Does the D05 needs boosting

[ajtatosmano2]

Better really depends on who is using the rubber and what exactly they want from it. If you are talking to pro players who boost D05 I can't see how their experience would help a (relatively speaking) absolute novice

A worn out D05 got 'grippier' from boosting?
Doesn't 'grip' come from the topsheet, from the rubber.
Boosting a sponge should have no impact on grip.

I don't think you're giving good advice to someone about how to best use a $100 rubber that is really intended for professionals and advanced players.

I just wanted to share anecdotes, not giving advice. The advice I gave was "you probably don't need boosting", as I have no idea about his level.
Softening of the sponge makes the ball sink into it easier. Also, the oil I think creeps into the tosheet a little. It gets grippier in the lower/medium gears. I boost/reboost every rubber around their end of life and it definitely helps with the grip.

 

[ber]

I get why some players would say this. It is a relatively hard sponge and if you don't generate the racket speed required to really get into that sponge then it's gonna feel dead vs (for example) T19 or Rakza 7.

It doesn't need boosting to show it's true character.
However, if you don't have the power or technique to really use the rubber then boosting will help you by making it easier to get speed and spin from a D05.
However, booster will obviously alter the rubbers characteristics, so you no longer have the rubbers true characteristics. Makes sense?

To really get to the rubbers true characteristics you need to be a very good player.
Below a certain level this rubber is just a waste of money.

If you have to ask these questions then honestly, D05 is not the rubber for you.
Try the Glayzer, half the price, same long lasting topsheet, more performance for anyone under 2000 rating, different, and softer, sponge.
And absolutely no booster needed 😉

Glayzer or G09C? is it very slow tho? some says even rakza z or 7 is faster than it. I'm currently using a Nittaku G1 so let's put the speed base there

 

[NetProphet]

In a very simple way, no. Spin is created from force, not friction in the classic sense. You don't need to increase the topsheet's "friction" to get more grip, you can simply make it softer and more willing to snap back, or maybe even change its thermal properties, with softer compounds typically wanting lower temperatures although don't quote me on that.

Sponges which are more elastic can impart higher offset forces about the ball's CG which will provide spin and speed, and sponges which are more hysteretic can apply greater spin reversal and greater torque about the ball's CG.

The topsheet provides the relatively high coefficient of friction from the compound and favorable load sensitivity characteristics due to the high contact area, but the component that's really allowing spin to be made is the inverse pimple + sponge structure. This is also why stiff, short pips with high grip can still provide quite high spin as long as they have a thick, elastic sponge, of course ultimately not as much as an inverse topsheet.

It depends on the stroke itself what component is how biased, with thicker impacts caring more about the sponge, while very thin impacts care more about the topsheet friction characteristics, although in practice it's always a mix of both except perhaps in some very thinly contacted short serves where I feel like it's probably mostly topsheet.

He said grip increased from boosting.
A rubbers grip is definitely a function of the top sheet.
There are other words that include the impact of the sponge also and this of course impacts the spin achieved but grip, this is definitely talking about the rubber and not the sponge.

 

[NetProphet]

Glayzer or G09C? is it very slow tho? some says even rakza z or 7 is faster than it. I'm currently using a Nittaku G1 so let's put the speed base there

Glayzer.
The Glayzer 09c had the D09c top sheet.
It's slow on a slow blade and definitely benefits from a faster blade.
I don't know your blade, Palio Energy 03 I've actually never heard of.

 

[NetProphet]

I just wanted to share anecdotes, not giving advice. The advice I gave was "you probably don't need boosting", as I have no idea about his level.
Softening of the sponge makes the ball sink into it easier. Also, the oil I think creeps into the tosheet a little. It gets grippier in the lower/medium gears. I boost/reboost every rubber around their end of life and it definitely helps with the grip.

Not entirely accurate.
The advice you gave was to say "you probably don't need it " after saying that D05 plays better with booster.

Why would you tell someone that doing one thing can make something 'better', and the tell them to not do the thing that makes it better??!!

That is what made no sense to me.

You then went on to say that you had boosted an old D05 and made it grippier.
I thought this was an incorrect statement.
Boosting makes the sponge softer and then it's easier to get spin with it.
But it doesn't do anything to revive the rubber top sheet so it has more grip.
I know I'm being pedantic here but I think the definitions and delineations are import for someone genuinely asking about this stuff from new.

Anyway, no offense intended, I just found your first post to be ambiguous.

 

[ber]

Glayzer.
The Glayzer 09c had the D09c top sheet.
It's slow on a slow blade and definitely benefits from a faster blade.
I don't know your blade, Palio Energy 03 I've actually never heard of.

Going to buy a HL5 soon so yeah, i reckon the Palio energy 03 is an asian market exclusive or smth like that

 

[DBsystem78]

If you dont have much money i recommend a DHS 301T blade its the baby sister of the HL5 just slightly slower

Fast blade and very good feeling / Dwell time

 

[ber]

If you dont have much money i recommend a DHS 301T blade its the baby sister of the HL5 just slightly slower

Fast blade and very good feeling / Dwell time

It almost cost the same here, $17 difference and it doesn't really matter. So I would prefer the HL5 for performance and also there is a pic of ma long 😊

 

[Archosaurus]

He said grip increased from boosting.
A rubbers grip is definitely a function of the top sheet.
There are other words that include the impact of the sponge also and this of course impacts the spin achieved but grip, this is definitely talking about the rubber and not the sponge.

