FZD is not using Infinity VPS?!

[ducksick]

Remember, I've started a thread by asking Dan to ask a permission from ITTF to lists down
probably TOP 50 players blades & rubbers? I know it is impossible task but you never try,
how on earth is not possible? And now everyone's keep arguing bout the blades, rubbers etc...
Bit silly right? I don't see any problems at all from others sports as well? Like Tennis, we know
which rackets, model that top players currently using. Why not in TT? Due to sponsorship rights?

ITTF shall move forward and transparent, at least we as a TT fans, interested to know more
about players equipments and other info as well.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Its a fact that FZD is not using Stiga rubbers, but Stiga claims he is using Stiga rubbers
So some one from Stiga is telling a lie as FZD is using T05 on backhand

Of course he is not using Stiga rubbers. None of the Chinese team guys who use Stiga rackets use Stiga rubbers. Stiga rubbers are really not as good as Tenergy or H3 or Skyline 3. They just aren't.

But FZD is not using Tenergy that has been made to look like Calibra. It is Tenergy.

However, he has no reason to say he is using a blade by Stiga that is all wood while actually using a Butterfly Viscaria with a Stiga handle.

Can you find anywhere where FZD says he is using Stiga rubbers? But he says he is using an all wood Stiga blade.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Remember, I've started a thread by asking Dan to ask a permission from ITTF to lists down
probably TOP 50 players blades & rubbers? I know it is impossible task but you never try,
how on earth is not possible? And now everyone's keep arguing bout the blades, rubbers etc...
Bit silly right? I don't see any problems at all from others sports as well? Like Tennis, we know
which rackets, model that top players currently using. Why not in TT? Due to sponsorship rights?

ITTF shall move forward and transparent, at least we as a TT fans, interested to know more
about players equipments and other info as well.

You can email ITTF yourself, why need to go through through Dan?

i'm not sure how much ITTF knows, its like emailing Fifa and asking them about the world top 50 players shoe

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Of course he is not using Stiga rubbers. None of the Chinese team guys who use Stiga rackets use Stiga rubbers. Stiga rubbers are really not as good as Tenergy or H3 or Skyline 3. They just aren't.

But FZD is not using Tenergy that has been made to look like Calibra. It is Tenergy.

However, he has no reason to say he is using a blade by Stiga that is all wood while actually using a Butterfly Viscaria with a Stiga handle.

Can you find anywhere where FZD says he is using Stiga rubbers? But he says he is using an all wood Stiga blade.

I don't think he said it, but Stiga said it
Maybe soon we will have a FZD video (like Xu Xin) that claims he is using Stiga rubbers

 

[KM1976]

How does it matters which blade/rubber he uses. What's important is that what he does with it.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I don't think he said it, but Stiga said it
Maybe soon we will have a FZD video (like Xu Xin) that claims he is using Stiga rubbers

See, Xu Xin is a great example. Everyone knows he does not use Stiga rubbers. Nobody thinks he does. He does the adds that they ask him to. Usually he uses a Stiga blade. But when he stopped using the Rosewood and switched to the Intensity, there was a period in there where he was using a Yasaka blade. He did not care. He did not hide it. He used the Ma Lin Extra, perhaps from Ma Lin himself, for a few tournaments and then started using a Stiga blade that is supposed to be like a higher end version of a Ma Lin Extra.

Again, we all know why Wang Liqin was using a Stiga Clipper with a DHS handle. That is not a secret. If one of these guys was using a DHS blade, or seeming to, and it was actually a blade from a different company and they had used the blade before having a DHS blade made in their name, it might be different. But why would FZD go through all that trouble to get sponsored by Stiga only to play with a Butterfly blade when he could just go to Butterfly?????? I guarantee they would love to make a blade with Fan's name on it to make more money. Does anyone think that Butterfly would refuse FZD sponsorship?

