラバーのあの球持ち感は他にはない。硬度が軟らかく球持ちが良いラバーはあるけど、タマスのラバーは測るとそれなりに硬くて、軟らかくないのに、球持ちが良いように感じるのは、シートとスポンジのバランスなんでしょうかね。
記事を見れば、ドイツラバーはメーカーによって全然違うと書かれているけど、実際にはそれほどは違うものはない。唯一ティバーは少し違う気はしますけどね」
●−正海さんはSNSで日本の他のOEM工場が第三基軸になるかもと言っていますが。
「私がその会社で働いていた時にはスピードグルー全盛時代でした。グルーがなくなった時からは遅れていったと思うけど、日本独自の柔らかさ、球持ちの良さは中級者には良いと思います。ドイツラバーが高価になっていくと、そのラバーは選択肢のひとつになりますね。それに円安(為替)の影響も受けづらいですね。お客さん目線からすれば、魅力を感じます。今、4千円、5千円のラバーはドイツラバーが相当多いですが、日本製ラバーもそこには十分食い込めると思います」
●−キャパ(キャパシティ・生産量)の問題はありますね。
「製造が全然追いついていないですね」
●−正海さんから見て、卓球のラバーはどう進んでいくと予想しますか。
「ぼくは競争があることで、タマスも『グレイザー』を出しただろうし、競争があるからドイツラバーも良くなって来たと思います」
●−記事にも書きましたが、ドイツでニクラスがESNをスタートさせていなかったら、世界の卓球市場は全く違ったものになったでしょうね。
「大変なことになっていますね。卓球メーカーも卓球ショップも存続できていなかったかもしれない」
●−卓球ショップも影響を受けますか。
「昔ながらに『スレイバー』『マークV』しかない時代だったら卓球ショップは生き残っていけない。選択肢が少ないから」
●−選択肢が少ないとユーザーも動かないということですか。
「そうです。この多様性、この競争は大事で、タマスとドイツだけでなく、他の日本の工場や卓球メーカーにも頑張って欲しい。メーカーもドイツだけではなく、選択肢が多いほうが良い。おそらく『グレイザー』もドイツラバーがなかったら出さないんじゃないですか。出す必要はないでしょうね」
●−正海さんは卓球ショップをやって何年ですか?
「12年ですね」
●−市場が『テナジー』全盛の時ですね。
「『テナジー』一色でしたね。ただドイツ製はたくさんありましたよ、すでに」
●−それで当時定価6千円の『テナジー』が2015年に値上げしましたね。
「あれも大反対でしたね。ぼくも『ふざけるな』と思ってました」
●−その前にタマスは出荷価格を上げていますね。
「その時、ぼくはお店をやっていないですね。ただ、今となっては『テナジー』が値上げして、それによってドイツラバーも上がって、そのお陰で助かっています。売上も上がりました。あれがないと他のメーカーもきつかったと思います」
●−さかのぼると、1997年に『ブライス』を定価5千円にしたことが大きかった。
「そうです、タマスの久保彰太郎(元専務・故人)さんのお陰ですね。『テナジー』が6千円定価だったらお店は成り立たないですね。『G-1』も6千円以上にはできない。ESNだって苦しいと思います。だけど、当時は大反対でした(笑)。タマスの自社生産の強さだと思います」
I think there are a certain number of people who are happy with the German rubber they are using now .
They have established a brand, and I thought
everyone would go to Tamasu, but in reality, that's not the case.
●-In this issue of Table Tennis Goods 2023, we wrote an article about German rubber supplier ESN. We will also be introducing ESN in the next issue of Table Tennis Kingdom. What have you seen over the past 10 to 15 years, when German rubber has become somewhat well-known and compared to Butterfly rubber?
"OEM (original equipment manufacturer) companies don't want to be in the public eye, and manufacturers don't want to be in the public eye either, but with German rubber selling so well, the balance has flipped. I have the impression that Germany has become much stronger. I sensed this when I heard from manufacturers about the release of new products and rising purchase prices. (ESN) has power."
●-When I was writing the article for this special edition, I wrote it in opposition to Butterfly, but normally Butterfly is reluctant to compare itself with other companies. In fact, even when trying out different clubs, I feel that it is becoming harder to tell the difference between German and Butterfly at the intermediate level.
"In the past, Tamasu (Butterfly) was certainly the best, but now German rubbers are comparable. The performance of German rubbers is steadily improving. In fact, German rubbers are selling better in the middle class. 'G-1' (Nittaku) and the 'Rakza' series (Yasaka) are also selling well."
- When did the market turn?
"Around the time Andro's 'Hexar HD' came out, rubbers with great bounce started to appear, such as the 'V>15' (VICTAS), which is comparable in shot distance to 'Tenergy'. Also, the ball grip has gotten better recently."
●-However, it is said that Butterfly products have almost no "variation."
"Tamasu still leads the way in quality control. Other companies sometimes make rubber that is misaligned in the center, but that doesn't happen with Tamasu. The sponge is clean, and the straining of the sponge is also neat. We also measure the hardness of the rubber, and it is consistent. That's different from Germany."
●-When Butterfly released the Glayzer in the spring, shop owners at the Butterfly Fair were saying things like, "If Butterfly releases this, it'll be tough for other manufacturers." It's been about three months since then, so how is the market actually moving?
"It's true that since Ms. Osawa took over as president, they've not only been releasing high-end products, but also slightly cheaper versions, so I think it's been tough for other manufacturers. However, with German rubbers getting so good, I think there are a certain number of people who are satisfied with the German rubbers they're using now. They've established a brand, and I thought everyone would switch to Tamasu, but that's not actually the case. Even I've noticed since then that when compared to the G-1, the G-1 bounces better. People who are used to or like the German rubber don't move it as much. The Glayzer has great ball control, and it creates a solid arc no matter how you hit it, which is impressive. I don't think people who use the G-1 and like the bounce will switch."
-From the perspective of a rubber expert, what do Butterfly rubbers and German rubbers have in common?
"The ball retention of Tamasu rubbers is unique. There are rubbers that are soft and have good ball retention, but when you measure Tamasu rubbers, they are fairly hard, not soft, yet they feel like they have good ball retention. I wonder if it's the balance between the sheet and the sponge.
If you read an article, it says that German rubbers are completely different depending on the manufacturer, but in reality they're not that different. The only thing I feel is that Tibhar is a little different."
●-Masami-san has said on social media that other Japanese OEM factories may become the third pillar.
"When I worked at that company, speed glue was in its heyday. I think it fell behind when glue disappeared, but I think the unique Japanese softness and good ball retention are good for intermediate players. As German rubber becomes more expensive, this rubber will become one of the options. It is also less affected by the weak yen (foreign exchange rate). From the customer's perspective, it is attractive. Currently, a large number of rubbers in the 4,000 to 5,000 yen range are German, but I think Japanese rubbers can easily make inroads there."
●-There is a problem with capacity (production volume).
"Manufacturing is not keeping up at all."