From allwood to carbon

Photos of my Stiga Allround Evolution blade next, on top of and under my TB ZLF:

Side by side:



Allround Evolution on top of TB ZLF



TB ZLF on top of Stiga Evolution:



Sort of side by side:



When one is on top of the other it is hard to see the one underneath even though the naked faces of each blade is a slightly different shape.


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It is the stiga allround evolution

Well it just an optical illusion, thses blades are both 157x150 but with different shape, it is just me who made a mistake about the measure (maybe it is because I took the rubber for the values which are cut more or less like the blade)

It takes me few months of practice when switching to carbon blades due to the reduced dwell time and increased speed.

Aaaaand I went from Carbon to allwood and these are the things I found
- My contact had minimal brush
- Few balls flew over the net
- My timing was awful
- and lastly I felt the ball again not the little artificial feel
FEEL AGAIN

RajaLoopah said:

Aaaaand I went from Carbon to allwood and these are the things I found
- My contact had minimal brush
- Few balls flew over the net
- My timing was awful
- and lastly I felt the ball again not the little artificial feel
FEEL AGAIN

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So, are you saying that going from Carbon to All Wood helped or the opposite?

Just curious. It is hard to tell because the first three items could be interpreted in a few ways.


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UpSideDownCarl said:

So, are you saying that going from Carbon to All Wood helped or the opposite?

Just curious. It is hard to tell because the first three items could be interpreted in a few ways.


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Haha sorry the first three were the carryover effects coming from carbon. When I first played with FPBE those were the things I noticed but eventually adjusted. I never needed carbon to speed up my game cause all I needed was a faster wood, 7ply wood lol.

Carl can you compare the MX-P to the FX-P? I am planning on changing my bh from MX-P to FX-P

RajaLoopah said:

Carl can you compare the MX-P to the FX-P? I am planning on changing my bh from MX-P to FX-P

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For BH I like FXP better. Softer helps. Not fully sure how to compare them though. FXP feels like the same rubber but a little softer. Since I don't really flip them to check if they feel different with FXP on FH or MXP on BH. That is how I would really feel the difference would be to swap back and forth on each wing. Because they really just feel like what I am now used to for each side.


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RajaLoopah said:

Haha sorry the first three were the carryover effects coming from carbon. When I first played with FPBE those were the things I noticed but eventually adjusted. I never needed carbon to speed up my game cause all I needed was a faster wood, 7ply wood lol.

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So you are saying that when you switched from carbon to all wood you had trouble? This still isn't clear what you mean.

Was the wood blade a significantly different weight than the canon blade you switched from?


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UpSideDownCarl said:

So you are saying that when you switched from carbon to all wood you had trouble? This still isn't clear what you mean.

Was the wood blade a significantly different weight than the canon blade you switched from?


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Don't try to diagnose him please - he knows he wants to EJ!

As some of you probably know I went from Carbon to Allwood and than from Allwood to carbon and again back to Allwood and currently playing BTY M.Maze off (but waiting for my new 5ply all wood blade=)))))

You are right NextLevel, this process of trying different equipment is like a drug to certain point. You keep on looking on smth that will suit your game. I am pretty sure beginners to mid level players like me are trying to find equipment for their technique instead of improving technique which is actually can adopt to equipment. For sure when you reach certain level you understand what you actually wants and buying rubbers or blades on purpose based on your preferences.

What I can say about swithcing from Allwood to carbon and back. At the beginning I should of spent my time and money for allwood setup and training with coach and this will probably work for most of the guys who is asking what to buy in this forum.

About 9 month ago I started playing with M.Maze I thought it was "MY BLADE" but lately I regret about my choice since it was head heavy for me and not that controlable. I kept taking lessons with coach, my technique become better but still I wasn't happy with my game. So I switched to Donic Waldner Offensive. I didn't enjoy as much as I enjoy playing with Maze however I found out I score more points with it. It was much slower than Maze and it made me put all my efforts to make a proper stroke to score. It forgives a lot in short game even while blocking fast strokes from my oponents. Again I decided to switch back to Maze. I don't know what happened in this period, was it lessons or together transition time when I went to another level while playing with allwood blade but when I start again playing with Maze my game become absolutely different. I start beating my partner when I usually get 4-7 points. I start feeling the ball clearly when I loop.

I think it is all about practice, practice and practice (training). I would recommend to buy allwood blade and train hard until you get this feeling of the ball so transition from allwood to carbon would be smooth.

I still want to develop myself further and think I need just a bit faster allwood blade and let my maze wait for me for a while once I rise my level before I go to carbon again.

UpSideDownCarl said:

So you are saying that when you switched from carbon to all wood you had trouble? This still isn't clear what you mean.

Was the wood blade a significantly different weight than the canon blade you switched from?


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Yes Yes trouble I had. Lazy I became. Heavier is Apolonia by a gram lol Yoda style

NextLevel said:

Don't try to diagnose him please - he knows he wants to EJ!

