Anders Lind “get a professional racket ASAP”

[Lazer]

But knowing there are way better custom rackets for far cheaper, I see absolutely no point buying a premade unless your ultra casual barely knows the rules serves illegally type player

Thats easy for you to say. Not everybody wants to deal with (or knows how to) deal with the assembly process. That part can easily go wrong if you haven't done it before. I bet you can get cheap premades from ali as well...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[NetProphet]

I find this video ridiculous of course he will have problems to play with the "high school rackets", he is used to his top quality "race car". This doesn't mean anybody could use it. I don't think anybody is recommending a "high school" racket, but a higher end premade is fine to begin with, no point in spending too much money before you know what You will like...

Cheers
L-zr

But isn't the point of it don't waste your money on this rubbish, if you're serious just get something good to begin with?

There's a lot I wish I'd know when coming back, I'd have gone straight to something better and more suitable for the 40+ ball. Would have saved money money for sure and probably time also

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Not everyone is a fan of nuance, but it was a very nuanced discussion. Anders Lind says "get to professional racket as fast as possible" - what that means will vary from person to person, especially beginners or experienced beginners who have not progressed. I am convinced this kind of posting is about "any publicity is good publicity".

yep, I can sense the message, but I won't talk about backlash and using a real pro to justify some thread from previously - which has no clear link to the two (threads)

the "backlash thread" people talked about is Sriver, Mark V or cheaper Chinese rubbers. No one talked about pre-mades - or maybe it was some other forums....
end of the day, Sriver, Mark V or cheap Chinese rubbers are good enough says thousands of coaches around the world, some of them has been coaching way before some of us are born

My first reaction to this thread, was that if one didn't read your link to that "backlash thread", people would think Hu got backlash for telling people to not use pre-mades, and everyone is arguing Pre-mades is good enough.....and that Hu knows nothing about beginners..... So some really funny message I am sensing here, which seems to be untrue. I don't see anyone arguing pre-mades is the way to go

 

[NetProphet]

Thats easy for you to say. Not everybody wants to deal with (or knows how to) deal with the assembly process. That part can easily go wrong if you haven't done it before. I bet you can get cheap premades from ali as well...

Cheers
L-zr

You don't have to do the assembly, TT-eu, TT 11, Bribar and almost every place will do the assembly for you if you choose the parts.

What would you recommend (equipment wise) to a starting player who was serious about improving quickly?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Thats easy for you to say. Not everybody wants to deal with (or knows how to) deal with the assembly process. That part can easily go wrong if you haven't done it before. I bet you can get cheap premades from ali as well...

Cheers
L-zr

this is the easiest way to separate the hobby crowd from
the casual.

Hobby = self assemble is meditative, calming, soothing, food for the soul.

Casual = TT + beer + grilles buffalo wings & hot sauce.

 

[NetProphet]

end of the day, Sriver, Mark V or cheap Chinese rubbers are good enough says thousands of coaches around the world, some of them has been coaching way before some of us are born

Good enough for what tho?
Good enough to start with and to learn the basic strokes yes.
But at a certain point you notice the limitations of Sriver or Mark V etc.

But there are different coaches and different students. A 7 yr old child may find those rubbers fine for years but an adult beginner going into competition with their peers will probably notice those limitations (and this has been my experience) fairly quickly.
I'm talking specifically about Mark V to Rakza 7. It wasn't a technique thing either (not that I'm going to start telling you about technique) but same player, same technique, different racket itbwas night and day within a couple of weeks and the rubbers were the difference 🤷‍♂️
I will happily give my mark V racket to my 7 yr old and expect it to be fine for 3 yrs but with ambitious adults I would recommend something different.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Good enough for what tho?
Good enough to start with and to learn the basic strokes yes.

based on the content of the "backlash thread", based on beginners and no one is talking about anything further in that thread by the look of things.

I will happily give my mark V racket to my 7 yr old and expect it to be fine for 3 yrs but with ambitious adults I would recommend something different.

great, so you agree and that is also why Mark V is the number 7 top seller rubber in Japan

 

[Tyce]

My 10yo is using Rakza 7 (on a 5ply) and had zero problems adjusting to it after the slow, thin, dead 729 non-tackies that were on there before. Took her less than one training session to get the balls where she wanted them.

My 7yo has hit a few balls every now and then and I honestly see zero difference between him using his sister's bat, or one of the club's older battered ones with deader, slower rubber on it. However, with a premade, it's both harder to feel what you're doing, and less potential to handle the ball with.

