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I think it’s better to drill other things like bh flick against under, Fh flick against under, hitting wide forehands with good footwork or bh to fh transitions. At our level, people who open up first are in control of the rally.
I think there’s more takeaways from a match like that instead of tactics. If he pushes your underspin short serve and then you pushed back short and then you gave him the opportunity to push you fast to the bh, this means he was trying to exploit bh weakness or footwork or both.
another thing to consider is could you have flipped the 3rd ball? And flip it to somewhere where he’s in a bad spot?
assuming that he read your service correctly- could you have done the opposite, make it so that it looks like under but it’s actually no spin?
Strategies or Sequences as I like to call them are points that have been drilled extensively that are meant to give you a point. My most used is bh flip/ open up depending on how long or short the serve is and then pivot fh.
I agree. For some time long pushes were a no no in high level table tennis and it was about always attacking first but with the 40 mm ball players got so good at counter looping that they are daring again to long push and let the opponent open up and go for a strong counter attack.
But at lower levels counter looping is still very tough and it makes a lot of sense to open up first unless you have an opponent who has lots of trouble with looping backspin.
But against a guy several hundred points better than you strategy doesn't really matter because his shot quality is higher on every stroke so he can beat you with every strategy.
Maybe that dude didn't even use his A game but purposely played him using his B game to work on something or just make it more fun rallies rather than just going third ball kill all the time which is pretty boring against a bad opponent
Maybe, I really don't know what the lesson was from this match was.
If I was you, I will think that -
1. why is he able to push me all around?
2. how good is my push against his?
3. Can I force an unforced error if I push to him
4. Am I pushing always to one place? Why?
5. Am I moving my legs against the push?
6. Where am I getting trapped, is it just a push on all place or is it also varying in depth?
7. How much backspin is there on the push? Can I anticipate in advance based on his playing patterns? Like if I serve a hard backspin on backhand then what happens? Where is he pushing to - my backhand, my middle or my forehand?
8. Where is he parked after pushing? Can I push him to a corner and open the table for an attack or a fast push?
Remember, your push serves as a oxygen for your attack. This is especially true when you play against the high level players. If your push, block and counters are not good then there is not much point in practice big topspins.
Maybe, I really don't know what the lesson was from this match was.
The only lesson from this match is he's a lot better than you.
When you play with too big of a level gap you shouldn't really take away anything to work on. It's interesting just to see how good players are. But when you are effectively dead off the serve and receive every point it's not like a real match.
The ideal range to play is from 200 points above to 200 below your rating. And you need to play down as well as up. Being rock-solid against lower-rated players is the surest sign of your level rising.
Michael Zhuang;368898
When I serve: He will just push to all 4 corners of the table with short or long pushes. It completely puts me on the defensive. It feels like the table is very long when playing against him.
When he serves: If I push long to him, then he just hits a powerful loop. If I push short to him, then he just uses his 4 corners strategy again.
Basically I feel like there is no place for me to return to him and no place to serve to him.
On your serve, the "easiest" thing to do is to serve short topspin, preferably to the forehand. I would say 90% of players at 2000 are just terrible at this. Also, it will eliminate the pushing and short balls entirely (unless they make 2500 level pushes). They will have to flick the ball, and you will only have to worry about backhand, forehand, and middle. Even better if you serve it with the lefty's sidespin. If they decide not to flick the ball, you will a decently high ball to attack.
If you don't know how to serve short topspin with sidespin, you should definitely add this to your skillset. You will need lots of "tools" like this as you try to improve at table tennis.
On his serve, you need to drill some short forehand push, long backhand push combinations. This is a very common combination and is something you should definitely get used to because other high level players will do this too. Then, you need to drill the other 2 as well, short backhand and long forehand, although this is less common. Once you are confident in this, you now are able to short push against his serve.