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Hahaha my sponsor urged me to try Force Pro Black Edition and if I don't like it I would just return it. So my Apolonia is resting in his box waiting to be discontinued so I can sell it for a higher price lol

If someone describes his/her playing style as "reckless attack", perhaps being a bit less reckless would be better than an equipment change.

Every time I make pretty much any equipment change, it screws me up for a long time, no matter what it feels likes on the first day. So I really don't recommend doing it.

People who have seen my posts over the years will also know that for the most part, I explore very limited areas of "table tennis equipment space". I terms of inverted rubber, the only ones I have used for over a month are T05, T80, MX-P and EL-P. While those aren't exactly the same thing, they are all intended for the same kinds of player, and a lot of the forum posts that mention one of those rubbers will mention the other. And in terms of blades, well I pretty much only use ALC blades. For me this has been Viscaria, TB-ALC, Donic True Carbon, and ZJK-ALC. That is it, going back about ten years. My biggest change in recent years has to switch to a ST handle. Something I should have done years ago, that is one change that I feel really has made a long term positive change (for me, maybe not for you).

Now the reason I mention this and to put it into context, if a switch from a Viscaria to a Donic True Carbon or ZJK-ALC is like traveling from earth to the moon, then moving from an all wood to most composites would be like going from earth to Mars.

And yet, even those minor changes I make, they feel good at first, and then for a month I play like crap and second guess myself because all of my little stuff is just a bit off.

So be very careful. It is really better to avoid equipment changes if at all possible.

UpSideDownCarl said:

FXP feels like the same rubber but a little softer.

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Because it is. Identical topsheet, softer sponge.

Back to topic: Go for a composite blade! If a blade is fast or slow has nothing to do with its material but only how hard you hit with it. Sure, allwood blades tend to "fake" a better feeling, because the vibration is stronger and longer, but who cares? As soon as the ball leaves your blade, it doesn't matter what the blade feels like. And if you have "the feeling" in your hand, then it doesn't matter how strong the feeling is. In my case, this after vibration is just irritating. Also, composite blades have a bigger "sweet spot". That comes from the stiffness the artificial layers bring. I would say GREAT! More of my blade I actually can use to hit the ball. (more value for the money!) Being able to use more of your blade opens up so many more possibilities. Just think about all the spin-variations you can do just by connecting on a different spot on your blade! And why is everyone talking about bad technic? Just because you can't feel the ball does not mean you are damned to have a bad technic. Just people who never got tought a "correct" technic or did not care for it, are these players with a "bad" technic. Composite blades are not worse or better for learning a "correct" technic. Even if your technic is the ugliest, most disgusting and hatefull one, a technic so "incorrect" that it instantly burns the eyes of the spectators, wouldn't it the best feeling if you still win your games? Just imagine you winning with your said technic against a player using an allwood blade, having the most beautiful technic.

Schlaftablette said:

Back to topic: Go for a composite blade! If a blade is fast or slow has nothing to do with its material but only how hard you hit with it. Sure, allwood blades tend to "fake" a better feeling, because the vibration is stronger and longer, but who cares? As soon as the ball leaves your blade, it doesn't matter what the blade feels like. And if you have "the feeling" in your hand, then it doesn't matter how strong the feeling is. In my case, this after vibration is just irritating. Also, composite blades have a bigger "sweet spot". That comes from the stiffness the artificial layers bring. I would say GREAT! More of my blade I actually can use to hit the ball. (more value for the money!) Being able to use more of your blade opens up so many more possibilities. Just think about all the spin-variations you can do just by connecting on a different spot on your blade! And why is everyone talking about bad technic? Just because you can't feel the ball does not mean you are damned to have a bad technic. Just people who never got tought a "correct" technic or did not care for it, are these players with a "bad" technic. Composite blades are not worse or better for learning a "correct" technic. Even if your technic is the ugliest, most disgusting and hatefull one, a technic so "incorrect" that it instantly burns the eyes of the spectators, wouldn't it the best feeling if you still win your games? Just imagine you winning with your said technic against a player using an allwood blade, having the most beautiful technic.

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I know other people may take you seriously, but for me to listen to you, you gotta display some evidence of your level of play/experience. While anyone can use anything they want, what you are saying is true for the shot you are playing, but not true for how you adjust to the next shot you intend to play. The feedback from a wood blade helps you tell the kind of feeling you are looking for on the next shot. If you can get that feeling from a composite, which tends to make all shots feel fairly similar, that is fine. But unless you started playing as an adult and got to decent level using those blades, you are mostly dabbling in stuff you have never seriously experienced.

I think the point in using allwood blades to feel the ball is so that you can recognize the difference between a bad shot and a good shot as a developing player. As someone who doesn't have much "feeling in the hand".

I tried my coach's Viscaria with T80 & T05fx the other day and noticed it was really only lighter than my Dawei Matrix with 999t & Corbor. I didn't notice much difference in my ability to feel the ball, though I could feel that his sponges are softer. Am I so inept that I can't tell the difference? Probably. But I do think a newer player can use and develop with a carbon blade as long as he/she has a coach and is conscientious about spin quality on every shot.