Anybody ever fixed air bubble on topsheet?

[TensorBackhand]

And when you use it, you can tell us what the results are.

See my last post. I wrote a question about the results. Maybe you might have some insights into the answer.

 

[TensorBackhand]

My best guess is that the expanded topsheet on a smaller sponge means there is just not enough pip under the topsheet to support and bite the ball, thus leading to the jello feeling and the lack of bite on the ball. The balls just drop straight down from the rubber.

 

[ben1229]

My best guess is that the expanded topsheet on a smaller sponge means there is just not enough pip under the topsheet to support and bite the ball, thus leading to the jello feeling and the lack of bite on the ball. The balls just drop straight down from the rubber.

Possibility, you used wrong glue,

 

[TensorBackhand]

Possibility, you used wrong glue,

why would the glue matter?

 

[ben1229]

why would the glue matter?

Some glue after dry, still soft, some after dry became hard,

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I was really hoping this experiment would be a success, but i gotta report that its a complete disaster.

First off, even when bouncing the ball on the reglued rubber, it has a somewhat supple and unstable feeling. Kinda like jello.

When you hit topspin, its abundantly clear that the rubber cant bite the ball. 90% of shots fall down into the net. There is no stability and no confidence in shots.

What do you think led to this? Possibly
1) the expanded topsheet means that there are far fewer pips per surface area than normal. Is this what is causing the rubber to shoot low?

2) the bond between pip and sponge may be too weak, possibly leady to instability.

3)the additional booster on the sponge somehow messed up the rubber?

See my last post. I wrote a question about the results. Maybe you might have some insights into the answer.

Did you boost the sponge? Or no? In the post where you describe the effects, it sounds like you did try to boost. But I am not sure.

If you boosted the sponge, I actually think this may possibly be part of why. But clearly part of why is wrapped up in why the topsheet was so much larger after it was off the sponge which may have something to do with how they make this rubber.

From your experiment, I think we know that the original rubber, there was something more to it than just the rubber glued to the topsheet. I actually have a feeling this is the case with many ESN rubbers where, if you took the topsheet off and then tried to glue it back onto the sponge, you would get a rubber that performed nothing like the original rubber before the topsheet was removed.

So, from my perspective, your experiment was not a failure at all. You could not use the rubber before. You still can't use it now. But there is good information in the FACT that, after the topsheet was removed the sponge and topsheet were vastly different sizes. Also, there is good information in the fact that, when the topsheet was glued back to the sponge, the rubber performed nothing like it did before the topsheet was removed. That is a lot of information to have about how these rubbers are made and how there is more than meets the eye to how the sponge and topsheet are put together in the ESN factory.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

If your only goal was to keep using the rubber, then, that goal was not met by your experiment. But, you already could not use the rubber. So in my opinion, we got valuable information from you doing the experiment that may be more useful than a few more weeks using a rubber that had already flamed out.

 

[ttarc]

Found some pictures from my Triple Extra experiment.
From what I remember the TE had no dome (maybe a slight dome?) when fresh and did not shrink (maybe a bit but definitely not as much as some ESN rubbers) the two or three times I tried it on different blades. Stored it in a ziploc/freezer bag for some time and it got a reverse dome...
I wonder what they used to stretch the sponge...
Most likely the plasticizers in the sponge evaporated see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thermal_expansion#Rubber_has_Negative_TE and not something like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough–Joule_effect "If an elastic band is first stretched and then subjected to heating, it will shrink rather than expand."

 

[TensorBackhand]

Did you boost the sponge? Or no? In the post where you describe the effects, it sounds like you did try to boost. But I am not sure.

If you boosted the sponge, I actually think this may possibly be part of why. But clearly part of why is wrapped up in why the topsheet was so much larger after it was off the sponge which may have something to do with how they make this rubber.

From your experiment, I think we know that the original rubber, there was something more to it than just the rubber glued to the topsheet. I actually have a feeling this is the case with many ESN rubbers where, if you took the topsheet off and then tried to glue it back onto the sponge, you would get a rubber that performed nothing like the original rubber before the topsheet was removed.

So, from my perspective, your experiment was not a failure at all. You could not use the rubber before. You still can't use it now. But there is good information in the FACT that, after the topsheet was removed the sponge and topsheet were vastly different sizes. Also, there is good information in the fact that, when the topsheet was glued back to the sponge, the rubber performed nothing like it did before the topsheet was removed. That is a lot of information to have about how these rubbers are made and how there is more than meets the eye to how the sponge and topsheet are put together in the ESN factory.

Actually even before the bubble formed, I did boost this rubber before. So the topsheet was stretched bigger than the sponge. But actually even without boosting, the rubber curves inward toward the sponge. So i think that even without boosting, the topsheet would have been bigger.

I was thinking that after I separated the topsheet, the pips no longer fit into their original grooves. And each pip has some sponge residue on them. So when I reglued it, the pips actually sit higher up than before, because the pips are not in the grooves. So this may also contribute to the wobbly feeling.

What do you think? Would the groove issue or the wider pips spacing be the real culprit?

 

[TensorBackhand]

I can't believe it, another sheet of the same rubber is starting to bubble on me again.

Actually even before i saw the bubble, i noticed that something seemed wrong with the rubber. The throw angle started to become lower, and it seemed like the rubber wasnt biting the ball as much. Then lo and behold, today the bubbles starting to appear.

This is SO frustrating!

I put just 2 light layers of booster on the rubber, but would that be enough to destroy the rubber? Maybe this rubber just really hates booster. But i saw other peoples' review saying it reacts well the booster. Anybody else have experience boosting victas triple double?

