Technique correction - Trying to Fix my FH backstroke + hitting through the sponge

[Zezima]

I would be the 3rd person to agree with that - it actually looks pro-like with that video.

So I should practise like in that 3min long video that I have posted?

If the answer is yes. How should I deal with blocks. I feel like sometimes I am late opening my arm and if I am late I also rotate my hips more controlled if I rotate even. Because I just use the incoming speed without adding extra with the hips.

What tends to happen if I am late is that the arm is still down and at contact point my elbow raises and tries to get over the ball. Then I cant add spin because I am busy to get over the ball and force it down.
All signs of hitting too late.
Maybe standing another half step back?

Atleast vs block and until I get faster with recovery of my stroke?

I also seem to struggle vs higher and longer close to the white line blocks. But not high enough to just smash. I also see pros when hitting such a ball they loop to their left shoulder. I always stop around my left eye. Should the motion be like a half circle where I brush and then push the ball down and end around my legt shoulder aswell?

 

[blahness]

So I should practise like in that 3min long video that I have posted?

If the answer is yes. How should I deal with blocks. I feel like sometimes I am late opening my arm and if I am late I also rotate my hips more controlled if I rotate even. Because I just use the incoming speed without adding extra with the hips.

What tends to happen if I am late is that the arm is still down and at contact point my elbow raises and tries to get over the ball. Then I cant add spin because I am busy to get over the ball and force it down.
All signs of hitting too late.
Maybe standing another half step back?

Atleast vs block and until I get faster with recovery of my stroke?

I also seem to struggle vs higher and longer close to the white line blocks. But not high enough to just smash. I also see pros when hitting such a ball they loop to their left shoulder. I always stop around my left eye. Should the motion be like a half circle where I brush and then push the ball down and end around my legt shoulder aswell?

The reason why it is slow is because you are not initiating the backswing with your hips and legs first, and also not initiating the forward swing with hips and legs first.

One good way to get faster is to practice that hip rotation and weight shift on itself (without arm movement) and make it as fast and powerful as possible. You can measure how many times you can weight shift per second (basically it should be faster than 1 time per second if you do it correctly). You will also realise that you have to brace your core to make it faster. Then, blocks will no longer bother you much because you'll always be faster than the ball. Experiment around to see which method gives you the fastest hip rotation + weight shift.

Yes for higher balls you should finish more to your left, but again this should not be arm but more from the body pressing down towards your left foot during the followthrough.

 

[sebi]

If the pros end at their shouler ist still a top spin but with a lot flatter swing.
They mostly still start back nut just swing a lot lower. Don't try to push the ball down just swing flatter.
If youbare to slow in top spin close to the table make a shooter swing then your recovery is faster
Stepping back always means that you lose control over wide angles.

 

[Zezima]

The reason why it is slow is because you are not initiating the backswing with your hips and legs first, and also not initiating the forward swing with hips and legs first.

One good way to get faster is to practice that hip rotation and weight shift on itself (without arm movement) and make it as fast and powerful as possible. You can measure how many times you can weight shift per second (basically it should be faster than 1 time per second if you do it correctly). You will also realise that you have to brace your core to make it faster. Then, blocks will no longer bother you much because you'll always be faster than the ball. Experiment around to see which method gives you the fastest hip rotation + weight shift.

Yes for higher balls you should finish more to your left, but again this should not be arm but more from the body pressing down towards your left foot during the followthrough.

No I watched it in slowmo. I do initiate my backswing using hips. Same with forwards. Only thing about going forwards is I am sometimes only at 10% rotating (starting later) but thats mainly because I don't aim for a hard topspin but more for control.

I do need to start brace my core now but my brain capacity is still being used for the fh motion right now. I am still worrying about my racket angle whether I am doing it right or still come from closed to open since it's hard to check on yourself while trying to watch the ball and hit it.

I also saw FZD not using hips when the block comes fast to his fh. And/or when he is not in position eg ball goes to his elbow and he has to hit it just by reacting.

