Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 10, 2018

Archosaurus said:
Did some drilling on monday. This is the drill that Carl suggested. At least, we tried.

Backspin short serve, long push, loop, free play. I just focused on the serve and loop for the most part.

My body wasn't feeling 100% okay so I took it a bit easy, and my serve was very off so the drill is fairly inconsistent, but if you can give some tips, please do.

I tried serving closer to the body, with a shorter swing, gripping the handle with my lower 3 fingers. It'll take some time until I can consistently serve it heavy and short on the table. Today I will go again most likely: perhaps the drill is more consistent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dtK-6kpVV0

Okay, let’s see: info.

I will start with the good stuff. Your FH loop looks like it has gotten a decent amount better and the spin looks pretty decent on some of them.

I do think I recommended a different drill though. You were talking about how you had trouble if the ball was a little too far from you to move to the ball and open.

So I suggested:

1) short backspin serve,
2) push to all angles (long enough to loop)
3) you be ready for the ball going anywhere and looping.
4) Open play.

This would force you to set earlier and move to the ball.

The drill you did is fine and is okay for you and your training partner. But it looks more like:

1) Long serve.
2) push to the middle.
3) FH loop.

And right now you are serving and watching the serve. And when you set for the 3rd ball, there is no reset and watch. You are going straight to ready for the FH in the middle.

On the few where the push went a little wider, or more to the BH side, you were not ready for the randomness.

If the push was random, could go anywhere from wide FH to wide BH, you would be forced to adjust to that. So that you could BH loop when it goes there or FH loop when it goes there.

Getting used to that is what would help you learn to move to wherever the push is.

But for practicing opening when someone pushes to you, what you are doing with the opening loop looks good.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Archosaurus · Jan 10, 2018

UpSideDownCarl said:
Okay, let’s see: info.

I will start with the good stuff. Your FH loop looks like it has gotten a decent amount better and the spin looks pretty decent on some of them.

I do think I recommended a different drill though. You were talking about how you had trouble if the ball was a little too far from you to move to the ball and open.

So I suggested:

1) short backspin serve,
2) push to all angles (long enough to loop)
3) you be ready for the ball going anywhere and looping.
4) Open play.

This would force you to set earlier and move to the ball.

The drill you did is fine and is okay for you and your training partner. But it looks more like:

1) Long serve.
2) push to the middle.
3) FH loop.

And right now you are serving and watching the serve. And when you set for the 3rd ball, there is no reset and watch. You are going straight to ready for the FH in the middle.

On the few where the push went a little wider, or more to the BH side, you were not ready for the randomness.

If the push was random, could go anywhere from wide FH to wide BH, you would be forced to adjust to that. So that you could BH loop when it goes there or FH loop when it goes there.

Getting used to that is what would help you learn to move to wherever the push is.

But for practicing opening when someone pushes to you, what you are doing with the opening loop looks good.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Alright. I'll try to get my serve tighter, and tell my partner to push randomly next time. I posted some other videos as well from today, much of the same stuff. Serve's still not anywhere near where I want it. Need to get used to serving heavy and short, even if my partner will hit the first 20 into the net.

ttmonster · Jan 10, 2018

Your forehand loop close to the table is pretty good ! No more spotting points !

OldschoolPenholder said:
Hit last night with 3 people. First 2 - I just blocked for them.

3rd partner - my first time hitting with him. Seemed to be steady enough flat blocker which really let me progressively rip my FH topspin/FH loops. Initially conscious of being close to the table, shorten my stroke, right elbow not flaring up, left arm not flinging wildly ... once flowing, i did stay close to the table, but didn't catch the ball earlier ... my reset still needs work. Basically i need a lot of work lol

We hit for 45 mins, didn't care if i had correct stroke or not, i was happy that i have a partner that was steady enough blocking my FH and I was able to let loose. Of course i should concentrate on form/technique/stroke, but was pleasantly surprised at my partner's blocking. Didn't think to video as I was on a high.

He called it quits, i thanked him, he was about to go home and then i recalled, i should video this lol

Of course, Murphy's Law, the video isn't as good as when we hit earlier. Both a little tired. Not happy with the video, but at least it's something for all the kibitzers and coaches on this thread. Good for a laugh too!

After last night, concluded, i need to sand the wings more. The handle is too rounded and big for me... prefer the flatter handles like the oldschool DHS. Want to make a groove into the handle, but hesitant as the blade is very light as it is. Plus, i don't mind sanding the wings, but i don't want to butcher the handle.

Forgive my friend's videoing technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcIP5fYcj0

On the other table are 2 of the better players at my club.

