Looking for help choosing new blade in off- region

OhWell · Feb 27, 2018

belugma said:
Primoarc- was one of the choices to go since the beginning.
But now after those blades were mentioned, I want to get the 'best' in terms of flexibility, feeling, etc. and vibrations. I know everyone is different and feels different. As I said, I probably will not like vibrations because I only have played with little since I got the current blade.

I wanted to replace the rubbers anyway with the blade (I know, only replace one at a time..)
Rubbers I wrote down for the FH were:
Xiom Vega Pro (spinny, high catapult); Nexy Karis M (linearity+control and very high durability - 'incoming topspins are welcomed');
For BH: Xiom Intro, Xiom Omega V Euro and H3-50 37° Prov. (although it is rather for people with a better backhand?)
But those were originally planned for a rubber recommendation thread

It is safe to assume that the advice posted by people like Carl reflects consideration of all of the blades mentioned in the thread, along with a number of other blades, and of the concerns you have been voicing all along. People don't always have time to write a dissertation on all of the considerations that go into their advice..

About rubbers. IMO, for a shake hand 2 wing looper, (the default offensive style for shake hand these days) it is often a bad idea to get different rubbers for forehand and backhand while your technique is still evolving rapidly. (There are many exceptions; but exceptions should be made after careful consideration, and for the right reasons..) Thing is, using the same rubbers on both sides gives you a TON of valuable feedback on your technique's progress on each side. It's an incredibly simple way to boost how much you will learn and improve from your time spent practicing TT. It's almost like doubling the info you get on the correlation between the feel of the contact with the ball, and the result.

About specific rubbers: again, don't assume that people's advice didn't take into account many more options than what they mention. The one thing I'd add is that - since you bring it up yourself I suspect you don't mind the price - Karis M is most likely a great choice.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 27, 2018

I think your EJ virus is suffering from the idea of wanting information on way too many blades and rubbers than could possibly be useful to your development.

Listening to the advice of random forum members can get you in trouble. Unless you plan to try every combination of every blade and rubber you have been advised to get, the well intentioned offerings of advice will sadly miss the mark since everyone feels and likes different things.

If this is really about you trying to find something you like, go to a club and try as many setups as you can.

If it is about wanting something to help you improve, get the first setup Fabian recommended.

But you are wasting your time expecting to find the information you want from people who are simply telling you what they use or like.

So many people use things that are not ideal for their games and then recommend the same to others.

Guys like Fabian and thomas.pong have given you good info. Simplify it and just get a blade and rubbers.

I could list another 50 blades and another 30 rubbers that would all be fine for you. But then you would still be confused.

Get what Fabian said in his first post.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

belugma · Feb 27, 2018

OhWell said:
It is safe to assume that the advice posted by people like Carl reflects consideration of all of the blades mentioned in the thread, along with a number of other blades, and of the concerns you have been voicing all along. People don't always have time to write a dissertation on all of the considerations that go into their advice..

I know

Its just that I make a science out of everything. I try to always get the best for my 'needs'.

About rubbers. IMO, for a shake hand 2 wing looper, (the default offensive style for shake hand these days) it is often a bad idea to get different rubbers for forehand and backhand while your technique is still evolving rapidly. (There are many exceptions; but exceptions should be made after careful consideration, and for the right reasons..) Thing is, using the same rubbers on both sides gives you a TON of valuable feedback on your technique's progress on each side. It's an incredibly simple way to boost how much you will learn and improve from your time spent practicing TT. It's almost like doubling the info you get on the correlation between the feel of the contact with the ball, and the result.

Interesting, I've never thought about this way.

About specific rubbers: again, don't assume that people's advice didn't take into account many more options than what they mention. The one thing I'd add is that - since you bring it up yourself I suspect you don't mind the price - Karis M is most likely a great choice.

Yeah, I did read a lot of experiences with the rubber, i.e. from Baal, that the rubber is really great.
I found it yesterday or so for 35€ per sheet. I thought that would be an acceptable price (35€ was my limit) and now I can't seem to find it anymore.

UpSideDownCarl said:
I think your EJ virus is suffering from the idea of wanting information on way too many blades and rubbers than could possibly be useful to your development.

UpSideDownCarl said:
Listening to the advice of random forum members can get you in trouble. Unless you plan to try every combination of every blade and rubber you have been advised to get, the well intentioned offerings of advice will sadly miss the mark since everyone feels and likes different things.

As mentioned above, I tend to do a science out of everything

Thats the reason I ask for as my experiences, differences between multiple products.