I do realize though against long backspin balls I still use the old safe way of looping those balls but I have higher quality (riskier) when I use my hips forwards. if I misjudge the spin it goes out.

Forget the higher ball this is not explainable in words.

 

[dingyibvs]

No I watched it in slowmo. I do initiate my backswing using hips. Same with forwards. Only thing about going forwards is I am sometimes only at 10% rotating (starting later) but thats mainly because I don't aim for a hard topspin but more for control.

I do need to start brace my core now but my brain capacity is still being used for the fh motion right now. I am still worrying about my racket angle whether I am doing it right or still come from closed to open since it's hard to check on yourself while trying to watch the ball and hit it.

I also saw FZD not using hips when the block comes fast to his fh. And/or when he is not in position eg ball goes to his elbow and he has to hit it just by reacting.

I do realize though against long backspin balls I still use the old safe way of looping those balls but I have higher quality (riskier) when I use my hips forwards. if I misjudge the spin it goes out.

Forget the higher ball this is not explainable in words.

Still, work on your hip-based backswing, make it faster and it'll be easier. You can also take a small step back after your first loop to give yourself a little more time. Even modern pros who play close to the take back off a little bit usually when the rally starts. And lastly, as you've correctly deduced, sometimes you'll just need to shorten your swing as FZD and really everyone else does.

First thing first though, get your basic stroke right, because everything is a derivative of it. All FH attacks are derivatives of the basic FH drive, including the FH loop, and all types of FH loops are derivatives of the basic FH loop. Take the quick loop with seemingly no hip turn, for example. It doesn't look like the hip is generating power, but it is.

It's just basic physics, really. For every action there's an equal but opposite reaction. Your forward going racket action will generate and equal and opposite reaction, which if not countered by your hip/leg then will cause your body to go backwards. That is, if the hip isn't trying to rotate forward in that situation, then physics dictate that it would actually move backwards instead.

 

[blahness]

No I watched it in slowmo. I do initiate my backswing using hips. Same with forwards. Only thing about going forwards is I am sometimes only at 10% rotating (starting later) but thats mainly because I don't aim for a hard topspin but more for control.

I do need to start brace my core now but my brain capacity is still being used for the fh motion right now. I am still worrying about my racket angle whether I am doing it right or still come from closed to open since it's hard to check on yourself while trying to watch the ball and hit it.

I also saw FZD not using hips when the block comes fast to his fh. And/or when he is not in position eg ball goes to his elbow and he has to hit it just by reacting.

I do realize though against long backspin balls I still use the old safe way of looping those balls but I have higher quality (riskier) when I use my hips forwards. if I misjudge the spin it goes out.

Forget the higher ball this is not explainable in words.

You have to use your hips to initiate all the time, even against block or in bad positions. Even if it is a super small movement it is required - and yes it should even be used in countering or blocking. Those fast FZD counters all use his hips to initiate the movement.

I can see you use your hips, but the coordination between lower and upper body (ie the timing) looks a bit suspect - maybe the core bracing is the issue here.

How fast your FH is ultimately is dependent on how fast you can do your weight transfer and hip rotation, the arm almost doesnt matter all that much. This is why you can actually isolate it out and practice it. Time yourself to see how many reps you can do in say 20 seconds. The more reps you can do, the more easily you can weight shift and this allows you to unleash your FH on increasingly difficult balls and can cope with elbow jamming or fast wide blocks.

My penhold practice partner who could do complete weight shifts 100 times in a minute - was damn impressive to see. His FH was just insane lol.

 

[Zezima]

Still, work on your hip-based backswing, make it faster and it'll be easier. You can also take a small step back after your first loop to give yourself a little more time. Even modern pros who play close to the take back off a little bit usually when the rally starts. And lastly, as you've correctly deduced, sometimes you'll just need to shorten your swing as FZD and really everyone else does.