Mostly FH topsins/loops (if it can be called that) ... at 1:02-1:10 / 2:58-3:10 I flat hit.

p.s. Saw PPH at the club. He was RPB block/punch against an easily 2000+ partner's FH powerful loops (probably 2200(?)) PPH was like, "I got this!" and RPB block/punched those power loops back! Very cool and inspirational to witness. I need more work on my RPB lol

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 10, 2018

ttmonster said:
Your forehand loop close to the table is pretty good ! No more spotting points !

Now, OSPH will post footage of Shakehand and ask for 10 points.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 10, 2018

ttmonster said:
Your forehand loop close to the table is pretty good ! No more spotting points !

UpSideDownCarl said:
Now, OSPH will post footage of Shakehand and ask for 10 points.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

DRATS! FOILED AGAIN!

LOLOL seriously... thank you for your kind words monster... still a lot to work on. work in progress, it's the journey not the destination, progress not perfection.

EDIT: so many "broken parts" -- hard to fix them all at once and i don't intend to ... baby steps, i fought my urges hard to stay close to the table and not to take 1 to 2 steps back and have a discus-throw windup on the loops.

ttmonster · Jan 10, 2018

ya ya ya ... blah blah blah ... NO SPOTTING POINTS OSPH !

OldschoolPenholder said:
DRATS! FOILED AGAIN!

LOLOL seriously... thank you for your kind words monster... still a lot to work on. work in progress, it's the journey not the destination, progress not perfection.

EDIT: so many "broken parts" -- hard to fix them all at once and i don't intend to ... baby steps, i fought my urges hard to stay close to the table and not to take 1 to 2 steps back and have a discus-throw windup on the loops.

confiscate · Jan 10, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcIP5fYcj0

Looking good!

A small bit of advice...at 0:41 and 0:52, you can see there is a bit of trouble, when the next ball is too far to the FH side. You need to "jump" in order to "reach" the ball. You contact the ball "while your body is in the air".

Basically you are forced to do a small crossover step to the FH side, even when the ball is just a little to the right hand side (only one small step away)

This is because when you put your weight on your right foot, the distance between your right foot and the ball is too wide. In a FH drill like this, where the change in ball direction is small for every hit, everytime you put your weight on your right foot, the right foot should match up with where the ball is coming.

For instance, when the ball is coming to the BH side (0:04), you moved your right foot to the left to match up with the incoming ball, while putting your weight on the foot. So when you hit the ball, there is no "crossover jump" to the left. It's just straight up. No problems. Perfect.

When the ball is going to the FH side, it's the same.
- at start, body and both foot are pointing forward
- the ball is coming back to you, you can feel the ball is going to be further to the right, beyond your right foot
- lift your right foot in the air,
- use your left foot to "push" your entire body in the clockwise direction (jump)
- your right foot will move to the right
- land your right foot to match incoming ball
- your weight will already be on your right foot
- hit the ball

Basically use your right feet to aim at the incoming ball. Jump to the right, before (not after) you put your weight on your right foot.

I used to have this problem too. Hope it helps

kmcockes · Jan 11, 2018

CallumMcKinnon said:
Playing ping pong tonight - sandpaper instead of rubber - anyone else tried it as I'm not sure how the bats will play

I enjoy playing with sandpaper bats at work, its fast and a bit old school + I grew up playong with them at YMCA summer camps.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 11, 2018

ttmonster said:
NO SPOTTING POINTS OSPH !

ok monster, i won't spot points to any of TTDer especially you LOLOLOL

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 11, 2018

confiscate said:
Looking good!

A small bit of advice...at 0:41 and 0:52, you can see there is a bit of trouble, when the next ball is too far to the FH side. You need to "jump" in order to "reach" the ball. You contact the ball "while your body is in the air".

Basically you are forced to do a small crossover step to the FH side, even when the ball is just a little to the right hand side (only one small step away)

This is because when you put your weight on your right foot, the distance between your right foot and the ball is too wide. In a FH drill like this, where the change in ball direction is small for every hit, everytime you put your weight on your right foot, the right foot should match up with where the ball is coming.

For instance, when the ball is coming to the BH side (0:04), you moved your right foot to the left to match up with the incoming ball, while putting your weight on the foot. So when you hit the ball, there is no "crossover jump" to the left. It's just straight up. No problems. Perfect.