So, a Primoarc- between 85g and 88g in Euro oder JP version? With Vega Intro or Karis M. Is there a noticeable difference between the sponge thicknesses, just go max.?

Carl05 · Feb 27, 2018

Hello, i would like to add a recommendation.
Dont buy nothing that you cant try before by yourself, normally we have a idea about our play style that is closest to the way we wish to play than what we actually can really do.Ask your coacher, if you dont have one around play with your club mates bats and take your time, dont waste your money if the idea is to go faster.Because a slow blade or rubber isnt that bad after all (you can improve your strokes a lot with that lack of help from the equipment).
Sorry for my english, i try my best.
Kind regards.

OhWell · Feb 28, 2018

Carl05 said:
Dont buy nothing that you cant try before by yourself, normally we have a idea about our play style that is closest to the way we wish to play than what we actually can really do..

For the most part this is fair. One important exception, IMO, is when a less experienced player is looking for a baseline setup to build well rounded skills with. Thing is, there are tons of factors that can make a less experienced player think they like a given setup, even though it turns out to be very bad for their development. For that purpose, absent an informed coach, advice from the more knowledgeable folks on here about good middle of the road setups to build technique with is arguably a very good way to go.

jawien · Feb 28, 2018

belugma said:
[...] As mentioned above, I tend to do a science out of everything Thats the reason I ask for as my experiences, differences between multiple products. [...]

Welcome in the "club" my man - have a donut! A long way in front of you ... : )

I play in a league. This season I basically played every match with a bit different bh rubber. Once or two I even had a different blade. I think this is why my performance in general is a little lower than it should be, because of this constant change.

Carl, OhWell, Fabian and others are truly speaking words of wisdom.

What helped me a little, was to have one base setup and never (or at least rarely) change it. Let it stay, don't remove rubbers too fast, so when you try something new you can always go back to your good old paddle. You'll see it will happen most of the time.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 28, 2018

If you were actually “making a science out of this” you would go to a club and get every person you could to lend you there blade to try. And over years you would end up figuring what range of blades actually work for you and same with the rubbers.

But based on the info we have about your playing, the blade and rubbers that will actually help you improve your technique the fastest has been suggested. [emoji2]

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

belugma · Feb 28, 2018

UpSideDownCarl said:
If you were actually “making a science out of this” you would go to a club and get every person you could to lend you there blade to try. And over years you would end up figuring what range of blades actually work for you and same with the rubbers.

True

I will definetly try to get my hands on some rackets in my current 'club'. And at the store I will go to.
When I get something I will definetly stick to it. So EJ after this one is very limited

About the Primoarc-, does it matter if Euro or JP version? I wanted to seal the blade with a very thin layer aswell or is it not necessary with Butterfly blades? I did read the blades already come with a thin coating of seal.

Rubbers:
I would go with Vega Pro and Vega Intro, but two different rubbers wouldn't be ideal as someone mentioned. But wouldn't two Vega Intro be a downgrade? I did read that it is a beginner rubber coming from classics like Sriver. And as I already played with T64.. Another option are two Karis M's, but I thought I had a shop where they were listed for 35€ each. Apparently I didn't look right. Where would be the cheapest store to get them?
Which thickness for the rubbers?

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 28, 2018

I think you are off in your assessment of the weight issue as well.

I can only say that, for years people tried to put a number on blade weights and tell me what I should use. Over the years I have found that if I am using a blade that weighs under 90 grams, it is too light for me. I like blades that are around 92-97 grams. Basing your idea of what the right weight is for you on what someone else said, is kind of like deciding what kind of food you like to eat by reading about it on the internet.

Rubbers: If you are dumping balls into the net with a dead old rubber, then you need something more basic.

If you know how what your BH and FH need are different, then you could get that. If you don't, it is also like deciding you like a particular food because you read about it on the internet.

If you don't know, specifically, exactly what you need for your BH that is different than your FH, then you may as well get the same rubber for both sides.

Thickness is also a choice. I like bold coffee. I like the stuff that really gives you a good kick. Is that what you should get?

I want to get the best shoes possible. What is the right size for me? Which size do you think I should get?

Oh, I almost forgot. Blade sealing is also a choice. I like doing it. I know people who prefer to leave their blades unsealed. But most blades do not come sealed. The ones that do, you kind of know about it.

yoass · Feb 28, 2018

As for me, I find it hard enough to describe what I like, even harder to poinpoint what I need. And sometimes I like things that are not what I need, and that truism needs a reminder every now and then.