First thing first though, get your basic stroke right, because everything is a derivative of it. All FH attacks are derivatives of the basic FH drive, including the FH loop, and all types of FH loops are derivatives of the basic FH loop. Take the quick loop with seemingly no hip turn, for example. It doesn't look like the hip is generating power, but it is.

It's just basic physics, really. For every action there's an equal but opposite reaction. Your forward going racket action will generate and equal and opposite reaction, which if not countered by your hip/leg then will cause your body to go backwards. That is, if the hip isn't trying to rotate forward in that situation, then physics dictate that it would actually move backwards instead.

Why should I rotate faster when I am already happy with the speed and pace? My goal was to get reps in against block not to end the rally. He also doesn't give me passive block but gives it back with good pace.

My fh loop looks different than from drive.
For example there is forearm horizontal move when using a drive but its more of a constant acceleration. When using the fh loop its more of a "whip".

I am still experimenting the different gears between the drive and loop. So the transition becomes smoother.

You have to use your hips to initiate all the time, even against block or in bad positions. Even if it is a super small movement it is required - and yes it should even be used in countering or blocking. Those fast FZD counters all use his hips to initiate the movement.

I can see you use your hips, but the coordination between lower and upper body (ie the timing) looks a bit suspect - maybe the core bracing is the issue here.

How fast your FH is ultimately is dependent on how fast you can do your weight transfer and hip rotation, the arm almost doesnt matter all that much. This is why you can actually isolate it out and practice it. Time yourself to see how many reps you can do in say 20 seconds. The more reps you can do, the more easily you can weight shift and this allows you to unleash your FH on increasingly difficult balls and can cope with elbow jamming or fast wide blocks.

My penhold practice partner who could do complete weight shifts 100 times in a minute - was damn impressive to see. His FH was just insane lol.

Again if we just focus on the 3min video I am using it.
Which timing looks suspect? I guess I could hit the ball a bit earlier when I rotated a bit more? So instead of hitting when I have only rotated 10% I should aim for 30-50% atleast?

I don't think I saw any hip rotation from fzd. It was arm driven.

There are 2 things right now.

1. I practise too much the normal drive and too much the fh loop with the whip motion into the ball and too less the "mini" loops transition between these 2 strokes.

2. For each Ball I try to get that whip motion in even though I don't have the time. It's like a forced stroke. I am not experienced enough to tell if I can actually use the long stroke or not. During this I am also busy actively thinking about opening my arm. Lifting my arm and rotating my wrist so the bat angle opens up.

While doing all that the hip comes as 3rd depending on how fast the inc ball is and how long it takes me to swing in to the ball I use less hips or more hips.

I wonder how it looks like once the swing,opening wrist, and swingpath gets automated.

 

[dingyibvs]

Why should I rotate faster when I am already happy with the speed and pace? My goal was to get reps in against block not to end the rally. He also doesn't give me passive block but gives it back with good pace.

My fh loop looks different than from drive.
For example there is forearm horizontal move when using a drive but its more of a constant acceleration. When using the fh loop its more of a "whip".

I am still experimenting the different gears between the drive and loop. So the transition becomes smoother.


Again if we just focus on the 3min video I am using it.
Which timing looks suspect? I guess I could hit the ball a bit earlier when I rotated a bit more? So instead of hitting when I have only rotated 10% I should aim for 30-50% atleast?

I don't think I saw any hip rotation from fzd. It was arm driven.

There are 2 things right now.

1. I practise too much the normal drive and too much the fh loop with the whip motion into the ball and too less the "mini" loops transition between these 2 strokes.

2. For each Ball I try to get that whip motion in even though I don't have the time. It's like a forced stroke. I am not experienced enough to tell if I can actually use the long stroke or not. During this I am also busy actively thinking about opening my arm. Lifting my arm and rotating my wrist so the bat angle opens up.