When the ball is going to the FH side, it's the same.
- at start, body and both foot are pointing forward
- the ball is coming back to you, you can feel the ball is going to be further to the right, beyond your right foot
- lift your right foot in the air,
- use your left foot to "push" your entire body in the clockwise direction (jump)
- your right foot will move to the right
- land your right foot to match incoming ball
- your weight will already be on your right foot
- hit the ball

Basically use your right feet to aim at the incoming ball. Jump to the right, before (not after) you put your weight on your right foot.

I used to have this problem too. Hope it helps

I don't train footwork enough, thank you for the tip! Thank you confiscate!!

ttmonster · Jan 11, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
ok monster, i won't spot points to any of you LOLOLOL

NextLevel · Jan 11, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
DRATS! FOILED AGAIN!

LOLOL seriously... thank you for your kind words monster... still a lot to work on. work in progress, it's the journey not the destination, progress not perfection.

EDIT: so many "broken parts" -- hard to fix them all at once and i don't intend to ... baby steps, i fought my urges hard to stay close to the table and not to take 1 to 2 steps back and have a discus-throw windup on the loops.

Take the ball earlier and earlier. You are always waiting for it to drop - you may surprise yourself if you take the ball earlier and cover it more aggressively. Just make sure you swing and always turn/brush the ball (don't hit it flat). It's good stuff by the way.

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 11, 2018

NextLevel said:
Take the ball earlier and earlier. You are always waiting for it to drop - you may surprise yourself if you take the ball earlier and cover it more aggressively. Just make sure you swing and always turn/brush the ball (don't hit it flat). It's good stuff by the way.

Thank you Sir! You have no idea how much the urge is to let the ball drop ... but i realize I'm all arm and not enough legs and core on those.

42andbackpains pointed it out to me repeatedly ... i'm a close-to-the-table player, but when practicing loops, I'm 2 steps or so away from the table. Also have the dinosaur windup loop stroke. He keeps reminding me that the current game all has shorten their strokes.

I can see I'm still taking the ball late. I don't get a chance to work my FH loops consistently, as i usually hit with partners who are not my level. I'm ok with it though as ultimately i'm looking to exercise. Will definitely try to take the ball earlier.

And I have to say it again, my eternal gratitude to you for the blade and rubbers! Have had the blade about 2 yrs now but due to a few factors, have only been hitting with it regularly for about 6 months, give or take. This setup has opened up aspects of the game for me to explore that I didn't expect to have the opportunity given i'm oldschool. THANK YOU!

NextLevel · Jan 11, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
Thank you Sir! You have no idea how much the urge is to let the ball drop ... but i realize I'm all arm and not enough legs and core on those.

42andbackpains pointed it out to me repeatedly ... i'm a close-to-the-table player, but when practicing loops, I'm 2 steps or so away from the table. Also have the dinosaur windup loop stroke. He keeps reminding me that the current game all has shorten their strokes.

I can see I'm still taking the ball late. I don't get a chance to work my FH loops consistently, as i usually hit with partners who are not my level. I'm ok with it though as ultimately i'm looking to exercise. Will definitely try to take the ball earlier.

And I have to say it again, my eternal gratitude to you for the blade and rubbers! Have had the blade about 2 yrs now but due to a few factors, have only been hitting with it regularly for about 6 months, give or take. This setup has opened up aspects of the game for me to explore that I didn't expect to have the opportunity given i'm oldschool. THANK YOU!

Not at all - take the ball on the rise or on the fall - ideally don't take it at the top of the bounce. The heavier the spin, the earlier you can and should take it with a shorter stroke - sounds paradoxical but it works.

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 11, 2018

NextLevel said:
Not at all - take the ball on the rise or on the fall - ideally don't take it at the top of the bounce. The heavier the spin, the earlier you can and should take it with a shorter stroke - sounds paradoxical but it works.

It does, but I get it, just haven't been able to execute it consistently yet. I've fallen prey many a time to loops i've taken late and the little sidespin on it hooks away from me.

LOL at me -- i recall our games, quite a few times I'm thinking I'm ok, let NL loop, I'll be able to block it LOLOLOL you smoked many an ace past me, not only the hook on it, but the speed on it!

NextLevel · Jan 11, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
It does, but I get it, just haven't been able to execute it consistently yet. I've fallen prey many a time to loops i've taken late and the little sidespin on it hooks away from me.

LOL at me -- i recall our games, quite a few times I'm thinking I'm ok, let NL loop, I'll be able to block it LOLOLOL you smoked many an ace past me, not only the hook on it, but the speed on it!