Okay, you know better then.

 

[NetProphet]

Okay, you know better then.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe not...
Maybe you're being sarcastic, maybe not.
Kidding, I get it that you are definitely being sarcastic.

But you've gone on the wrong tangent here in trying to explain rubber/sponge physics to me with (admittedly beautiful) words like hysteretic.

I think you haven't seen that we've basically said the same thing, I already said that boosting makes the rubber easier to generate spin with, because of softer sponge.
I just believe that you have confused and conflated some of the terms.

My point was to clarify for the OP that the rubber top sheet characteristics don't change because of boosting the sponge.
I am referring to the posters use of the word grip, and how this may be interpreted by a newbie asking about such things.

But your post refers several times to spin.
The key word was Grip.

Boosting a worn out D05 will not make the top sheet grippier. It allows increased rubber surface area contact with the ball because of boosting/softening the underlying sponge.
But it's not magically rejuvenating the top sheet. It is changing the 'rubber' from what it previously was. So, if you liked playing with the D05 and it's hardness, and you wore out the top sheet, this isn't going to magically fix it for you. It's just gonna give you a softer sponged rubber that still has a worn out top sheet, that won't play like your original D05 did.

Beyond sending an overly long scientific explanation to me you have offered to the OP categorically that:
No ITTF stamped rubber with a sponge over 2mm is "dead" and that D05 sponge is already soft enough.

So there are no instances possible where anyone anywhere might find that either of these things are true.....really?

I know several players who find D05 too hard and I know even more who find it dead when playing it on non carbon blades.

Maybe pay more attention to your own advice given and we can suspend the physics lecture for another time eh

 

[Archosaurus]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe not...
Maybe you're being sarcastic, maybe not.
Kidding, I get it that you are definitely being sarcastic.

But you've gone on the wrong tangent here in trying to explain rubber/sponge physics to me with (admittedly beautiful) words like hysteretic.

I think you haven't seen that we've basically said the same thing, I already said that boosting makes the rubber easier to generate spin with, because of softer sponge.
I just believe that you have confused and conflated some of the terms.

My point was to clarify for the OP that the rubber top sheet characteristics don't change because of boosting the sponge.
I am referring to the posters use of the word grip, and how this may be interpreted by a newbie asking about such things.

But your post refers several times to spin.
The key word was Grip.

Boosting a worn out D05 will not make the top sheet grippier. It allows increased rubber surface area contact with the ball because of boosting/softening the underlying sponge.
But it's not magically rejuvenating the top sheet. It is changing the 'rubber' from what it previously was. So, if you liked playing with the D05 and it's hardness, and you wore out the top sheet, this isn't going to magically fix it for you. It's just gonna give you a softer sponge rubber, still with a worn out top sheet, that won't play like your original D05 did.

Beyond sending an overly long scientific explanation to me you have offered to the OP categorically that:
No ITTF stamped rubber with a sponge over 2mm is "dead" and that D05 sponge is already soft enough.

So there are no instances possible where anyone anywhere might find that either of these things are true.....really?

I know several players who find D05 too hard and I know even more who find it dead when playing it on non carbon blades.

Maybe pay more attention to your own advice given and we can suspend the physics lecture for another time eh

Nothing I've said is particularly untrue. Just because some people find it too hard for them or find it too slow for them doesn't mean it's not soft enough to use and doesn't mean it's too slow to use. Plenty of people find rubbers like H3 and B2 too hard and slow as well. Pay attention to the title: "needs".

Analyzing the friction coefficient of a surface without respect to real-world load sensitivity and interaction with the other medium is completely useless and pedantic. You will get more grip if you boost a sponge even with a moderately worn topsheet.

You will get more topsheet grip period just from the booster oil slightly softening it although that has its own consequences like increased spin sensitivity and changed throw angle although I don't have data to back up exactly how much.

Will it give you more topsheet friction coefficient if you ripped off a micron thick layer and tested its static friction? Probably not, so you're right there. But that's not what we're talking about at all.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Not entirely accurate.
The advice you gave was to say "you probably don't need it " after saying that D05 plays better with booster.

Why would you tell someone that doing one thing can make something 'better', and the tell them to not do the thing that makes it better??!!

That is what made no sense to me.

You then went on to say that you had boosted an old D05 and made it grippier.
I thought this was an incorrect statement.
Boosting makes the sponge softer and then it's easier to get spin with it.
But it doesn't do anything to revive the rubber top sheet so it has more grip.
I know I'm being pedantic here but I think the definitions and delineations are import for someone genuinely asking about this stuff from new.

Anyway, no offense intended, I just found your first post to be ambiguous.

I admit I wasn't very clear what I meant, no offense taken.