Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[UpSideDownCarl]

I started as a complete noob and my progress is slow but steady. l do not have extra-ordinary talent, it is down to a simple word: Passion & a lil'bit of EJ'ing.

Many I know gave up along the way, some joined the dark side as a means of a short-cut but they will hit a ceiling very early, this I know.

@ Carl,

In this clip, there is this veteran player who keeps pinning me at my BH, my coach and I have been doing pivoting drills to get rid of these pesky BH pinning strategies.

You can also do shadow footwork practice off the table to work on that step-around pivot.

In that video, I am only doing as part of something like a Faulkenberg. But you can practice it BH, FH, BH, FH imagining that you are taking both the BH and the FH at the same point.

This also, it does take a while for it to cross over and be match ready. But, over time, it will be possible.

Those shadow footwork/stroke drills are great for fitness and cardio endurance as well.

 

[NextLevel]

You can also do shadow footwork practice off the table to work on that step-around pivot.

In that video, I am only doing as part of something like a Faulkenberg. But you can practice it BH, FH, BH, FH imagining that you are taking both the BH and the FH at the same point.

This also, it does take a while for it to cross over and be match ready. But, over time, it will be possible.

Those shadow footwork/stroke drills are great for fitness and cardio endurance as well.

As much I wish everyone could play athletic table tennis, I would recommend to Gozo to just develop an extremely spinny backhand and a good backhand punch. People will stop playing to his backhand once that happens and then his forehand will have to catch-up. Footwork drills are for people who want to move. If you won't want to move, learn how to close down angles and move people

 

[Gozo Aruna]

As much I wish everyone could play athletic table tennis, I would recommend to Gozo to just develop an extremely spinny backhand and a good backhand punch. People will stop playing to his backhand once that happens and then his forehand will have to catch-up. Footwork drills are for people who want to move. If you won't want to move, learn how to close down angles and move people

Come on NL, FH pivot is uber cool. IG / Tiktok worthy moments all the time!

 

[NextLevel]

Come on NL, FH pivot is uber cool. IG / Tiktok worthy moments all the time!

It is cool, but so is rapid fire punch and spinny backhand topspin. And spinny backhand topspin ages well, forehand pivot not so much.

 

[dingyibvs]

I had a solid session at the club, trying out my 3 setups. The H3BS feels really good on the FH, countering is incredibly easy, I've never countered loops like tonight. The H3OS was a mixed bag. It was spinny, easy to counter with medium speed, but extremely difficult to generate kill shots.

The Viscaria with boosted D09c's play like a dream on the BH side, but FH is a bit bouncy and I think I prefer H3BS on the FH side. I think I'm gonna try the H3BS on the FH side of the Viscaria, perhaps that'd give me the spin I miss when I play FH shots with the Viscaria, and make it easier for me to play the short game as well. On the BH side I mostly banana flick so a bit bouncy is not an issue.

 

[Lazer]

I had a solid session at the club, trying out my 3 setups. The H3BS feels really good on the FH, countering is incredibly easy, I've never countered loops like tonight. The H3OS was a mixed bag. It was spinny, easy to counter with medium speed, but extremely difficult to generate kill shots.

The Viscaria with boosted D09c's play like a dream on the BH side, but FH is a bit bouncy and I think I prefer H3BS on the FH side. I think I'm gonna try the H3BS on the FH side of the Viscaria, perhaps that'd give me the spin I miss when I play FH shots with the Viscaria, and make it easier for me to play the short game as well. On the BH side I mostly banana flick so a bit bouncy is not an issue.

Good news for me, just received 3 sheet of H3 prov 39 BS. Used to play OS but decided to try BS.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[dingyibvs]

Good news for me, just received 3 sheet of H3 prov 39 BS. Used to play OS but decided to try BS.

Cheers
L-zr

I actually felt the H3BS was solid on the BH side, maybe it's more of a hardness issue? It was a heavy setup though, almost 197 grams total, and rather head heavy. I've switched the H3BS onto the Viscaria, 191.5 grams and feels perfectly balanced. I've also always liked Viscaria's handle, so it feels very good in my hand.