While doing all that the hip comes as 3rd depending on how fast the inc ball is and how long it takes me to swing in to the ball I use less hips or more hips.

I wonder how it looks like once the swing,opening wrist, and swingpath gets automated.

The backswing, not the forward swing. You were talking about how when the ball is fast you don't have time to rotate your hips. Again, if FZD is not using his hip then it should be going backward. If it's not, then that means he's using his hip. Try to keep your body (core, hip, leg, feet) as loose as possible and then swing only your arm forward, you'll have trouble standing still because everything besides your arm would be going backwards.

 

[Zezima]

The backswing, not the forward swing. You were talking about how when the ball is fast you don't have time to rotate your hips. Again, if FZD is not using his hip then it should be going backward. If it's not, then that means he's using his hip. Try to keep your body (core, hip, leg, feet) as loose as possible and then swing only your arm forward, you'll have trouble standing still because everything besides your arm would be going backwards.

I meant I am deliberatly trying to loop by opening my arm. It's like my mind is set on looping by opening the arm and whipping into the ball. Even though the block comes faster and I should just accept and backswing shorter.
That is what I was trying to say.

Obviously since I will be hitting the ball late I can't use extra hips aswell because how my arm is at position at about contact I have to slow down and use the incoming speed instead so I do liss with hips.

The problem right now feels like the arm. Too many mechanical aspect I have to think about. Its like first rotate back than lift the arm then open the wrist then start rotating hips while accelerate horizontally with the forearm then at contact accelerate horizontally AND upwards forwards. So if the incoming ball is any faster it messes up my sequence.

I also saw other reels where people get insane topspin speed without seeming to use the horizontal acceleration into the ball (like in timo boll video) looked like its just the tangential brushing but that just applies spin and is more brushing than hitting I would say. Either way not gonna confuse myself with that more

 

[dingyibvs]

I meant I am deliberatly trying to loop by opening my arm. It's like my mind is set on looping by opening the arm and whipping into the ball. Even though the block comes faster and I should just accept and backswing shorter.
That is what I was trying to say.

Obviously since I will be hitting the ball late I can't use extra hips aswell because how my arm is at position at about contact I have to slow down and use the incoming speed instead so I do liss with hips.

The problem right now feels like the arm. Too many mechanical aspect I have to think about. Its like first rotate back than lift the arm then open the wrist then start rotating hips while accelerate horizontally with the forearm then at contact accelerate horizontally AND upwards forwards. So if the incoming ball is any faster it messes up my sequence.

I also saw other reels where people get insane topspin speed without seeming to use the horizontal acceleration into the ball (like in timo boll video) looked like its just the tangential brushing but that just applies spin and is more brushing than hitting I would say. Either way not gonna confuse myself with that more

Well yes, there's a lot to think about, because there's a lot wrong with your form. You need to correct all of them if you want a better form. Did you think it was gonna be easy? Be prepared to go back and forth on all these aspects for at least 6 months as you progress on one aspect and regress on another, and I'm being generous here given your lack than ideal training conditions with little in person coaching.

There's a reason why pros all practice with the basic form and they do it all the time, even though in actual games they rarely use it for a variety of reasons whether it's a lack of time or that they're not in position. You need to have that as a foundation before you move on to everything else. When you do actually build that solid foundation, you'll find that it's actually quite easy to move on to dealing with the variations like shortening the stroke for a ball that's coming back faster. OTOH, until you're at the stage where you have not only built the foundation but have also figured out the variations, don't expect any improvement in your game. If anything, expect a worsening of your play first. If you don't get worse first when you're trying to overhaul your technique, you're probably not doing it right.

 

[Zezima]

Well yes, there's a lot to think about, because there's a lot wrong with your form. You need to correct all of them if you want a better form. Did you think it was gonna be easy? Be prepared to go back and forth on all these aspects for at least 6 months as you progress on one aspect and regress on another, and I'm being generous here given your lack than ideal training conditions with little in person coaching.