As for pushing long, you need to get better at blocking. You didn't say anything at all about how you miss your blocks against his loops. You just say it's powerful, which tells me you didn't even think about it, and probably didn't understand it either. There are many things you can do to make their loop less powerful and increase your success at blocking. You can push very wide and you will almost always expect a loop in the same direction. Pushing as low as possible is a great way to prevent the opponent from looping fast, and a great way to earn "passive income" in points throughout a match (this requires you to read his serve perfectly though). Don't feel pressured to push spinny or fast(unless it is consistently winning), just do so when it is convenient (I find trying to push spinny or fast when it is inconvenient to do so just loses you the point). I find spending effort into reading the opponent's serve and pushing low is way more important than trying to pushing any kind of length or spin.
Reading his loop as best you can will tell you how to block and increase your chances as well. Whether he brushed the ball or impacted it, if he did brush, how fast did he brush, how high is his loop's trajectory, how deep will the shot go, where will the ball be when it reaches my hitting zone, is the ball curving: these are some mental questions you can ask when you practice blocking. You want to look for this information in the game so you know what loop is coming. Keeping your hand up, and looking at the ball, and even rotating my head down when the ball lands on the table really helped me. Personally, the things I look for in my opponent's loop is how fast their arm moved, the max height of the loop as it crosses the net, and where the ball will be when it enters my blocking area.
Maybe some of the better blockers here can explain other tips, since I am not a blocker.
Aside from the fact that you were outclassed, there are a couple of things you can do or learn how to do.
On your serve, the "easiest" thing to do is to serve short topspin, preferably to the forehand. I would say 90% of players at 2000 are just terrible at this. Also, it will eliminate the pushing and short balls entirely (unless they make 2500 level pushes). They will have to flick the ball, and you will only have to worry about backhand, forehand, and middle. Even better if you serve it with the lefty's sidespin. If they decide not to flick the ball, you will a decently high ball to attack.
If you don't know how to serve short topspin with sidespin, you should definitely add this to your skillset. You will need lots of "tools" like this as you try to improve at table tennis.
On his serve, you need to drill some short forehand push, long backhand push combinations. This is a very common combination and is something you should definitely get used to because other high level players will do this too. Then, you need to drill the other 2 as well, short backhand and long forehand, although this is less common. Once you are confident in this, you now are able to short push against his serve.
As for pushing long, you need to get better at blocking. You didn't say anything at all about how you miss your blocks against his loops. You just say it's powerful, which tells me you didn't even think about it, and probably didn't understand it either. There are many things you can do to make their loop less powerful and increase your success at blocking. You can push very wide and you will almost always expect a loop in the same direction. Pushing as low as possible is a great way to prevent the opponent from looping fast, and a great way to earn "passive income" in points throughout a match (this requires you to read his serve perfectly though). Don't feel pressured to push spinny or fast(unless it is consistently winning), just do so when it is convenient (I find trying to push spinny or fast when it is inconvenient to do so just loses you the point). I find spending effort into reading the opponent's serve and pushing low is way more important than trying to pushing any kind of length or spin.
Reading his loop as best you can will tell you how to block and increase your chances as well. Whether he brushed the ball or impacted it, if he did brush, how fast did he brush, how high is his loop's trajectory, how deep will the shot go, where will the ball be when it reaches my hitting zone, is the ball curving: these are some mental questions you can ask when you practice blocking. You want to look for this information in the game so you know what loop is coming. Keeping your hand up, and looking at the ball, and even rotating my head down when the ball lands on the table really helped me. Personally, the things I look for in my opponent's loop is how fast their arm moved, the max height of the loop as it crosses the net, and where the ball will be when it enters my blocking area.
Maybe some of the better blockers here can explain other tips, since I am not a blocker.