 

[JJ Ng]

I can't believe it, another sheet of the same rubber is starting to bubble on me again.

Actually even before i saw the bubble, i noticed that something seemed wrong with the rubber. The throw angle started to become lower, and it seemed like the rubber wasnt biting the ball as much. Then lo and behold, today the bubbles starting to appear.

This is SO frustrating!

I put just 2 light layers of booster on the rubber, but would that be enough to destroy the rubber? Maybe this rubber just really hates booster. But i saw other peoples' review saying it reacts well the booster. Anybody else have experience boosting victas triple double?

I have not boosted victas triple double. I have heavily boosted H3 regular, H3 neo, H3 skyline neo and no bubble. I have lightly boosted T05fx, T64fx, T80fx, Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft, Rakza X, EL-S, MX-S, FX-P and Rasanter 47. No bubble. the only bubble I have seen was boosting Sanwei Target National.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I have not boosted victas triple double. I have heavily boosted H3 regular, H3 neo, H3 skyline neo and no bubble. I have lightly boosted T05fx, T64fx, T80fx, Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft, Rakza X, EL-S, MX-S, FX-P and Rasanter 47. No bubble. the only bubble I have seen was boosting Sanwei Target National.

How many layers did you put on STN? I boosted STN before, but it didn't bubble.

I'm very surprised that two Victas rubbers in a row bubbled.

 

[JJ Ng]

How many layers did you put on STN? I boosted STN before, but it didn't bubble.

I'm very surprised that two Victas rubbers in a row bubbled.

Two layers. Not too much. As you can tell, I have never seen a bubble before so seeing it on my STN rubber was a surprise. I have boosted probably 30 sheets of H3 regular, H3 neo and H3 Skyline neo. Never a problem. Then I boosted STN and saw it forming at the bottom of the rubber.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Two layers. Not too much. As you can tell, I have never seen a bubble before so seeing it on my STN rubber was a surprise. I have boosted probably 30 sheets of H3 regular, H3 neo and H3 Skyline neo. Never a problem. Then I boosted STN and saw it forming at the bottom of the rubber.

Totally. I've boosted 30 or 40 rubbers before, and many of them very cheap brands. I boosted Yinhe and Loki and Sanwei and Palio, etc. I have never seen a bubble before. But now I have seen two in a row with the more expensive Victas brand. Very surprising to me.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The only bright side is that it gives me a decent excuse to get some of those new Loki rubbers to replace my bubbled rubbers.

 

[JJ Ng]

The only bright side is that it gives me a decent excuse to get some of those new Loki rubbers to replace my bubbled rubbers.

Lol, and I assume you plan to boost the new Loki rubbers? By the way, I did lighty boost RXTON I, III (blue and pink) and V. They did not bubble up.

 

[lodro]

If, and only IF you think that the bubbles will stretch themselves out, I would peel the top rubber carefully and then forget about the glue, I would buy half a dozen of
gluesheets from XVT table tennis shop and use one of those sheets to go in between rubber and sponge. No worries about not enough glue or too much glue etc.
www.aliexpress.com/item/4001292255615.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.100009.1.57ed34a5ajhL2p&gps-id=pcDetailLeftTopSell&scm=1007.13482.271138.0&scm_id=1007.13482.271138.0&scm-url=1007.13482.271138.0&pvid=077dce74-7076-4c6a-8fcb-7e007bfa434b&_t=gps-idcDetailLeftTopSell,scm-url:1007.13482.271138.0,pvid:077dce74-7076-4c6a-8fcb-7e007bfa434b,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238116%232002&pdp_npi=3%40dis!NZD!15.32!14.56!!!!!%402101effb16879397785028695ebc55!10000015642373353!rec!NZ!139609019

 

[Choosikick]

Once upon a time, I had an experience with re-gluing topsheet to sponge on Giant Dragon rubber with a green sponge. There were no boosters then, and apparently it was a factory defect - the topsheet broke away from the sponge almost without effort. I tried to glue it with rubber glue, but the top sheet came off, after that I read on the forums that you can use polyurethane glue. On polyurethane glue, the rubber came together, held well, but played poorly - the already low speed disappeared and unpredictability in rotation appeared. Regarding the bubbles on the rubber from the use of boosters, in my memory it was one hurricane 3 after bullying on my part, first with vaseline oil, then with baby oil, then with a booster. All other rubbers work well. Chinese rubbers respond to booster very well, hybrids respond well, and eurotensors practically do not respond to a booster.
Regarding Victas, the booster obviously softened the glue that was used to glue the topsheet to the sponge at the factory. Apparently, the manufacturers of this rubber have begun to use a different glue that is affected by boosters and this is a bad signal.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I started using the Victas Triple Double again for my hard sponge setup, but I feel its just a bit deader than I want it.

I really want to boost it, but Im afraid of another quick bublle.

Should I risk the bubble again or try to play through the unboosted rubber?

 

[latej]

I started using the Victas Triple Double again for my hard sponge setup, but I feel its just a bit deader than I want it.

I really want to boost it, but Im afraid of another quick bublle.

Should I risk the bubble again or try to play through the unboosted rubber?

In my experience, the bubble develops after the first or second re-glue (involving re-boost), because those stretch the rubber, force me to cut some overlap. So if it is new, I'd not worry about 1st time boosting, of course assuming you're not making a "tube" of it.

Curious about how you like it. For me, the top-sheet felt somehow "thin", in compare to H3. The sponge and hardness felt all-right though.