Premades are 99% of the time either:
- " Carbon" in such a way that there's zero feeling, just a maximal sweet spot. Which is great for fun because if you manage to hit the ball, it will go to the other side.
- Crap quality wood in such a way that the results are plainly inconsistent
- Rubber that's made to last -> hard, tough, and doesn't really do much in terms of spin or feeling
- Rubber that's made to be cheap -> quick to degrade, some even have the feeling of being plastic right out of the box

Point being, a custom bat with at least slightly sensible choice of materials isn't "too much" for young kids to start with. It's hard to go over that limit if you stick to medium properties. At the same time, the potential of said bat is much, much higher, as well as the lifetime (of the blade, but arguably most medium rubbers too). I expect my daughter to have a good time training with this bat for 1,5y easily, maybe 2y before she needs a rubber change. If she's developed a good bit by then we might need to step up, but we'll see.
Now, the blade is 25-30 euros new (I got it second hand for much less) and the rubbers are ones I used for a few months. The investment cost is really not that high.

 

[Lazer]

But isn't the point of it don't waste your money on this rubbish, if you're serious just get something good to begin with?

There's a lot I wish I'd know when coming back, I'd have gone straight to something better and more suitable for the 40+ ball. Would have saved money money for sure and probably time also

There is good stuff among the premades as well. I am not talking about the "high school" rackets. I will usually recommend to buy the allwood Yasaka Mark V. You can probably get something similar from ali cheaper. But the point is that an higher end premade is perfect for a beginner.

Btw. Mark V still has one of the best top sheets in the market...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[mocker88]

Yeah. I think this video is misleading in many ways. Of course, if you are one of the best players in the world, you can't play the same with a bad premade bat or a medium advanced one as you do with your tailor made bat that you practice with for 6 hours a day.

You have to look at what a player needs and what he/she is capable of using. You need the right gear to develop your technique in the most efficient way. There are many pre-made bats from 729 and Yinhe for example that cost $10-$20 that are really good. Not like this Pro Touch bat that don't have any speed or spin capabilities at all. Totally useless to compare with.

It's kind of like comparing a wrecked Bobby Car, a Volvo and a McLaren F1 car. Most people shouldn't drive a F1 car because they can't handle it. And most players can't handle using a $300 professional bat.

So I don't think everyone should be in such a hurry to buy a professional table tennis bat, and even though I understand that Anders want Donic stuff to sell really good, don't take this video too seriously because it's very angled.

I think it's a bit low as a role model like Anders Lind to express himself like this: "But my advice to you would be to get a professional racket as soon as possible if you care about table tennis and want to improve"

 

[Zezima]

I find this video ridiculous of course he will have problems to play with the "high school rackets", he is used to his top quality "race car". This doesn't mean anybody could use it. I don't think anybody is recommending a "high school" racket, but a higher end premade is fine to begin with, no point in spending too much money before you know what You will like...

Cheers
L-zr

Not only that but look how he loops with his racket compared to the other rackets. If I loop like a 1000TTR player ofc It will go slow and "lack power" . Look how he looped with his own racket and obviously it had more quality aswell.
This just proves to me that not even a pro player can adjust to a slower racket immediately and doesn't have the confidence to loop like he is used to.
So for me the entire video is just pointless

 

[Zezima]

Yeah. I think this video is misleading in many ways. Of course, if you are one of the best players in the world, you can't play the same with a bad premade bat or a medium advanced one as you do with your tailor made bat that you practice with for 6 hours a day.

You have to look at what a player needs and what he/she is capable of using. You need the right gear to develop your technique in the most efficient way. There are many pre-made bats from 729 and Yinhe for example that cost $10-$20 that are really good. Not like this Pro Touch bat that don't have any speed or spin capabilities at all. Totally useless to compare with.

It's kind of like comparing a wrecked Bobby Car, a Volvo and a McLaren F1 car. Most people shouldn't drive a F1 car because they can't handle it. And most players can't handle using a $300 professional bat.

So I don't think everyone should be in such a hurry to buy a professional table tennis bat, and even though I understand that Anders want Donic stuff to sell really good, don't take this video too seriously because it's very angled.

I think it's a bit low as a role model like Anders Lind to express himself like this: "But my advice to you would be to get a professional racket as soon as possible if you care about table tennis and want to improve"

Not saying that about rubbers since for me rubbers are just finetuning your setup but when it comes to rackets I quite agree that you should get your racket that you can play for a long time asap. Not a big fan of having to change your blade each year or what is recommended. The rubbers on the other hand you can be more experimental with.

 

[vvk1]

Shame Anders didn't go one step further in that video - he should have tried swapping the rubbers from the "medium" racket and his regular "professional" racket. IMO, there's a good chance he himself would have been up for a surprise.

 

[NDH]

A heated debate on an online forum..... Juicy.

Firstly, I just want to state I really enjoy the content from @Heming Hu and Anders Lind.

The more English content from very capable players, the better.