There's a reason why pros all practice with the basic form and they do it all the time, even though in actual games they rarely use it for a variety of reasons whether it's a lack of time or that they're not in position. You need to have that as a foundation before you move on to everything else. When you do actually build that solid foundation, you'll find that it's actually quite easy to move on to dealing with the variations like shortening the stroke for a ball that's coming back faster. OTOH, until you're at the stage where you have not only built the foundation but have also figured out the variations, don't expect any improvement in your game. If anything, expect a worsening of your play first. If you don't get worse first when you're trying to overhaul your technique, you're probably not doing it right.

Yes you described it well that by focusing on one part I was regressing on the other.

When I focused purely on thick contact I was not opening my arm for example.

When I was focusing on opening arm aswell it was hard to get the right height before accelerating forwards etc.

So I am exactly in that stage and would wish someone looking over my shoulder and correct me immediately if I start neglecting one part.

But for now that has to be me. It will be annoying but other than filming and checking my form ever 2-5min I cant do much.

Trainingsmatches on the other hand are super hard. Since I cant just say in the middle of the match whether I am using the right form or the old one. Actively thinking about the form is also difficult since I have no clue which stroke I will be using next even.

But so far I am still happy about my progress because I know how the good strokes feel. And in the end as long as the ball has the quality I was looking for I should be happy even if the stroke itself might not look what I was aiming for.

I will also start going into the gym again but I am worried I might get too exhausted for training and league games. I am playing TT a lot lately even though a bit suboptimal but compared to 2 months ago I got many multiball sessions so far with my brother more than past 8years combined.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yes you described it well that by focusing on one part I was regressing on the other.

When I focused purely on thick contact I was not opening my arm for example.

When I was focusing on opening arm aswell it was hard to get the right height before accelerating forwards etc.

So I am exactly in that stage and would wish someone looking over my shoulder and correct me immediately if I start neglecting one part.

But for now that has to be me. It will be annoying but other than filming and checking my form ever 2-5min I cant do much.

Trainingsmatches on the other hand are super hard. Since I cant just say in the middle of the match whether I am using the right form or the old one. Actively thinking about the form is also difficult since I have no clue which stroke I will be using next even.

But so far I am still happy about my progress because I know how the good strokes feel. And in the end as long as the ball has the quality I was looking for I should be happy even if the stroke itself might not look what I was aiming for.

I will also start going into the gym again but I am worried I might get too exhausted for training and league games. I am playing TT a lot lately even though a bit suboptimal but compared to 2 months ago I got many multiball sessions so far with my brother more than past 8years combined.

Believe me, I know what you're going through. I think @Takkyu_wa_inochi knows as well and despite your differences with him I believe he both laid out what needed to be done as well as set the appropriate expectations with his best intentions. He is right in stating that if you want to overhaul your technique, what you need is training and nothing else. He is also right that this is a long process and that'll even after improving your technique there's still a long road ahead before you see any changes to your results as there are many more steps to go.

The reason why you need to focus on training is that right now is that you really need to limit your variables. When you miss a ball you might be wondering is it because my swing is too big? Is it because my hip rotation was too much? Too little? Is it because I didn't get into the right position? Is it because my racket was too open? Too closed? Did I accelerate too late? Too early? Did I hit the ball too much to my side? Too much in front of me? Those are just some of the variables that can happen with YOU. Now introduce variables from your opponent, and the permutations are just endless. Even training against blocks introduces many more variables, training matches will introduce so many more on top of that, so much so that it's really useless. In fact, it'll only serve to disrupt your training as you inevitably fall back to old habits and reinforce those instead of your new technique. During this process you'll misdiagnose your problem a countless number of times until you finally arrive at the right answer, but only if you persevere through it.