It's tempting to equate what I like, or need, with what would be advisable for somebody else. While there will be some, or even many, for which my needs and preferences are aligned reasonably to theirs, that fallacy is to be avoided.

So I really do think everybody should be a close-to-the table looper with an aggressive rally finish, use a sealed DHS N301 blade, with H3N smurf sponge boosted heavily with sasparilla on FH and Tenergy 64 max on backhand, dressed in size M Lao Wa shorts, Tibhar Check shirt (size M), and these wonderful new Nexy shoes in size 10. Because that's just simply the best, and that's the way it is.

OhWell · Feb 28, 2018

belugma said:
True I will definetly try to get my hands on some rackets in my current 'club'. And at the store I will go to.
When I get something I will definetly stick to it. So EJ after this one is very limited

About the Primoarc-, does it matter if Euro or JP version? I wanted to seal the blade with a very thin layer aswell or is it not necessary with Butterfly blades? I did read the blades already come with a thin coating of seal.

Rubbers:
I would go with Vega Pro and Vega Intro, but two different rubbers wouldn't be ideal as someone mentioned. But wouldn't two Vega Intro be a downgrade? I did read that it is a beginner rubber coming from classics like Sriver. And as I already played with T64.. Another option are two Karis M's, but I thought I had a shop where they were listed for 35€ each. Apparently I didn't look right. Where would be the cheapest store to get them?
Which thickness for the rubbers?

Vega Pro is a deceptively finicky rubber. It’s not exactly hard to control, because the speed stays manageable throughout its range. (So I agree that strictly speaking, it doesn’t have high catapult.) But esp in terms of spin, its behavior is not very intuitive, arguably even messy.

What’s wrong with 2x Vega intro as Carl and Fabian recommend?

brodolio · Feb 28, 2018

In my experience, the bad side of flexible blades : when you start to push harder, they become a bit unpredictable (because of their elasticity).

If you are an intermediate player, I would give a try to an ALC blade. Not the Timo Boll or Viscaria (stiff and fast).
But what about the Freitas?
It's really really nice. It has the power and the consistency of the carbon blades + tons of control and wood feeling.
CONS : it's quite expensive

jawien · Feb 28, 2018

brodolio said:
In my experience, the bad side of flexible blades : when you start to push harder, they become a bit unpredictable (because of their elasticity).

As much as I like your comment, please don't mess with Belugma's head : ) Let him figure it out for himself.
Primorac is the blade to start. Euro or Jap - at this stage - he can just throw a dice.

If Belugma really knew what type of game he wants to play, I would be safe to say: if you want to control the game more go with the Jap. If you want to attack a little more, go with the Euro version. Now he has to answer this question himself or send us a video or just really throw a dice ... ; )

oh almost forgot too ... don't seal or lacquer, no need to.

belugma · Feb 28, 2018

UpSideDownCarl said:
I think you are off in your assessment of the weight issue as well.

I will definetly take my current blade weight into consideration when looking for the new one.

Thickness is also a choice. I like bold coffee. I like the stuff that really gives you a good kick. Is that what you should get?

I don't know if it says anything, but I often feel the ball hitting through the rubber against the wood.

Oh, I almost forgot. Blade sealing is also a choice. I like doing it. I know people who prefer to leave their blades unsealed. But most blades do not come sealed. The ones that do, you kind of know about it.

Yeah, after ripping out some splinters of my old Boll All+ I wanna seal the new blade. Also because of the WBG which will probably make the blade worse over time. I would want to use MinWax wipe-on-poly thin layer, as you showed in a thread of yours, but its not available in the EU so I must look for an alternative. Another option would be to use hair spray

I think that was mentioned some times aswell on this forum here.

OhWell said:
What’s wrong with 2x Vega intro as Carl and Fabian recommend?

Nothing, I just thought it would be a downgrade coming from T64 on FH. Also I read quite a lot about the Intro being a 'classic' rubber for the first experiences with tensor technology.

jawien said:
Primorac is the blade to start. Euro or Jap - at this stage - he can just throw a dice.

I probably will go with the JP version because of apparently better build quality and a better touch.

oh almost forgot too ... don't seal or lacquer, no need to.

Why is that? I would seal it, because of splintering and WBG.

I was just in a tt store and out of blade list, they only had the primoarc-,Korbel and Infinity VPS in concave. The primoarc handle was alright. Exactly like my old Boll+ I had before my current setup. The Infinity handle was better.
They had one primoarc for testing which I will be doing in some days, just to get an idea how the blade is. I know it is different from a new one because of its age and how many times rubber were put on it. Maybe I get to try the Infinity aswell.
How do the Infinity and the Primoarc compare? And does the Infinity still has quality issues like plies delaminate after changing the rubber the first time?

