Modern game too repetitive?

Well, it is what it is. Best defense is offensive, why push the ball when you can flick it or force the opponent to fail returning a chop when you can counter attacking.

I do agree that the game does become more dull these days though, especially when compared to 38mm days and speed glue era

SFF_lib said:

Do you think the mod*ern table tennis game is becoming more and more homogenous?*

What do I mean by ho*mogenous? You serve, within seconds some*one does a BH flick. It then kicks start a BH-to-BH fast ral*ly. The rest of the game goes similarly. This is especially common among the CNT SH grip players. Eu*ropean players are doing more and more BH-focused attack.

We don’t see much of the following:
##Powerful FH 3rd ball attack in BH positi*on (famous examples - Ma Lin, Rye Seung min)
##Great serves with am*azing short game man*oeuvre (Ma Lin, Wald*ner and Schlager)
##Clever placement, ma*nipulative block and attack (Waldner, Ma Lin)
##Powerful BH attack (Kreanga and Boll)
##Powerful FH with bli*zz fast footwork (Rye Seung Min, Kim Taek Soo and Ma Lin)
##Non-inverted rubber players (Liu Guolian*g)

I miss those time in the 1990 up to 2004. Ever table tennis event was a mixture of different styles. You could not say China could win. Amaz*ing players were the*re from all around the world. It was ner*ve racking to watch but fun.

Right now even as a Chinese I feel sad that China is dominat*ing the table tennis world. China has br*ought the bar high but the rest of the world is not producing comparable players. It becomes repetit*ive to watch table tennis world events.*

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i quite agree to what you have mentioned. Most of the games are also pretty close encounters so now it has become a matter on accuracy. The strategy or the cleverness seems to be missing.

Interestingly, using the other side of the table seems to be almost absent.

Though the game has now become pretty fast with advancement in blade and rubber technology and unbelievable rallies from the mid table.

had ITTF stayed with the old balls, maybe we would have seen more kind of styles ?

With the new ball we lost too much spin..
So now the ITTF should just create a new rule about the tables and make them more slippery so the new ball doesn't loose so much spin on the table. The amount of spin will increase, the big sharks will make a lot of money on new tables.. And some part of the spin will return to the game so the players won't say there's not enough spin(shut them up, ha-ha). Profit

The new balls benefit the chinese even more. Nobody in tennis complains that the game is too serve/return focused...

I have no problems with any changes that have been made so far. The more I play, the more I enjoy to watch. So I enjoy watching professional matches more now than ever.

Shuki said:

I have no problems with any changes that have been made so far. The more I play, the more I enjoy to watch. So I enjoy watching professional matches more now than ever.

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Wow, that must be so good for you, but it's pretty sh*tty for others!

ITTF should add another "dimension" in the world tour series to make it more interesting.. say 38mm ball in one country, 40mm in another, speed glue allowed, etc.. just a thought..

Suga D said:

Wow, that must be so good for you, but it's pretty sh*tty for others!

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It's shitty for others that I enjoy watching the game more once I've played more? or it's shitty for others that they don't like change?

Shuki said:

It's shitty for others that I enjoy watching the game more once I've played more? or it's shitty for others that they don't like change?

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The latter. As I said, it's nice you even enjoy the game more, but many people don't.
I know many sports are going through changes every once in a while, but in tabletennis these changes were a bit too much for the taste of many players, and some also even stopped playing, 'cause they think it's not their game anymore.
That's why i think Saive could be a good change for ITTF Chair, since he wants more stability and consolidation and less artificially promoted changes.

Today's game is shit... I was a spectator at WTTC 2007 and what a spectacle it was:
- long pips defence by JSH
- short pips defence by Hou
- blocking game by Oh Sang Eun or Samsonov
- Korean Penhold by RSM
- Chinese Penhold FH-oriented by Ma Lin
- Chinese RPB Penhold by Wang Hao
- two wing attack by Chuan
- slow spinny loops by Timo
All of these styles had a realistic chance of at least quarterfinals, hypothetically a medal.


Today???
The quality may be high, but you have seen one match between top players = you have seen it all. There is no need to watch a match between No. 20 and No. 60 - they will play the same as No. 10 or No. 5 but are simply not that good at it.

There were so many possibilities and variations in the past even among the Chinese:
Ma Long would usually lose to Wang Hao and could lose to Kong LH
Wang Hao would lose to Ma Lin
Ma Lin would lose to WLQ
WLQ would lose to Wang Hao

and others:
JSH may beat Ma Lin and some others
RSM could beat anybody on a good day
Timo would beat most except Ma Lin
Schlager surprised everyone etc.

The 40+ era is boring and dull. Stil fun to play, but boring to watch.

So before a tournament, there were so many possible outcomes.
Today?

Shuki said:

I have no problems with any changes that have been made so far. The more I play, the more I enjoy to watch. So I enjoy watching professional matches more now than ever.

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Suga D said:

Wow, that must be so good for you, but it's pretty sh*tty for others!

Click to expand...

Shuki said:

It's shitty for others that I enjoy watching the game more once I've played more? or it's shitty for others that they don't like change?

Click to expand...

Suga D said:

The latter. As I said, it's nice you even enjoy the game more, but many people don't.
I know many sports are going through changes every once in a while, but in tabletennis these changes were a bit too much for the taste of many players, and some also even stopped playing, 'cause they think it's not their game anymore.
That's why i think Saive could be a good change for ITTF Chair, since he wants more stability and consolidation and less artificially promoted changes.

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I think Shuki was just trying to put a positive perspective on things. Often that can be useful.

