Why it is hard for umpires to call hidden serves

[Gtsnake]

Perhaps unrelated:

During yesterday Final of the WS & MS World Cup, SYS was faulted twice for faulty service. First was low toss and the second was for tossing the ball into the body ( non vertical toss )

ML was faulted once for low toss serve. Maybe the umpire heard our ( the TT fanbase ) grivances regarding unsportsmanlike serve.

Perhaps???

Yeah I think that was a good thing. It means they're looking at it and not afraid to make a call. They need to keep calling it so players will understand they cannot get away with it. At least they could lose a point.

Another issue with pros making semi-legal toss or serve hiding is it trickles down to amateur levels. I encounter illegal serves all the time. I can't call it since I'm not playing in a tournament and most amateur umps aren't going to call it. But even during league play it's very annoying especially if I misread the serve and get my return pounded.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Yeah I think that was a good thing. It means they're looking at it and not afraid to make a call. They need to keep calling it so players will understand they cannot get away with it. At least they could lose a point.

Another issue with pros making semi-legal toss or serve hiding is it trickles down to amateur levels. I encounter illegal serves all the time. I can't call it since I'm not playing in a tournament and most amateur umps aren't going to call it. But even during league play it's very annoying especially if I misread the serve and get my return pounded.

Warning: Rant below.

I played against a lower level player and lost. And he won because he was serving all sort of nonsense no toss serve. Picture this, without warning, without any tossing, he just hit a fast one to my far FH. And he does it many times. I protested! My mates told me to suck it up like a man because this is not a tournament. I mean, WTF! How is this for fair play?

Previously when he wasn't using these shitty serves, I won him 4-0. During our last encounter he started using all these illegal serves and won me 3-2. I am all to celebrate his win if he practice fair-play and exhibit sportsmanlike behaviour but no, he had to resort to these unsportsmanlike behaviour just to beat me.

Rant over.

 

[lodro]

Warning: Rant below.

I played against a lower level player and lost. And he won because he was serving all sort of nonsense no toss serve. Picture this, without warning, without any tossing, he just hit a fast one to my far FH. And he does it many times. I protested! My mates told me to suck it up like a man because this is not a tournament. I mean, WTF! How is this for fair play?

Previously when he wasn't using these shitty serves, I won him 4-0. During our last encounter he started using all these illegal serves and won me 3-2. I am all to celebrate his win if he practice fair-play and exhibit sportsmanlike behaviour but no, he had to resort to these unsportsmanlike behaviour just to beat me.

Rant over.

Te rant is never over 😁
I have now adopted the system that I am happy to "play"" with anybody but the moment they suggest we have a match and start counting I insist on points made using illegal serves are counted for me.
I can recommend this system to anybody who has no needs to be loved 😂

 

[NextLevel]

Warning: Rant below.

I played against a lower level player and lost. And he won because he was serving all sort of nonsense no toss serve. Picture this, without warning, without any tossing, he just hit a fast one to my far FH. And he does it many times. I protested! My mates told me to suck it up like a man because this is not a tournament. I mean, WTF! How is this for fair play?

Previously when he wasn't using these shitty serves, I won him 4-0. During our last encounter he started using all these illegal serves and won me 3-2. I am all to celebrate his win if he practice fair-play and exhibit sportsmanlike behaviour but no, he had to resort to these unsportsmanlike behaviour just to beat me.

Rant over.

So when I tell people to suck it up in the US, it is because very often in the US, when this stuff haopens in a tournament:

1. There is no guarantee that the umpire will save you because he might be busy with another match or just might not even agree with your assessment as consistently as you would like him to.
2. You can get called for serves just as well as your opponent can because there are many ways for serves to be illegal, yours might not be as clean as you think they are.

Finally, since people were telling you to suck it up, you can ask them how they would read and return the serve. Fixing serve return issues seen or learned in practice can help in a big way in competition.

But of course, if you don't play competitions, just ignore this, tell the guy off and don't play him. No one needs to do what they don't enjoy or practice what they don't enjoy unless they like winning more and want to do what it takes to win under pressure.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

What about other racquet sports out there? Squash / racquet ball, Lawn Tennis, badminton, paddle ball / pickle ball etc... is service rule blatantly fouled and ignored? Is it a major problem in the amateur scene? How do you all deal with it? Suck it up like a man too?

 

[lodro]

What about other racquet sports out there? Squash / racquet ball, Lawn Tennis, badminton, paddle ball / pickle ball etc... is service rule blatantly fouled and ignored? Is it a major problem in the amateur scene? How do you all deal with it? Suck it up like a man too?

many of the sports you quote can not be played in the garage.
Too often we get new flesh coming to the clubs and nobody has the guts to tell them to learn legal serves quickly because there is fear that the newbies get pissed off and stay away and the clubs here are desperate for new members to help pay for the hall rent and other costs.

 

[Johnniedarko]

@Gozo Aruna
This is not going to be about TT but more about life in general.

'Suck it up like a man.' and its equivalents 'be the bigger person' or 'be the adult', are always used because the third person wants to avoid conflict (between you and the 2nd person). Underlying point is thay a happy looking community is more important than an actually happy community.

While I am partly Dutch (very direct culture), I have a part Asian* family and that part uses this type of phrase a lot. Daily. And I it's never good for your soul. (*Not saying all Asians are like this btw but it is very typical in my country)

The premise is wrong. A real adults/men/bigger person should give the example that wrong is wrong and that people stand up for that. Kids, and adults, needs to see that.

Imo 'Suck it up like a man' is just a tougher sounding version of 'Be a doormat please'.