With my improvements in BH play, I'm gaining increasingly more appreciation for equipment requirements for the BH side. I'm gonna seriously explore a switch to Viscaria this time. I didn't particularly like the D09c + Viscaria combo on the FH side, as it was a bit too bouncy in the short game and the spin on the highest powered shots weren't as much as I'd like, but I feel like H3BS is might address those issues. I'll try this setup exclusively at the club tomorrow, and I should get a good idea of what it's capable of.

 

[Lazer]

I actually felt the H3BS was solid on the BH side, maybe it's more of a hardness issue? It was a heavy setup though, almost 197 grams total, and rather head heavy. I've switched the H3BS onto the Viscaria, 191.5 grams and feels perfectly balanced. I've also always liked Viscaria's handle, so it feels very good in my hand.

With my improvements in BH play, I'm gaining increasingly more appreciation for equipment requirements for the BH side. I'm gonna seriously explore a switch to Viscaria this time. I didn't particularly like the D09c + Viscaria combo on the FH side, as it was a bit too bouncy in the short game and the spin on the highest powered shots weren't as much as I'd like, but I feel like H3BS is might address those issues. I'll try this setup exclusively at the club tomorrow, and I should get a good idea of what it's capable of.

Even the blue sponge H3 would be too slow for my BH. It will be my FH rubber.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

As much I wish everyone could play athletic table tennis, I would recommend to Gozo to just develop an extremely spinny backhand and a good backhand punch. People will stop playing to his backhand once that happens and then his forehand will have to catch-up. Footwork drills are for people who want to move. If you won't want to move, learn how to close down angles and move people

Fully agree with what you are saying about the BH. But I also think this could be a "yes-and," situation rather than thinking Gozo can only work on one of the options. I think I was 52 in that footage. I am not young and kind of slow. But by practicing it, regardless of the injuries I have sustained from what I did in the circus and a bike accident a few years ago (right hip jacked), I can still do that pivot decently at just short of 60. My joints are different than yours are. Also different than Gozo's. But that does not mean that Gozo can't play with Shadow work and benefit. I bet it would make a lot of what his coaches try to work on with him happen much more quickly. Because if his coach is trying to have him do stuff like that, and he has not played with it well enough to have the legs and the upper body well coordinated, it will take much longer when trying to put that all together while also trying to track and intercept the ball.

And, if he plays with trying to learn it, that does not mean he has to use it in match play. There still will be some benefit to exploring creative ways to learn it.

Gozo could play around with ways to try and learn to pivot, AND STILL do the more practical thing you are suggesting: And for sure developing the kind of BH you are talking about would be the best AND QUICKEST thing tactically for improving Gozo's match skillz.

So, Gozo, definitely keep working on that BH. It has gotten way better. There will be a point where it is lethal and your tormentors will want to avoid it. Most importantly, keep up the good work. You have come a long way.

 

[NextLevel]

Fully agree with what you are saying about the BH. But I also think this could be a "yes-and," situation rather than thinking Gozo can only work on one of the options. I think I was 52 in that footage. I am not young and kind of slow. But by practicing it, regardless of the injuries I have sustained from what I did in the circus and a bike accident a few years ago (right hip jacked), I can still do that pivot decently at just short of 60. My joints are different than yours are. Also different than Gozo's. But that does not mean that Gozo can't play with Shadow work and benefit. I bet it would make a lot of what his coaches try to work on with him happen much more quickly. Because if his coach is trying to have him do stuff like that, and he has not played with it well enough to have the legs and the upper body well coordinated, it will take much longer when trying to put that all together while also trying to track and intercept the ball.

And, if he plays with trying to learn it, that does not mean he has to use it in match play. There still will be some benefit to exploring creative ways to learn it.

Gozo could play around with ways to try and learn to pivot, AND STILL do the more practical thing you are suggesting: And for sure developing the kind of BH you are talking about would be the best AND QUICKEST thing tactically for improving Gozo's match skillz.

So, Gozo, definitely keep working on that BH. It has gotten way better. There will be a point where it is lethal and your tormentors will want to avoid it. Most importantly, keep up the good work. You have come a long way.

I agree, I still do footwork drills with crappy knees. Use it or lose it is true no matter your physical state.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Hulk Smash!!!

p/s: FH rubber used is Xiom Vega Europe. Using Flextra on FH for smashes is too demanding on the shoulder muscle, it gets sore and stiff. Ultimately I wish to go back to Donic M1, but that is a wish not a need at the moment.