I have been a blocker/counter attacker most of my TT journey (I'm near 50 now) and indeed you're confirming my thoughts here, mostly because I was influenced by Waldner and Samsonov in the 90's. We french and belgian people wanted to be Saive/Gatien clones, but then we found out that Waldner's and Samsonov strategies were way more rewarding because of our lower rankings. And that's why I gave up speed glue after a year, I was more effcient in the spin variation/block - ball placement variation and control/counter loop game than being the first attacking closed to the table. I called this "TTPG" Table Tennis Percentage Game, call it statistics if you want...
I first learned how to serve receive and push, then worked on my footwork to be able to attack, then only after that I increased my racket's speed... to finally decreasing it to be able to win over 1600 to even 1900 guys (a 1900 only once) in regular matches, I've beaten my Uni coach (2400) only once but in a 50 pts game with 3 pts lead per rank as a handicap, and those were not official match set-up at that time. And I had a 27 pts lead...
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/333/734/d88.jpg
Just info that may be worthwhile: 1600 rated player in European rating systems is probably a higher level than a USATT 2000 level player's level. 1600 may be more like 2200-2300 in USATT.1600 to even 1900 guys (a 1900 only once) in regular matches, I've beaten my Uni coach (2400) only once but in a 50 pts game with 3 pts lead per rank as a handicap, and those were not official match set-up at that time. And I had a 27 pts lead...
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/333/734/d88.jpg
Just info that may be worthwhile: 1600 rated player in European rating systems is probably a higher level than a USATT 2000 level player's level. 1600 may be more like 2200-2300 in USATT.
So, for what MZ is asking about, it is really not such a high level as what you are likely talking about. Still, level differentials are level differentials.
Michael, is there any way you can post video footage of a match vs someone you are fairly evenly matched against? You could put it in the Video safe thread so people don't randomly say dumb things like the last time you posted footage.
It just might help give people some context for your game skills. My memory is you have previously posted footage of you looping vs block.
For your information some of the ETTU federations uses the RC system, for example the DTTB (german one), but some does not like the FFTT (french one). That's why I know speak in RC system only so that everyone in the world can understand, for french players it's just adding 500 to be ranked as in RC system, our ranking starts at 500 pts FFTT and even with 100% match loss in a season you can't be ranked lower than this number, means 1000 RC so.
As Michael has already spoke in $ currency in other topics (your memory should have reminded you that too ), we can fairly think he's from the USA or any other country that adopted that currency, and as far as I know most of them uses the RC TT ranking system. Let's say for example he could be living in Micronesia ? well as ITTF Oceania ecently joined the RC system, even they "speak" RC and $
I guess I never gave too much thought to push quality and push placement. Obviously lower and spinnier is better, but I didn't feel like there's a clear path to improve your push(unlike a loop which has a more direct path to improvement).
When I think about it, I think 90% of my pushes are directly back in the same direction that it came, and 90% of pushes basically are towards the center of the opponent's table. I think I do this just to be safe and keep the ball in play. Against partner, it isn't a problem. But I noticed that against the 2000 guy, he just punished every single push that I did into the center.
I found that recently I made the most points by ensuring I never pushed twice in the same place or length and also by focusing on deeper pushes to either side.
I guess I never gave too much thought to push quality and push placement. Obviously lower and spinnier is better, but I didn't feel like there's a clear path to improve your push(unlike a loop which has a more direct path to improvement).
When I think about it, I think 90% of my pushes are directly back in the same direction that it came, and 90% of pushes basically are towards the center of the opponent's table. I think I do this just to be safe and keep the ball in play. Against partner, it isn't a problem. But I noticed that against the 2000 guy, he just punished every single push that I did into the center.
You can always master pushing on the bounce (very early).
You can also master the above by pushing or, or dropping short.
early = less time for the opponent.
but means more footwork for you and need to have quicker recovery
You can always master pushing on the bounce (very early).
You can also master the above by pushing or, or dropping short.
early = less time for the opponent.
but means more footwork for you and need to have quicker recovery
If somebody pushes underspin long to you, how can you drop shot it? That seems like a very low-percentage and risky shot. I would normally think to either push long in return or to do opening loop.