Doesn't mean you need to start a fight though. You can use the situation and approach the situation with humor and Iongles advice. On the next illegal serve:
"Haha no we are not going to do that. If you do that ots going to count for me" and stand your ground. If he complains to others and wants to mock you, you say: 'I just want to help him become a real TT player, grow our of this kid stuff'
If your culture is anything like mine (where an appearance of looking happy and friendly is more important than being happy, and also status is everything), then this forces the other player to comply as to not lose face.
It's all about not looking like the aggressor.

Or you can just not play him or accept your fate, but I think this is how I'd go for it.

Personally I have heard that phrase so much that I get triggered by it (as you can tell by this rant ) so for me I immediately want to do the opposite and start the conflict. I thus have less relations with my family but I am also a much happier person.

 

[backspacer]

Te rant is never over 😁
I have now adopted the system that I am happy to "play"" with anybody but the moment they suggest we have a match and start counting I insist on points made using illegal serves are counted for me.
I can recommend this system to anybody who has no needs to be loved 😂

I once complained about a clubmate's serves because every single one of them is illegal and he got mad at me. That's what you get for trying to correct people. This sport is one giant headache.

 

[backspacer]

What about other racquet sports out there? Squash / racquet ball, Lawn Tennis, badminton, paddle ball / pickle ball etc... is service rule blatantly fouled and ignored? Is it a major problem in the amateur scene? How do you all deal with it? Suck it up like a man too?

In professional badminton it's not an issue. There is a service judge with a device to measure height of contact point because that's the only rule although last year a serve got banned that put spin on the shuttle and made it too difficult to return.

 

[lodro]

I once complained about a clubmate's serves because every single one of them is illegal and he got mad at me. That's what you get for trying to correct people. This sport is one giant headache.

Walk tall !

 

[Gozo Aruna]

it is strange to me that TT is the only exclusive sport at least that I am aware where illegal serve is tolerated and any complain is seen as elitist / public nuisance behaviour.

 

[IB66]

In professional badminton it's not an issue. There is a service judge with a device to measure height of contact point because that's the only rule although last year a serve got banned that put spin on the shuttle and made it too difficult to return.

I wondered how long it would take them to ban it!!
'spin made it too difficult to return' bout time ITTF banned spin, revoked 'frictionless' rule and banned any rubber that isn't frictionless!!!!!

 

[Gozo Aruna]

In professional badminton it's not an issue. There is a service judge with a device to measure height of contact point because that's the only rule although last year a serve got banned that put spin on the shuttle and made it too difficult to return.

W.r.t. this serve that got banned, in your badminton circle, if an amateur tries it during a friendly game, will he be chastised and warned not to do it or will people in the play area tolerate and tell the receiver to suck it up like a man?

 

[skibiditoilet]

Something interesting:

lol

 

[backspacer]

W.r.t. this serve that got banned, in your badminton circle, if an amateur tries it during a friendly game, will he be chastised and warned not to do it or will people in the play area tolerate and tell the receiver to suck it up like a man?

I don't play anymore, but the specific issue with the serve was that players put spin on the shuttle before they hit it with the racquet. Since you can't really put spin on the shuttle with the racquet it was a big deal. I did not see anyone do it when I was still playing at university.

 

[Gtsnake]

Warning: Rant below.

I played against a lower level player and lost. And he won because he was serving all sort of nonsense no toss serve. Picture this, without warning, without any tossing, he just hit a fast one to my far FH. And he does it many times. I protested! My mates told me to suck it up like a man because this is not a tournament. I mean, WTF! How is this for fair play?

Previously when he wasn't using these shitty serves, I won him 4-0. During our last encounter he started using all these illegal serves and won me 3-2. I am all to celebrate his win if he practice fair-play and exhibit sportsmanlike behaviour but no, he had to resort to these unsportsmanlike behaviour just to beat me.

Rant over.

For this exact reason I've tried to develop an illegal serve of my own. Normally I try to abide by the rules and all my serves are legal to the point of being less effective. When I encounter one of these people I'd like to give back some of their own medicine. The only problem is I'm terrible at serving illegally. I don't know how to hide the ball because my brain is not wired that way. lol

 

[lodro]

For this exact reason I've tried to develop an illegal serve of my own. Normally I try to abide by the rules and all my serves are legal to the point of being less effective. When I encounter one of these people I'd like to give back some of their own medicine. The only problem is I'm terrible at serving illegally. I don't know how to hide the ball because my brain is not wired that way. lol

😇 because we are saints is why our mind refuses to serve illegally
😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇😇

At one stage I tried to learn an illegal serve by blatantly standing right next to the net and kinda get the ball just over net a bit like the high jumpers go over the bar.
But i kept hitting the darn net and gave up before one of the notorious illegal servers had a chance to tell me : ""Hee, you are not serving from behind the line that is illegal"" 😁

 

[skibiditoilet]

For this exact reason I've tried to develop an illegal serve of my own. Normally I try to abide by the rules and all my serves are legal to the point of being less effective. When I encounter one of these people I'd like to give back some of their own medicine. The only problem is I'm terrible at serving illegally. I don't know how to hide the ball because my brain is not wired that way. lol

Hide it using your head or your shoulder.
When you serve, lower your head a bit so that the ball is less visible and really lean into the serve

 

[Gtsnake]

Hide it using your head or your shoulder.
When you serve, lower your head a bit so that the ball is less visible and really lean into the serve

Yeah but that's a weak illegal serve. I want to do something that's completely unreturnable and blatant like Zhou Qihao's trick serve.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Yeah but that's a weak illegal serve. I want to do something that's completely unreturnable and blatant like Zhou Qihao's trick serve.

yup! If no toss serve is tolerated, what is stopping some talented person from serving Zhou Qihao's type of no toss serve? I mean, it is a learnable skill. Where is the fair play in that?