So what you really need to start off is just with slow, simple multiball or a robot feeding you balls. Then you can experiment, hit a little more open, a little more closed, a little earlier, a little later, etc. Check your video to see how you looked. Once in a blue moon you might have done something that both feels really good and looks really good on video, then you try to replicate that. Gradually add complexities to it, some more speed, more spin, more variations in placement, and then some training against blocks. Test your limits, find out what's the fastest ball that allows you to execute the full stroke without shortening it? What's the fastest and most powerful way to execute the stroke consistently? What's the slowest and least powerful way to execute it consistently? What's the most open racket angle you can use and still get the ball on the table, etc, etc.

 

[NextLevel]

 

[Zezima]

Believe me, I know what you're going through. I think @Takkyu_wa_inochi knows as well and despite your differences with him I believe he both laid out what needed to be done as well as set the appropriate expectations with his best intentions. He is right in stating that if you want to overhaul your technique, what you need is training and nothing else. He is also right that this is a long process and that'll even after improving your technique there's still a long road ahead before you see any changes to your results as there are many more steps to go.

The reason why you need to focus on training is that right now is that you really need to limit your variables. When you miss a ball you might be wondering is it because my swing is too big? Is it because my hip rotation was too much? Too little? Is it because I didn't get into the right position? Is it because my racket was too open? Too closed? Did I accelerate too late? Too early? Did I hit the ball too much to my side? Too much in front of me? Those are just some of the variables that can happen with YOU. Now introduce variables from your opponent, and the permutations are just endless. Even training against blocks introduces many more variables, training matches will introduce so many more on top of that, so much so that it's really useless. In fact, it'll only serve to disrupt your training as you inevitably fall back to old habits and reinforce those instead of your new technique. During this process you'll misdiagnose your problem a countless number of times until you finally arrive at the right answer, but only if you persevere through it.

So what you really need to start off is just with slow, simple multiball or a robot feeding you balls. Then you can experiment, hit a little more open, a little more closed, a little earlier, a little later, etc. Check your video to see how you looked. Once in a blue moon you might have done something that both feels really good and looks really good on video, then you try to replicate that. Gradually add complexities to it, some more speed, more spin, more variations in placement, and then some training against blocks. Test your limits, find out what's the fastest ball that allows you to execute the full stroke without shortening it? What's the fastest and most powerful way to execute the stroke consistently? What's the slowest and least powerful way to execute it consistently? What's the most open racket angle you can use and still get the ball on the table, etc, etc.

I agree with everything you said. I still get the feeling you are trying to give me a hidden message.

Because right now I do train and experimented with my strokes and everything. Also never said I expect the changes to happen in a few weeks. I might get frustrated at it but thats part of the process and dont take me too serious on that regard. I just need motivation to keep going and staying focused.

All those questions are good questions to pbserve if I had a coach watching me and telling me those things. But most of these questions require me to watch the video in slowmo to really identify what went wrong. When playing myself I cant even tell if my racket angle was too closed or if I just didnt brush enough or my swingpath was too forwards. As you said too many variables. Even when watching in slowmo it's not very clear sometimes.

Either way whats important is that I stay on the track and give my best to work on it and hopefully when I look back 1-2 years from now on and watch these videos here I can clearly see that I improved.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree with everything you said. I still get the feeling you are trying to give me a hidden message.

Because right now I do train and experimented with my strokes and everything. Also never said I expect the changes to happen in a few weeks. I might get frustrated at it but thats part of the process and dont take me too serious on that regard. I just need motivation to keep going and staying focused.

All those questions are good questions to pbserve if I had a coach watching me and telling me those things. But most of these questions require me to watch the video in slowmo to really identify what went wrong. When playing myself I cant even tell if my racket angle was too closed or if I just didnt brush enough or my swingpath was too forwards. As you said too many variables. Even when watching in slowmo it's not very clear sometimes.

Either way whats important is that I stay on the track and give my best to work on it and hopefully when I look back 1-2 years from now on and watch these videos here I can clearly see that I improved.