It true that it is lame how often ITTF has decide to make weird and arbitrary rule changes that don't really seem like they are in the best interest of the sport. They do change the rules an awful lot. But it is nice to know that the sport is still an amazing sport and there have been positive effects from some of the rule changes.

Personally, I feel like, in many ways ITTF has dropped the ball on so many fronts, particularly the 40+ Poly balls. How different they are from factory to factory brand to brand; how some are outrageously bad and still have 3 star approval: it is like ITTF have been ignoring just how bad the situation is.

However, a few of the better 40+ balls are pretty good and are decent to play with. And the ball is enough slower and enough less spinny that it seems like, in the pro division there are more rallies that are longer and harder to win. It is true that the winning style, more and more seems to be the traditional offensive play style and certain styles have suffered as a result. But there have been some positive results from the rule changes. Look how good the top table tennis athletes are these days. It really is amazing.

And no matter what, this sport is soooooooooo fun to play and I do really enjoy watching it as well. Even though the common person who does not play TT may not understand certain things when they watch, and even though the broadcast format the ITTF uses leaves a lot to be desired like, better camera angles, more camera angles, better coverage, stream quality, film quality....the sport is, nevertheless an awesome sport to watch and get involved in.

And without question a real player like Saive as ITTF president would be a great thing for the sport because the guys who run the show at ITTF have really dropped the ball in so many ways. If you think about it, considering how bad the ITTF has been about so many things over the past 20 years, it is pretty impressive that despite this, TT is still such an amazing sport. Imagine how good it could be with a president who would really make the sport better for the players.

So, definitely, Saive for President.

The game is definitely more athletic and fun to watch than 20 years ago. Waldner was an artist yes but the overall level of play back then was far inferior than today. Hidden serves made the game extremely boring compared to the modern era's topspin rallies

I dont know if Im expressing it correctly so I will better give an example.

In today's tt you can sit and enjoy no40 WR vs no110 and still enjoy the game and the upsets are definitely more.

Back then nr 40 vs 110 was probably total annihilation, with very very few exceptions. Players didnt even understand what serve was coming to them.

Serve - receive out

Serve - bad receive 3rd ball kill

Serve - bad receive 3rd ball kill, weak block and then smash. Those were 80 % of the points I would say, much more boring. The game back then was interesting only when familiar players fought each other so you could see some rallies.

Search and watch full matches LGL or waldner against a random no 50 guy and you will get my point

If you cant find any then just watch LGL full match against anyone, at least in my eyes the game was definitely more boring overall.

the problem is that the only people who are truly evolving and revolutionising the game are the Chinese, and the Chinese naturally play boring (lol) , so they constantly find ways to make the game even more boring by finding super effective ways to finish off the rally, and no one can do anything about it...and then the europeans copy the chinese, except a lot of them end being like cheap imitations of the chinese without any finesse or originality and wonder why they keep on getting pummelled. it's easier said than done, but the only way to bring a little more diversity to the game is innovation from the europeans, creating new styles and techniques like waldner and co. did.

I actually think that a super fast and spinny ball might be the answer, so like in tennis rallies happen almost immediately and from away the table, reducing the emphasis on boring short to short game and short services and placing more emphasis on away from the table originality, like sidespin variations, fake shots, etc. so that spectators can understand it better. but i dont know. i dont have the ability or smarts to make my own table tennis ball...

but back to the problem. everyone who watches table tennis wants diversity, but how about the one playing the unique style? how is it fair that, if this is the case, that they play a style which is naturally limited compared to everyone else? they have a family to feed, and need a roof over their heads as well.

just my 2 cents though.

no aggro please.

EDIT: the reason why I think a faster ball would mean more far away from the table rallies is that the greater speed would mean that the penetrating power of loops would be a lot greater, naturally forcing players away from the table.

I am speaking of last 20 years, not 1980s...
Simply watch some matches between e.g. 1997 and 2007 and you can see how the game was more entartaining, more unpredictable and less dominated by the Chinese.

e.g. Kreanga vs. Ma Lin World Cup final 2004
Joo 2003, e.g. WTTC or Joo vs. Kong LH 2003
Ryu SM 2004 Olympics or 2007 Worlds
Belgium beating China 3:0
Liu GL being beaten by CHILA!!!
Ma Lin by Tang Peng!

In the past, there were many styles and the player who could force his style to the opponent won. Today, there is only one style and the player who executes this style best always wins. The probability of FZD or Ma Long losing to someone other than eachother or XX on a good day is practically 0. Playing style is practically 1. Material variation is practically 0 = carbon blade + tenergy/tacky rubber.

P.S. I quite like watching the Polish league where there are many 30+ Asian players and you still get variety and unpredictability - chinese penhold, korean penhold, short pips, long pips, blocking game, two-wing topspin attack...

I personally think that there’s just not enough “variation” in the game to make the games interesting, it became monotonous to watch for the non-enthusiasts. The (top) players have found the best/most efficient way to play the game, and almost perfected it. You could easily see who is better, so you can predict the outcome most of the time. There’s just too few players in the top ranks who has unique technique/playing style. So yeah, throw back in the 38mm ball..

Then again, Table Tennis is still one of the most popular games worldwide (definitely in the top 10).. and if only the west could dominate it then there will be a lot more exposure in the media.

Ciao!

Now the question is,

What rule to implement to give the dwindling style an edge to fought back against looper?

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Shuki said:

I have no problems with any changes that have been made so far. The more I play, the more I enjoy to watch. So I enjoy watching professional matches more now than ever.

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I'm with you shuki!