The hook is not *deliberate*, it's more a way of getting more racket on the ball without missing that works for me. The more racket area you can expose to the ball, the more confidently you can swing and minimize the risk of whiffing. Maybe if I started younger and had different technique, my approach would be different. But I have seen enough good players doing something similar that I recommend it not to get the hook but to improve the consistency. Trying to hit a ball when all you can do is hit it from the back creates a problem that your circular looping stroke will struggle to solve consistently as an adult trying to consciously control it. Most good players solve it at some point in their lives when they don't even know what they are doing they just swing until the ball starts landing on the table.

Flatstyk · Jan 11, 2018

NextLevel, I just want to call out a bit of "thanks" for your repeatedly referencing your concept of shaping a forehand. You have helped me improve my game. I play penhold, at the table, and my history is lots of early, off the bounce hitting. Your descriptions have enabled me to find more spin and variety in my forehand. Tip of my hat...

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 11, 2018

NextLevel said:
The hook is not *deliberate*, it's more a way of getting more racket on the ball without missing that works for me. The more racket area you can expose to the ball, the more confidently you can swing and minimize the risk of whiffing. Maybe if I started younger and had different technique, my approach would be different. But I have seen enough good players doing something similar that I recommend it not to get the hook but to improve the consistency. Trying to hit a ball when all you can do is hit it from the back creates a problem that your circular looping stroke will struggle to solve consistently as an adult trying to consciously control it. Most good players solve it at some point in their lives when they don't even know what they are doing they just swing until the ball starts landing on the table.

Good post and thank you!

The biggest obstacle for me in using the American Hinoki WRC regularly was because it was a noticeably smaller racket compared to the blades I've used and gotten accustomed to. There are some balls I've thought I would get, but I miss, i chalk it up to me being slow and late, but part of me can't help to think maybe it's because the blade is smaller. Regardless, this setup is benefitting me more than hurting me.

ttmonster · Jan 11, 2018

okay .. since NL already started this ... let me not hold back .. the only thing I noticed is that you are trying to over hit once you land a few shots ... I think a lot of us ( including myself ) has this notion that you need to keep raising your power level when somebody is blocking , the idea is not that , the idea is to fine tune the timing and the spin and consistency ... the power will automatically increase to its optimal level depending on how fast you can recover .... if you try overhitting in practice , it will give you trouble in singles especially because in game play the balls will come back and you will not be able to reset in time ... remember your muscles will be tighter and balls will fly faster in game play and so will the incoming blocks ...

OldschoolPenholder said:
Good post and thank you!

The biggest obstacle for me in using the American Hinoki WRC regularly was because it was a noticeably smaller racket compared to the blades I've used and gotten accustomed to. There are some balls I've thought I would get, but I miss, i chalk it up to me being slow and late, but part of me can't help to think maybe it's because the blade is smaller. Regardless, this setup is benefitting me more than hurting me.

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 11, 2018

ttmonster said:
okay .. since NL already started this ... let me not hold back .. the only thing I noticed is that you are trying to over hit once you land a few shots ... I think a lot of us ( including myself ) has this notion that you need to keep raising your power level when somebody is blocking , the idea is not that , the idea is to fine tune the timing and the spin and consistency ... the power will automatically increase to its optimal level depending on how fast you can recover .... if you try overhitting in practice , it will give you trouble in singles especially because in game play the balls will come back and you will not be able to reset in time ... remember your muscles will be tighter and balls will fly faster in game play and so will the incoming blocks ...

This is an excellent point! Thank you monster!!

2 comments:

1. I have sometimes wanted to rev my engine and drive at 120mph (70 kmh?) but due to various factors I'm driving at 35 mph. I was ecstatic and in a high on Tues night, I was able to drive 55 mph - 120mph. Outside of working with Der 2 yrs ago and 42andbackpains feeding me multiball one time, I cannot SLOW loop due to various known/unknown factors. Granted I've not trained it enough in my 3 yrs of 'unretirement' off of a 30+ yrs break from TT. But a few known factors, I have some kind of mental block to slow looping and hence i've lost confidence in my looping, and i have in my head all the various corrections i need to be making and it's probably overwhelmed me resulting in a mental block and lack of confidence. This is evident when my partners start chopping to me.

2. I know my reset is slow, but I noticed as I progressively amped up the loops, even with the shortened strokes, the ball came back too fast for me. Given I'm actively trying to work at staying close-to-the-table-short-stroke-looping, i was noticing the slow reset, partly me, partly the ball blocked back. The Yin-Yang of it though is I'm slowly getting a little confidence at being able to resist my urge to step away from the table to loop with my longer stroke as well as confidence in looping.

Thanks for the tip! I will take my foot off the gas pedal next time I have an opportunity to work my short stroke loops.

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