When Liu Shiwen was using an Innerforce blade, they made a blade with her name on it that is basically the exact same blade. You really think Butterfly would not jump at the chance to do that with FZD? Look how many ZJK blades they have. If FZD was asking Butterfly to make a Viscaria with a Stiga handle they would say, why don't you just let us make you a blade. If FZD was asking Stiga to take a Butterfly Viscaria and put a Stiga handle on it, they would not want to do that either.

Why would DHS: For one of the greatest players ever and for National Pride.

But, I really think this comment is on target:

How does it matters which blade/rubber he uses. What's important is that what he does with it.

That is exactly right. Thank you KM1976.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

How does it matters which blade/rubber he uses. What's important is that what he does with it.

Of course it doesn't matter.
But I think what the above discussion is about is more around business ethics and morals.

Stiga is lying and it is fine, they can go unpunished and customers will get tricked and still buy the stuff that FZD is supposely using.
Well, that is the only reason why i'm part of the discussion.
I don't care what FZD uses, but business model and ethic is very important.

So if Stiga doesn't go and make XX videos and saying xyz and then XX goes and does the oppersite, then great.
But if Stiga want to claim something, and it is not true, then maybe its worth a discussion.

So, subject is not FZD, its Stiga.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

See, Xu Xin is a great example. Everyone knows he does not use Stiga rubbers. Nobody thinks he does. He does the adds that they ask him to. Usually he uses a Stiga blade. But when he stopped using the Rosewood and switched to the Intensity, there was a period in there where he was using a Yasaka blade. He did not care. He did not hide it. He used the Ma Lin Extra, perhaps from Ma Lin himself, for a few tournaments and then started using a Stiga blade that is supposed to be like a higher end version of a Ma Lin Extra.

Again, we all know why Wang Liqin was using a Stiga Clipper with a DHS handle. That is not a secret. If one of these guys was using a DHS blade, or seeming to, and it was actually a blade from a different company and they had used the blade before having a DHS blade made in their name, it might be different. But why would FZD go through all that trouble to get sponsored by Stiga only to play with a Butterfly blade when he could just go to Butterfly?????? I guarantee they would love to make a blade with Fan's name on it to make more money. Does anyone think that Butterfly would refuse FZD sponsorship?

When Liu Shiwen was using an Innerforce blade, they made a blade with her name on it that is basically the exact same blade. You really think Butterfly would not jump at the chance to do that with FZD? Look how many ZJK blades they have. If FZD was asking Butterfly to make a Viscaria with a Stiga handle they would say, why don't you just let us make you a blade. If FZD was asking Stiga to take a Butterfly Viscaria and put a Stiga handle on it, they would not want to do that either.

Why would DHS: For one of the greatest players ever and for National Pride.

But, I really think this comment is on target:



That is exactly right. Thank you KM1976.

Read my comment above.
you know, I know, does not equal everybody know.
any ways, I don't care what they use, it got nothing to do with me.
But if someone is lying to someone, then as a knowledgable guy about table tennis, I think I should say something

 

[ttmonster]

Cosying up to the coach perhaps by getting sponsored by Stiga ? Its very difficult to tell Carl, I somehow sense there are some subtle politics and a good amount of money involved too .. . but end of the day , it does not matter, they would be as great if they slap a couple of mark Vs on a regular blade and practice with it for a couple of hours max.

See, Xu Xin is a great example. Everyone knows he does not use Stiga rubbers. Nobody thinks he does. He does the adds that they ask him to. Usually he uses a Stiga blade. But when he stopped using the Rosewood and switched to the Intensity, there was a period in there where he was using a Yasaka blade. He did not care. He did not hide it. He used the Ma Lin Extra, perhaps from Ma Lin himself, for a few tournaments and then started using a Stiga blade that is supposed to be like a higher end version of a Ma Lin Extra.