But.... I thought the video from Anders was a bit.... pointless?

He should have specified who he was targeting.

Is it the outright beginner? No

Is it a casual player? No

Is it a long time player who isn't bothered? No.

The video is for people who already have the basics learned, and WANT to improve - That's a very small number of people, and to be honest..... I imagine MOST of them will naturally gravitate towards a custom bat anyway.

I've not read the other thread from Heming, but I would advise 100 out of 100 people (kids, adults, aliens) to start playing with a "decent" pre made bat.

In the UK, that can be bought for £25 maybe.

If the player sticks to the game and learns the strokes (which is much easier to do on a non responsive racket), then they can move up to a £100 all around set up (can likely be had for much less money as well).

So... Yeah. Kinda pointless video, and the target market for it will be 0.000000001% of the players.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

My 10yo is using Rakza 7 (on a 5ply) and had zero problems adjusting to it after the slow, thin, dead 729 non-tackies that were on there before. Took her less than one training session to get the balls where she wanted them.

My 7yo has hit a few balls every now and then and I honestly see zero difference between him using his sister's bat, or one of the club's older battered ones with deader, slower rubber on it. However, with a premade, it's both harder to feel what you're doing, and less potential to handle the ball with.

Premades are 99% of the time either:
- " Carbon" in such a way that there's zero feeling, just a maximal sweet spot. Which is great for fun because if you manage to hit the ball, it will go to the other side.
- Crap quality wood in such a way that the results are plainly inconsistent
- Rubber that's made to last -> hard, tough, and doesn't really do much in terms of spin or feeling
- Rubber that's made to be cheap -> quick to degrade, some even have the feeling of being plastic right out of the box

Point being, a custom bat with at least slightly sensible choice of materials isn't "too much" for young kids to start with. It's hard to go over that limit if you stick to medium properties. At the same time, the potential of said bat is much, much higher, as well as the lifetime (of the blade, but arguably most medium rubbers too). I expect my daughter to have a good time training with this bat for 1,5y easily, maybe 2y before she needs a rubber change. If she's developed a good bit by then we might need to step up, but we'll see.
Now, the blade is 25-30 euros new (I got it second hand for much less) and the rubbers are ones I used for a few months. The investment cost is really not that high.

This is why, I as a shop owner, I ask advice from coaches that handles 1) with kid beginners 2) adult beginners, and hear what they prefer and from there, I will also sell things based on that.
I don't talk or recommend based on my pro coach shoe, as these are two worlds apart.

I have sold to many rich beginner folks who choose based on price at the highest and then they would come back to buy something least extreme, less fast basically.

Personally, Pro and beginner is totally different - especially in terms of they needs and demands.
Unless all these guys giving recommendation has been there and done that (I mean, working with a bunch or hundreds of kid beginners, or adult learns), they are mere amateurs in that "space" - me included, but I have been supplying hundreds of them, so I have atleast some customer feedback to work with.

Over the years, I have learnt different coaches (for kids) have different preference, but mostly tie down to cheaper customized rackets and if the kid stays in the sport for a year, then maybe they will go up 1 or 2 levels. By then, they are no longer beginners.

I think Hu talked about he would start off if he was a beginner with H3 national in his "backlash thread video", well, that is his prerogative and if he want to coach people to start off with pro gears. I certainly won't. And getting a non-coach in Lind, still won't change my mind.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've not read the other thread from Heming, but I would advise 100 out of 100 people (kids, adults, aliens) to start playing with a "decent" pre made bat.

In the UK, that can be bought for £25 maybe.

If the player sticks to the game and learns the strokes (which is much easier to do on a non responsive racket), then they can move up to a £100 all around set up (can likely be had for much less money as well).

So... Yeah. Kinda pointless video, and the target market for it will be 0.000000001% of the players.

If Heming and Lind was a parent, he would understand why it is so important to start off kids with a £25 premade bat. You simply can't have pro gear in the house with everything your kid wants to try out for.

 

[NDH]

If Heming and Lind was a parent, he would understand why it is so important to start off kids with a £25 premade bat. You simply can't have pro gear in the house with everything your kid wants to try out for.

100%.

Also... I've got a trumpet, tennis racket, ballet outfit, gymnastics clothes and a guitar for sale....

All used once! 😂

 

[disaster3]

I can finish this debate, because following is the simple solution which resolves everyone's issues:

Golden Viscaria + DHS Hurricane 3 Neo BS boostered (FH) + whatever on the BH (around 47-51* ESN scale)

You're welcome! Admin this thread might be closed! There is nothing left to discuss

 

[ThePongCommenter]

TTD has it's mind made up on this topic so I'm not even going to bother anymore haha.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

I think some TTD folks are getting worked up over nothing.