OhWell · Feb 28, 2018

belugma said:
Yeah, after ripping out some splinters of my old Boll All+ I wanna seal the new blade. Also because of the WBG which will probably make the blade worse over time. I would want to use MinWax wipe-on-poly thin layer, as you showed in a thread of yours, but its not available in the EU so I must look for an alternative.

I must say, some of the blade sealants sold by TT manufacturers go on way too thick, making it hard for rubbers to even stick with the less extreme glues. It's hard to understate how much better Wipe-on poly is compared to some of that junk.

If you can't find an equivalent, you can easily make your own with (a) oil based poly finish (I prefer satin finish) + (b) mineral spirits in a ratio of about 1:1.

OhWell · Feb 28, 2018

belugma said:
Nothing, I just thought it would be a downgrade coming from T64 on FH. Also I read quite a lot about the Intro being a 'classic' rubber for the first experiences with tensor technology.

If your Tenergy is worn out, it will likely be an upgrade. Being a bit more like a classic rubber should make the intro less confusing in the short game, and when going from lower velocity shots to higher velocity.

perham · Feb 28, 2018

The fact is that there are two types of people: those who buy a nice blade and and use it for a good while and are contend with it, and those who are always curious what else is out there. For the first group, the bat is a means to play the game; either to improve (thus looking for the bat that is right for them), or to enjoy (thus looking for the bat that they enjoy the most). The second group looks at the bat as a goal by itself: a source of joy and satisfaction. For them, exploring and understanding different blades and rubbers is not an endeavor to achieve a certain goal, but a goal in and of itself. The latter group is often called equipment junkies. They are often looked at with pity and resentment, yet make no mistake, they are a proud race who would stand tall against demeaning looks of the first group and continue their journey of curiosity and thirst for knowledge. If you belong to the first group, just get what Carl told you. If you belong to the second group, however, God may have mercy on your soul, for the lust for new equipment is insatiable in nature! Choose wisely.

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UpSideDownCarl · Feb 28, 2018

The equipment junkie part is totally fine. I have to love and admire a guy like rokphish who has a few 100 blades. Nothing wrong with that. And he doesn’t have to ask, “which one should I get?” He just went and got them all.

But when someone says they are on a budget and they are making their brain hurt with all the options they are considering trying, then sticking to something solid and simple is worthwhile.

@ belugma, Stiga handles are awesome. If you don’t care that the blade is very easy to damage and break, then you should think about this:

The Primorac helps you get A LOT more dwell time. Which will help you improve your technique a lot faster.

The Infinity is delicate and easy to break. And the things Stiga has done to make the surface harder cause it to feel crisp. But hollow. And cause the ball to rebound off it much faster than I think you would want.

The blades are about the same speed. Infinity a little faster. But the Infinity allows you way less dwell time. So, requires higher level technique to already be in place. And does not enhance your learning curve anywhere near as much and would cause you to get considerably less spin.

The

Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

Ply construction of the Primorac really is valuable for developing better touch, feel, spin and power.

I think that ply construction is likely to help you improve more than any other ply construction.

So if you got something other than a Primorac, choose the Korbel. [emoji2]

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langel · Mar 1, 2018

I agree about Primorac being a good choise.
At the same time I would prefer to advise Xiom Solo - for me its the most universal blade, allowing a player to develop skills and to find in what direction to search later.
For rubbers I would advice Vega Europe DF over Intro. For me it has a more linear change of speed and has a more spin. I feel the Intro uncomfortably slow at close distance and the lack of spin would stumble development - so I would advise it to a very beginner only, not to a developing player.

KJA · Mar 1, 2018

Is it Big speed comparison between primorac and Korbel? (is primorac to slow?)

I am thinking of a new blade, wanted the Korbel blade for its ply layers and looping characteristics but don't like its oversize headsize. (or, I am unsure how that feels). What about Hadraw VK? It is 157x150 mm with 5-7/8 mm thickness which i want. What's the composition?

I have a allwood Yasaka Extra but it is too soft and slow and also a carbon blade which is too fast and uncontrollable. Thinking therefore on primorac but don't want it to be like the YE. Want something in between.

Sorry for borrowing the thread but find it relevant to ask the speed difference between Korbel and primorac because that what you recommend him.

Looking for help choosing new blade in off- region

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