The biggest thing IMHO that some are saying that is lost in translation is that you are trying to get good way too fast and in doing so trying to hit the ball hard before it is clear that you have mastered how you want to hit the ball. You might get somewhere good because you are already a decent player, but what you are doing requires far more many reps at a much lower power level to ingrain the pattern and get ir right and then accelerate the sequence gradually but with the confidence that it can be sustained at any power level. Right now, I am confident there will be significant differences between when you are ready to hit the ball with decent poiwer and when you are late to the ball, and that will largely be because your preparation for both kinds of balls is not the same because you don't practice at a full range of speeds using similar technique.

The good thing is that you have the right attitude to pushing through it. But I suspect that a lot of this will need to be revisited more seriously in the offseason next year with hopefully better conditions for you. What you re doing now is better than nothing for sure.

 

[dingyibvs]

I agree with everything you said. I still get the feeling you are trying to give me a hidden message.

Because right now I do train and experimented with my strokes and everything. Also never said I expect the changes to happen in a few weeks. I might get frustrated at it but thats part of the process and dont take me too serious on that regard. I just need motivation to keep going and staying focused.

All those questions are good questions to pbserve if I had a coach watching me and telling me those things. But most of these questions require me to watch the video in slowmo to really identify what went wrong. When playing myself I cant even tell if my racket angle was too closed or if I just didnt brush enough or my swingpath was too forwards. As you said too many variables. Even when watching in slowmo it's not very clear sometimes.

Either way whats important is that I stay on the track and give my best to work on it and hopefully when I look back 1-2 years from now on and watch these videos here I can clearly see that I improved.

No hidden message really. I think the overall message is just to go back to the basics, the very basics. A lot of shadow training when you're not at the club, and when you're there start with the absolute basic shots like the FH drive or loops against the slowest, least spinny topspins you'd feed to a beginner just learning the loop. These things allow you to be very, very mindful of every detail during and in between every shot, and you need to be that mindful. For example, when you're warming up with FH drives you need to make sure you feel your hip driving and aiming the shot, your arm is sufficiently relaxed, and your stance is correct with every single shot. Like what Seth Pech says, don't think of it as improving a technique, think of it as learning a new technique.

Right now, you need to be aware of what every part of your body is doing with every shot, but you won't actually see improvements until you have no idea what your body is doing on any shot (unless you force yourself to pay attention to it) because you just don't have to think about any of it anymore. Just make sure you learn it before you forget it! It's tough, and I agree that simply watching in slowmo doesn't help much, but I think one thing does help a lot if you've got the time to learn it. I use a video editing software (I use DaVinci) sometimes to make slowmo videos of myself shot from the same angle as a pro (say FZD) and then place them side-by-side in the same video. This way I can analyze frame-by-frame what the difference between our motion is.

 

[Zezima]

The biggest thing IMHO that some are saying that is lost in translation is that you are trying to get good way too fast and in doing so trying to hit the ball hard before it is clear that you have mastered how you want to hit the ball. You might get somewhere good because you are already a decent player, but what you are doing requires far more many reps at a much lower power level to ingrain the pattern and get ir right and then accelerate the sequence gradually but with the confidence that it can be sustained at any power level. Right now, I am confident there will be significant differences between when you are ready to hit the ball with decent poiwer and when you are late to the ball, and that will largely be because your preparation for both kinds of balls is not the same because you don't practice at a full range of speeds using similar technique.

The good thing is that you have the right attitude to pushing through it. But I suspect that a lot of this will need to be revisited more seriously in the offseason next year with hopefully better conditions for you. What you re doing now is better than nothing for sure.

Well the goal was to get away from this passive slow brush loop style I was doing prior.

There is a term called differential or something that basically says to do the other extreme.

I am also unsure yet if I need to topspin like timo boll does in that video I posted where he whips the forearm horizontally into the ball first. Because I saw other good players generating enough power just by rotating into the ball with the hips without the additional forearm whip into the ball. I personally realized I need less hips if I use the whip power horizontally into the ball with the forearm.