Again, we all know why Wang Liqin was using a Stiga Clipper with a DHS handle. That is not a secret. If one of these guys was using a DHS blade, or seeming to, and it was actually a blade from a different company and they had used the blade before having a DHS blade made in their name, it might be different. But why would FZD go through all that trouble to get sponsored by Stiga only to play with a Butterfly blade when he could just go to Butterfly?????? I guarantee they would love to make a blade with Fan's name on it to make more money. Does anyone think that Butterfly would refuse FZD sponsorship?

When Liu Shiwen was using an Innerforce blade, they made a blade with her name on it that is basically the exact same blade. You really think Butterfly would not jump at the chance to do that with FZD? Look how many ZJK blades they have. If FZD was asking Butterfly to make a Viscaria with a Stiga handle they would say, why don't you just let us make you a blade. If FZD was asking Stiga to take a Butterfly Viscaria and put a Stiga handle on it, they would not want to do that either.

Why would DHS: For one of the greatest players ever and for National Pride.

But, I really think this comment is on target:



That is exactly right. Thank you KM1976.

 

[Tinykin]

Hey Tony, I don't know why you are getting so extreme calling FZD and Stiga liars. Foremost is that FZD is a well known personality which makes him a hot prospect to advertisers.
Do you think that Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Messi, and all those others use the exact product that they advertise that they do? Come on!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hey Tony, I don't know why you are getting so extreme calling FZD and Stiga liars. Foremost is that FZD is a well known personality which makes him a hot prospect to advertisers.
Do you think that Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Messi, and all those others use the exact product that they advertise that they do? Come on!

I'm not extreme because of Stiga or FZD
I'm extreme at Carl, not sure what he is on about. He said who really cares in very big read writing that got my attention. I guess he is fine with what ever false advertising from stiga, and said every body knows about FZD or XX not using Stiga or what ever the fuss above was actually about - don't really know and didn't read everything he typed. I recall something about Butterfly too.... and blades this or that.
Any ways, i think it is just fair to state the truth, as not every body knows whats going on - or atleast that is my opnion that not every one in the tt world knows this truth.

BTW, endorsing a product and "used by" professionals, is 2 different things imo.
Many celebrity gets on advertisements to endorse products. I assume this is your comparison.

Any ways, i'm not really interested to waste my time answering in this thread any more.
I don't really care, and no ideal why Carl and you are reacting like i'm making a fuss.
Truth is truth, and no excuse can make it sound like it is normal.

Fact (according to Stiga),
FZD is using
Blade: Infinity VPS V (with Diamond Touch)
Rubbers: Calibra Tour M

XX is using:
Blade: Intensity NCT
Rubber (BH): Calibra LT

Truth, not sure hey?

 

[KAB71]

All the top players use the equipment they want and feel most comfortable using regardless of sponsorship deals, competition at elite level can be decided by the tiniest of margins so they must use what feels right for them and gives them that 'edge'. This is why irrespective of endorsement deals the vast majority of top players (and I would suspect pretty much all of the top 10 men in the world use Tenergy and or a Butterfly Arylate blade be it Viscaria, TB Spirit, Maze or ZJK) Ma Long used a TB Spirit for a long time and ZJK has used a Viscaria. It's just a shame Butterfly feel the need to charge the rest of us mere mortals such princely sums for these products.

 

[ducksick]

You can email ITTF yourself, why need to go through through Dan?

i'm not sure how much ITTF knows, its like emailing Fifa and asking them about the world top 50 players shoe

Excuse me, a proposal because of the influences of TTD now and not me alone. As you said, (statement above),
something you knows and doesn't mean everybody, right. That's the reason WHY we need to ask ITTF a favour to publish, big deal?

Btw, no need to email FIFA at all. The boots wears by footballers,models and design has been published thru internet.
Reason... MARKETING. And just ITTF and others brands still dreaming that let us guessing about which blades and rubbers
that players using right now.

 

[ducksick]

I'm not extreme because of Stiga or FZD
I'm extreme at Carl, not sure what he is on about. He said who really cares in very big read writing that got my attention. I guess he is fine with what ever false advertising from stiga, and said every body knows about FZD or XX not using Stiga or what ever the fuss above was actually about - don't really know and didn't read everything he typed. I recall something about Butterfly too.... and blades this or that.
Any ways, i think it is just fair to state the truth, as not every body knows whats going on - or atleast that is my opnion that not every one in the tt world knows this truth.

