Forehand loop internal shoulder rotation

Dominikk85 said:

Definitely sidespin on that massive bomb. Is the shot Süß demonstrates also sidespin?

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Yes, if you look closely you may see that he brushes the ball on the side, not just over the top. The balls also curves away a bit from him.

Ilia Minkin said:

This shot is also known as "Fade" and a standard technique for high level players.

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What Ilia said first is what you guys want to pay attention to. If you just say sidespin you won't be entirely wrong. But if you just said sidespin, that usually means the standard sidespin which, when there is a lot of sidespin, would also get called a hook.

When you contact a little in front of your body while trying to contact the back and top, you should get a little of the outside of the ball.

When this more standard sidespin is done to an extreme, then you have a true hook. But normal looping technique should produce a certain amount of that sidespin that curves deeper to the FH.

However, the sidespin in this video is contact on the inside of the ball and to pull in during contact. That creates fade or inside-out sidespin. So this FH sidespin curves towards the opponent's BH side.

You can see him pull in on the ball and that is part of why the different followthrough.




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@UpSideDownCarl

To me, a hook is a sidespin shot with the forehand that curves to my LEFT, as a right-hander. Grabbing the ball from the outside-right side with my wrist down. Is that right?

Dominikk85 said:

Here is a video of my forehand against a self made return board.

Is that played wrong? It is relatively fast but I think it only has like mild topspin and is relatively flat trajectory.

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I am not going to say anything about right and wrong. But I will say that, from the standpoint of table tennis technique, I am not sure that many coaches would say that is good technique....or, um, let me qualify that: the ones where you swing and you can see the racket behind your head from the other side on the followthrough, no good coach I know would say anything good about that. But a lot that isn't so great for TT can be said about it.

The two times you feed the ball, the feed stroke is better than the one after when you try to rip the ball. One detail to notice: there is one where the ball comes back into the picture, but the ball goes long. If you just watch at regular speed, as that ball is over the table about to go you, YOU ARE SO NOT READY. If you freeze it while the ball is over the white line, you are ABSOLUTELY NOT READY. If you were playing someone decent, you would be toast. And that shot will come back. And how often do you get spoon fed a ball to crush like that?

Ideally in TT, your stroke is finished and you are reset and ready for the next shot as your shot lands on the opponent's side of the table. This is so you can watch the ball into the opponent's racket and move to the next ball.

You are very very very very late resetting. That you are not reset when the ball is passing the table on your side speaks to how late you are.

What about getting 2 or 3 coaching sessions? You will learn a lot. Or what about seeking out a real TT club and seeing how you do against club level players.

I would avoid leaning back like that and avoid extending the arm so far to your side on the followthrough. From personal experience, those things will eventually make your upper back give out from all the twisting and turning: especially with how hard you're swinging.

I think people would tell you to try to finish in front of your face for a start. I don't think that would be bad.

This video shows the FH topspin decently. Notice the basic followthrough, where he ends the stroke most of the time. Also notice how you are standing upright. Freitas is pretty low.


See if you can make a video where you hit 15-20 of those FH shots in a row with the backboard. See what happens when you try. Film it when you can do it successfully.

Here is another video:

Here. This one is good too.

UpSideDownCarl said:

Here. This one is good too.

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Yeah, very good stance and stroke, I saw several times that vid

Note, none of those videos are showing the racket wrapping around your neck on the followthrough.

Archosaurus said:

I would avoid leaning back like that and avoid extending the arm so far to your side on the followthrough. From personal experience, those things will eventually make your upper back give out from all the twisting and turning: especially with how hard you're swinging.

I think people would tell you to try to finish in front of your face for a start. I don't think that would be bad.

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Great points, right on target. Indeed, if you fix these two things: 1) leaning forward instead of back 2) Finishing in front of your head, you will have a decent stroke. Higher finish will give more arc, spin and safety. I'd also slowed it down and relaxed your arm instead of muscling the ball. Like a bear

Dominikk85 said:

Yes that follow through really takes too long, if the ball comes back fast I'm not ready to hit it.

In tennis that really wasn't a problem since the opponent is like 20 meters away.

Thanks for the videos, so basically the racket needs to be stopped in front of the head?

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UpSideDownCarl said:

From a mechanics standpoint, part of why there is less shoulder rotation in table tennis has to do with the fact that the followthrough in table tennis stops at about the midline of the body and the followthrough in tennis goes all the way across the body.

In tennis the reset is not as critical because the player has plenty of time to reset. In table tennis, the opponent can be as close as 9 feet away so the reset is very important which means the stroke needs not to go too far past the midline of the body on followthrough or the reset cannot be fast enough.

For you to get the racket speed and still complete the stroke at the midline, the mechanics of the stroke has to be different and the closing of the angle of the elbow is more important to racket speed. And you can't use quite as much internal rotation of the shoulder as a result of the point of the followthrough.

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Answers to your question were actually given on the first page of your thread. It is possible you didn't understand them or something. Not a big deal. Go back and read the thread again. There were many people who gave good answers on the first page. Read Ilia's comments. Read NextLevel's comments. I think one of the videos I posted above I also posted on the first page.

If you want to learn table tennis technique, you may as well start learning table tennis technique. Start looking at some instructional TT videos. Go to a real club with tournament level players. Find a coach, take a few lessons.

The technique you are trying to use will not work against a decent player for several reasons:

1) It will be hard to get a decent player to feed you a high, slow meatball like the one you are feeding yourself.
2) When the ball comes back, which it will if you are playing someone decent, you will not be anywhere close to ready for it.
3) Because you are swinging across you will likely not be getting much spin.
4) The way you are standing, the only thing you are ready for is someone feeding you a high slow easy ball.

However, if you don't care about playing TT well, keep doing what you are doing. It looks fun. And it is really a lot like a tennis stroke.

Have fun whether you choose to try and understand the advice given so far or not.

NextLevel said:

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And this is a great video. And yes, it explains all the same things in a unique and creative way.

If you are ready for understanding why, in TT, the elbow is the pivot instead of the shoulder, try to learn it and see for yourself.

In tennis the shoulder is the pivot. In TT, the reset needs to be much faster, and the ball is much smaller and lighter. So the elbow is the pivot for MUCH FASTER recovery. And this also gives you faster racket speed.

Until your body learns the fundamentals presented in this video, and gets them into muscle memory, it will be hard for you to feel why this is how a TT stroke actually works. The good news is, you won't be alone. Many amateur players who also played tennis think they can simply apply the tennis swing to TT. When you plateau, hopefully you will now understand, at least theoretically, why.

You should not be leaning back at all , you should be leaning forward . The stroke should finish at the top of your forehead , not across your body . You should be a little more side on and you should let the ball come to you and try to hold the ball to your ball in the rubber and sling shot it out ... not reach you and hit the ball ....

Dominikk85 said:

Thanks for the videos.

Is that better?

Tried to finish more in front of face and lean back less.

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