Also I want to work on this 5 different speed fh topspin the one from jozes video. I think that is also what you mean right?

 

[NextLevel]

Well the goal was to get away from this passive slow brush loop style I was doing prior.

There is a term called differential or something that basically says to do the other extreme.

I am also unsure yet if I need to topspin like timo boll does in that video I posted where he whips the forearm horizontally into the ball first. Because I saw other good players generating enough power just by rotating into the ball with the hips without the additional forearm whip into the ball. I personally realized I need less hips if I use the whip power horizontally into the ball with the forearm.

Also I want to work on this 5 different speed fh topspin the one from jozes video. I think that is also what you mean right?

Well there is a method to your madness. Let's hope it works. Because training in one range of speed/spin is not the way to build a change that can endure in all situations.

 

[dingyibvs]

Well the goal was to get away from this passive slow brush loop style I was doing prior.

There is a term called differential or something that basically says to do the other extreme.

I am also unsure yet if I need to topspin like timo boll does in that video I posted where he whips the forearm horizontally into the ball first. Because I saw other good players generating enough power just by rotating into the ball with the hips without the additional forearm whip into the ball. I personally realized I need less hips if I use the whip power horizontally into the ball with the forearm.

Also I want to work on this 5 different speed fh topspin the one from jozes video. I think that is also what you mean right?

Brush loops are always slow, but slow loops are not always brush loops. You can go slow with a more hitting motion as well. In fact, when I have coaching sessions that's all my coach would allow me to do, slow regular loops. Nothing more than maybe 40% of my power, and no brush loops unless I'm practicing something else like relooping after a brush loop. If I go any faster he tells me to slow down.

If you're gonna practice against blocks, this is what I'd recommend you try to accomplish first. One of its biggest advantages is actually the ball coming back. It'll be slower, and since it's easier for your partner to block it'll also be more consistent and you'll get more reps. You'll have time to think about your stroke, which again is something you need to do right now.

Sometimes I practice with guys well below 1000 and I take it even further, use the absolute minimum power but make sure I pay attention to how every muscle is used. They'll usually still block it all over the place so I use it as a footwork practice as well, making sure I move in position for every shot and that I maintain my form as much as possible while moving.

 

[blahness]

Why should I rotate faster when I am already happy with the speed and pace? My goal was to get reps in against block not to end the rally. He also doesn't give me passive block but gives it back with good pace.

My fh loop looks different than from drive.
For example there is forearm horizontal move when using a drive but its more of a constant acceleration. When using the fh loop its more of a "whip".

I am still experimenting the different gears between the drive and loop. So the transition becomes smoother.


Again if we just focus on the 3min video I am using it.
Which timing looks suspect? I guess I could hit the ball a bit earlier when I rotated a bit more? So instead of hitting when I have only rotated 10% I should aim for 30-50% atleast?

I don't think I saw any hip rotation from fzd. It was arm driven.

There are 2 things right now.

1. I practise too much the normal drive and too much the fh loop with the whip motion into the ball and too less the "mini" loops transition between these 2 strokes.

2. For each Ball I try to get that whip motion in even though I don't have the time. It's like a forced stroke. I am not experienced enough to tell if I can actually use the long stroke or not. During this I am also busy actively thinking about opening my arm. Lifting my arm and rotating my wrist so the bat angle opens up.

While doing all that the hip comes as 3rd depending on how fast the inc ball is and how long it takes me to swing in to the ball I use less hips or more hips.

I wonder how it looks like once the swing,opening wrist, and swingpath gets automated.

Timing as in not how early or late you contacted the ball, but when your lower body activates vs the upper body and then the arm.

The correct activation sequence/timing is lower body first, then shortly after the upper body activates, then the arm, then the wrist+fingers. Not together or delayed too much.

It was not about the amount of body rotation - that is dependent on the incoming ball - slower balls rotate more, faster balls rotate less.