 

[blahness]

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Hulk Smash!!!

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Hulk Smash!!!

Although those were some nice points - you could improve further by simply committing to looping all those long serves / pushes. The pushes you were doing against those obviously long balls would be complete cannon fodder for better players. If you miss the loop, simply adjust for the spin and try again. There's an ideal contact for every single spin archetype. This will make you a much more dangerous player imo. Don't be too afraid of the mistakes - every mistake is a learning opportunity.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Although those were some nice points - you could improve further by simply committing to looping all those long serves / pushes. The pushes you were doing against those obviously long balls would be complete cannon fodder for better players. If you miss the loop, simply adjust for the spin and try again. There's an ideal contact for every single spin archetype. This will make you a much more dangerous player imo. Don't be too afraid of the mistakes - every mistake is a learning opportunity.

yes @blahness , you are completely correct. My noobish ( aka read: rubbish ) serve return, that is, long pushes were loop magnet for my opponent.

I am going to show the whole match once I am done some editing to the original video for brevity.

I played two singles; once against this uncle and another against another auntie in her early sixties. Both are J-Pen users with smooth rubber only on one side. Both were and provincial / state player in their younger days.

Both players I'd struggled immensely receiving their serves, however as you can see, I too did serve some poisonous serves back to them. However, the auntie was much better at receiving my serve and I had less opportunity to perform my signature HULK SMASHES on her.

I did not video the match against the auntie because the pattern is similar, that is, I struggle against their serve.

p/s: Later I commended the auntie about her serves and told her I was not able to read her serves as they all look the same to me. She replied, " Of course sonny, it is my go to strategy, that is, serve and wait to loop the 3rd ball for the kill. "

It is so typical of ol'skool Asian style JPen players of yesteryears ainnit?

 

[NextLevel]

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Hulk Smash!!!

Hi, Gozo. It is a battle to defeat the demon of backspin. But I recommend that people do it with the slow spinny loop that goes of the net, most wrist and forearm activated, often short and high, preferably spinny. But just getting used to barely getting the ball over the net is worth it, even if the ball isnt dangerous. Just to develop a feel for backspin attacking. It puts you more in control and gets you out of the pushing rallies.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Hi, Gozo. It is a battle to defeat the demon of backspin. But I recommend that people do it with the slow spinny loop that goes of the net, most wrist and forearm activated, often short and high, preferably spinny. But just getting used to barely getting the ball over the net is worth it, even if the ball isnt dangerous. Just to develop a feel for backspin attacking. It puts you more in control and gets you out of the pushing rallies.

It is work in progress. Honestly I am all for it, it is just sometimes during match play the brain cognitive part gets offline by the excitement and only the muscle memory is online.

 

[blahness]

yes @blahness , you are completely correct. My noobish serve return, that is, long pushes were loop magnet for my oppponent.

I am going to show the whole match once I am done some editing for brevity.

I played two singles; once against this uncle and another against another auntie in her sixties. Both are JPen with smooth rubber one side only. Both were and provincial / state player in their younger days.

Both players I'd struggled immensely with their serves but as you can see, I too serve some poison back to them with my own brand of service, although the auntie were much better with receiving my serve and I had less opportunity to perform my signature HULK SMASH move on her.

I did not video the match against the auntie because the pattern is similar, that is, I struggle against their serve.

p/s: Later I commended the auntie about her serves and told her I was not able to read her serves as they all look the same to me. She replied, " Of course sonny, it is my go to strategy, that is, serve and wait to loop the 3rd ball for the kill. "

It is so typical of ol'skool Asian style JPen players of yesteryears ainnit?

not just yesteryears, if you watched Wang Chuqin play it is the same style. Serve and FH loopkill the 3rd ball. Easier said than done tho!

 

[dingyibvs]

I played with the Vis for quite a while today, it did feel exactly how I thought it would, but due to the switch I just didn't have a lot of confidence in my shot. The shots weren't even that off, it just felt different. I played a practice match, and I did similar as before, though I think with my familiar setup I would've beaten him fairly easily as I've gotten better since then. Later on in doubles I switched back to my old setup to compare, and I was doing way better than before due to my BH improvement.