BTW, endorsing a product and "used by" professionals, is 2 different things imo.
Many celebrity gets on advertisements to endorse products. I assume this is your comparison.

Any ways, i'm not really interested to waste my time answering in this thread any more.
I don't really care, and no ideal why Carl and you are reacting like i'm making a fuss.
Truth is truth, and no excuse can make it sound like it is normal.

Fact (according to Stiga),
FZD is using
Blade: Infinity VPS V (with Diamond Touch)
Rubbers: Calibra Tour M

XX is using:
Blade: Intensity NCT
Rubber (BH): Calibra LT

Truth, not sure hey?

You see the consequences? Arguing? What's the point? Blame Stiga?Bty etc? or players?
No point to continue unless as what I suggests, an official reports from ITTF about players equipments.
Best with picture.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'm not extreme because of Stiga or FZD
I'm extreme at Carl, not sure what he is on about. He said who really cares in very big read writing that got my attention. I guess he is fine with what ever false advertising from stiga, and said every body knows about FZD or XX not using Stiga or what ever the fuss above was actually about - don't really know and didn't read everything he typed. I recall something about Butterfly too.... and blades this or that.
Any ways, i think it is just fair to state the truth, as not every body knows whats going on - or atleast that is my opnion that not every one in the tt world knows this truth.

BTW, endorsing a product and "used by" professionals, is 2 different things imo.
Many celebrity gets on advertisements to endorse products. I assume this is your comparison.

Any ways, i'm not really interested to waste my time answering in this thread any more.
I don't really care, and no ideal why Carl and you are reacting like i'm making a fuss.
Truth is truth, and no excuse can make it sound like it is normal.

Fact (according to Stiga),
FZD is using
Blade: Infinity VPS V (with Diamond Touch)
Rubbers: Calibra Tour M

XX is using:
Blade: Intensity NCT
Rubber (BH): Calibra LT

Truth, not sure hey?

First off, the start of this discussion was about someone trying to present that FZD is not using the blade he says he is. I SEE NO PROOF OF THAT and that is a bold statement to make, especially if it is wrong. I don't know if he is using the Infinity or not. I personally don't really think it matters. But, the people who are coming up with some far fetched idea that he is using a Butterfly blade with a Stiga handle absolutely makes no sense because he really could just get a Butterfly sponsorship.

As far as STIGA LYING, I think you are right about that. Stiga has been lying about what any CNT player who has been sponsored by them uses for rubbers for years. But it does not seem to me that it is the CNT team player who is lying. It is Stiga. Okay, Xu Xin did do that video that presented that he uses those rubbers which he does not use. But I have never heard him say that he uses anything other than DHS rubber on Forehand and Tenergy on Backhand. If I heard him say he was using Calibra and saw that he was not, I would think there was more wrong there. But Stiga wants to say Xu Xin uses Calibra when he is not, and that is really their unethical problem. So I think it is okay to say that Stiga is sort of lame on this issue.

Now, I know a lower level sponsored player who was sponsored by Stiga and asked Stiga, "can I just use your blades and not your rubbers because your rubbers are not good enough, I want to use TENERGY because I can't compete with guys using Tenergy when I am playing with Calibra!" And Stiga said "NO!!!" But they do not say no to Xu Xin or FZD. Those guys are too big. And I think that is a problem. By the way, my friend who asked that is now sponsored by Butterfly instead.

But again, the big red writing that says:

First of all who really cares.

Was about the far fetched idea that FZD was using a Butterfly blade and disguising it as a Stiga Blade. Again, I say to this, WHY WOULDN'T HE JUST GET SPONSORSHIP FROM BUTTERFLY if he wanted to use a Butterfly blade. He is already using Butterfly rubber. Why wouldn't he just do it.