Now I'm in a bit of quandary, should I bite the bullet and switch to the Viscaria now knowing the BH of the W968 will never get to Viscaria's level, or should I minimize changes and stick to my old setup with just H3BS instead of D09c on the FH side? I haven't given the W968 with boosted D09c a proper try yet since last time I tried it was way too soon after boosting, so I think I'm gonna try the W968 + H3BS + boosted D09c setup tomorrow. One last possibility is using an H3 40 on the BH side. The H3 37 felt too mushy, while the H3 40 BS when I tried it felt like a grippier D05. I have a sheet of H3 OS 40 on my hand, so I might give that a try and see how it plays on the BH side at some point of time.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I played with the Vis for quite a while today, it did feel exactly how I thought it would, but due to the switch I just didn't have a lot of confidence in my shot. The shots weren't even that off, it just felt different. I played a practice match, and I did similar as before, though I think with my familiar setup I would've beaten him fairly easily as I've gotten better since then. Later on in doubles I switched back to my old setup to compare, and I was doing way better than before due to my BH improvement.

Now I'm in a bit of quandary, should I bite the bullet and switch to the Viscaria now knowing the BH of the W968 will never get to Viscaria's level, or should I minimize changes and stick to my old setup with just H3BS instead of D09c on the FH side? I haven't given the W968 with boosted D09c a proper try yet since last time I tried it was way too soon after boosting, so I think I'm gonna try the W968 + H3BS + boosted D09c setup tomorrow. One last possibility is using an H3 40 on the BH side. The H3 37 felt too mushy, while the H3 40 BS when I tried it felt like a grippier D05. I have a sheet of H3 OS 40 on my hand, so I might give that a try and see how it plays on the BH side at some point of time.

Your dilemma is easily solved.

Do you attack / finish the point with a powerful FH loop-kill?

or

Do you use BH quick counter with wide placement get your point

or you are middle of the way being comfortable attacking from both wings and has a smooth transition between FH & BH?

 

[dingyibvs]

Your dilemma is easily solved.

Do you attack / finish the point with a powerful FH loop-kill?

or

Do you use BH quick counter with wide placement get your point

or you are middle of the way being comfortable attacking from both wings and has a smooth transition between FH & BH?

FH predominant, but want to increasingly use my BH. I want to mainly create opportunities with my BH and finish opportunity points to my BH.

 

[Emin]

I played with the Vis for quite a while today, it did feel exactly how I thought it would, but due to the switch I just didn't have a lot of confidence in my shot. The shots weren't even that off, it just felt different. I played a practice match, and I did similar as before, though I think with my familiar setup I would've beaten him fairly easily as I've gotten better since then. Later on in doubles I switched back to my old setup to compare, and I was doing way better than before due to my BH improvement.

Now I'm in a bit of quandary, should I bite the bullet and switch to the Viscaria now knowing the BH of the W968 will never get to Viscaria's level, or should I minimize changes and stick to my old setup with just H3BS instead of D09c on the FH side? I haven't given the W968 with boosted D09c a proper try yet since last time I tried it was way too soon after boosting, so I think I'm gonna try the W968 + H3BS + boosted D09c setup tomorrow. One last possibility is using an H3 40 on the BH side. The H3 37 felt too mushy, while the H3 40 BS when I tried it felt like a grippier D05. I have a sheet of H3 OS 40 on my hand, so I might give that a try and see how it plays on the BH side at some point of time.

When deciding for one Equipment in a Situation like this you will inevitably need to make a trade-off in one way or another.

It comes down to what you want and the goals that you set yourself in the short and long term.

Forehand of Viscaria will never Match that of W968 ( or Outer vs inner blade for that matter).
Same goes for backhand of W968 and Viscaria.

It comes down to preference in the end.

For me personally, I tried around and I couldnt get nearly as comfortable on Forehand with any racket that wasnt my Pro 05 + boosted Chinese rubber.

On Backhand I can adjust much more easily and get "good" and confident with it.
While tacky rubber + Pro 05 didnt go well,
G-1, Mantra Pro and Ventus Speed are working for me.
Hardness range of 45-50 degrees.
None of them are typical tensor rubbers.
Not quite the same, but similar enough so far.

Maybe a non-tacky BH rubber is what you need.