By the way, doesn't Butterfly say that ZJK uses Tenergy on both sides? I think it is stupid but it is standard. So I think you are making a fine point about the fact that companies like Stiga and Butterfly may lie about what setup their sponsored players use when the sponsored players don't use the equipment the company is hoping to sell with their names. But what does that have to do with the claims that FZD is using a Viscaria with a Stiga handle? I think you must have misread something into my post that was not part of what I was saying.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I don't really care, and no ideal why Carl and you are reacting like i'm making a fuss.

By the way, as far as I see it, you reacted to something that I was not saying. I don't see that I am making a fuss. But perhaps you may have made a fuss reading something into what I said that actually was not part of what I wrote.

 

[Anders]

You can email ITTF yourself, why need to go through through Dan?

i'm not sure how much ITTF knows, its like emailing Fifa and asking them about the world top 50 players shoe

It's really funny about them shoes, because many players gets the sole changed to fit sponsor demands.. Like the player or the club might be sponsored by Umbro or Nike but the player like Adidas more so they use Adidas shoes that looks like Umbro or some other brand

Have actually seen it in the top division here, and it made a big fuzz

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

don't really know and didn't read everything he typed. I recall something about Butterfly too.... and blades this or that.

By the way, from this post, it seems you had not read the whole thread or my whole post. That you may have just read "who really cares" quote and thought I was talking about companies lying about what rubbers or equipment people are using or something.

My comment was specifically about the thread which is about someone presenting the idea that FZD is using a Viscaria with a Stiga Infinity handle. There is nothing in this thread, until your comment, that is on the subject of rubbers or companies lying. Rubbers was not the subject of the thread. Companies lying about what sponsored players was not the topic of this thread. Unethical behavior from a player or a TT company because of lying about the equipment a player uses was not the topic of the thread.

The topic of the thread was someone was presenting what they felt was proof that FZD was using a Butterfly Viscaria with a Stiga Infinity handle rather than a Stiga Infinity. Read the thread from the beginning.

To me the photos look like an all wood blade. To some other people the photos somehow look like they are specifically a Viscaria with a Stiga handle. I have no idea how someone could think they can tell the model of a blade from a photo to that level of preciseness. A Viscaria photographed from the stands of a stadium 50-100 yards away with a high powered zoom can not be distinguished by the layers of wood in the blade face from a Timo Boll ALC or a Schlager carbon for that matter. But, to me, the photographs that are shown seem to have a thick brown wooden ply and so it looks to me like it is probably an all wood blade that has no carbon. However, from a photograph that is taken from so far away with a high powered zoom, you really can not be sure of anything as accurate as what plies are in the face of the blade. High powered zooms are known to distort things like thickness, and color. So the photos used to make the case that FZD is using a Viscaria really don't show anything but FZD with a blade in his hand that has a Stiga Infinity handle.

Why am I still talking about blades: because the thread was about FZD's BLADE. It was not about the very valid subject that you switched it too.

So if you want to talk about the ethics of a company like Stiga lying about what rubbers their sponsored players are using, I am with you. Repeat: I agree with you. But if you want to switch the subject in the middle of the thread from that FZD playing with one blade or another, to a completely different subject about the companies lying, and say what you said without even having read most of the thread OR MY POST, I would say, you should just read instead of arguing before you read. Nobody was arguing about the ethics of the companies lying about what the players are using.

And you seemed very much to be calling me out for something I did not say.

 

[ttmonster]

I agree with you Carl, I had a hard time figuring out why Tony was getting offended. Is it a some misunderstanding , Tony what is it that upset you so much ? I am still not sure. I just figured somebody was trying to say that a lot of players are using different equipment compared to what their sponsors claim ... and thats what people were debating on ...

 

[mbking]

Someone in my table tennis club told me that the blades and rubbers that the pros get are a bit different than the rubbers or blades that are on offer for everybody.They are especially designed for them.