Are worn out Long pips better than new long pips?

[TensorBackhand]

A question: after playing a fair amount against long pips in recent months, I have this impression that old/worn out long pips are better than new long pips.

With the old LP, it has less friction and has more anti-spin property. So if you loop to old LP, the ball comes back with heavy underspin every time.

With new LP, it has more friction and it doesn't produce that same level of automatic "reversal".

So does anybody else think that old LP is better than new?

Also, I often find that I loop better with my BH against LP than I do with my FH. My backhand produces less topspin, so the reversal is also less and I can loop the 2nd and 3rd chop. With my FH, my loop produces too much spin and the reversal results in heavy underspin. I can't loop the 2nd chop. Anybody else experience this?

 

[Machi]

There are new long pips with a lot of reversal out of the box like grass d tecs and there are also grippy long pips like feint long 3. There isn't better or worse, just personal preferences

 

[TensorBackhand]

There are new long pips with a lot of reversal out of the box like grass d tecs and there are also grippy long pips like feint long 3. There isn't better or worse, just personal preferences

Interesting. How about Yinhe Neptune, Yinhe Qing, Palio CK531, Saviga? Are these known as grippy LP or reversal LP?

 

[Machi]

Interesting. How about Yinhe Neptune, Yinhe Qing, Palio CK531, Saviga? Are these known as grippy LP or reversal LP?

i dont know about chinese brand pips, only dhs cloud and fog 3 which is grippy

 

[NextLevel]

Some players prefer their pips to be slippery like the old frictionless pips that are now illegal so they like to have pips a bit worn. Others like their pips to remain grippy for push and chopping variation and for hitting. Definitely, a reversal player is more about the slippery pips, while a hitting player might be about either but needs some grip as hitting with slippery can be difficult (not impossible though, even the frictionless regardless of what i said).

 

[Amayzde]

I dont know about worn, but I have heard weird stories like people putting their pips in the microwave to get some desired effect.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Study an older sheet of LP closely. You'll find that quite a few of the pips are cracked at the base. Though they haven't completely fallen off yet they mean that the ball returned to the opponent is inconsistent with the perceived stroke by the LP player.
If in a tournament you are drawn against an lp player you should use your opportunity to inspect the racket for missing or broken pips and protest if you think it's illegal. If you can see one missing pip, you can bet your bottom dollar that their will be quite a few more that are hanging by a thread. There is probably a rule which defines how many pips can be damaged enough to make it illegal
Many years ago I played both with and against LP in tournaments and I can assure you that some LP players rely on playing with a tatty old rubber sheet in order to take unfair advantage of using an inconsistent surface. It certainly worked against less experienced opponents
I also found that it was expensive keeping the lp sheet legal if practicing 20 plus hours a week. I solved it by having a practice blade so that my tournament blade stayed legal longer more cheaply.
I was glad in the end to go back to SP both sides

 

[Brs]

I don't know if they are better, but I do observe many LP players using the same sheet for years. So at least we can say LP stay playable at a similar level a lot longer than grippy rubbers.

Personally I think it may be more about the demographics than any game advantage. Lots of long pips players are guys even older than me. They probably remember when a new sheet of LP cost $1. So they want that $40 sheet of dtecs lo last them 40 years.

 

[blahness]

More reversal isnt always what you want, what is the holy grail is easy control on the degree of reversal. So for if I chopblock your loop, depending on what I do with my fingers and wrist, the outgoing chopblock could have heavy underspin to nospin or even sidetopspin if I so wanted. If it is always heavy underspin it is easy for the opponent to adapt.

 

[Ghostzen]

Reversal changes also depends on what ball your give the pimples/anti really. If you vary the spin a lot on the loops/drives/pushes etc you can really open the game up quite a bit and get chances to put the ball away.

If you give the same loop to the pimples/Anti then they groove and that makes the game a whole lot harder to play against.

The worn pimple will lose its friction level over time or if external factors are introduced.

Played a few decent pimples and Anti combos over the years and it's rather cerebral to work the ball to make that opening.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I tried looping against my friend's chop today with a old Saviga and a new Saviga. I found I had much more problems overcoming the heavy underspin from the old Saviga. The new one seemed like it had more predictable and also lighter spin.

 

[Ediv]

I tried looping against my friend's chop today with a old Saviga and a new Saviga. I found I had much more problems overcoming the heavy underspin from the old Saviga. The new one seemed like it had more predictable and also lighter spin.

Had the same thing. My friend is even trying to find a way to get his new one to play like the older one. He finds the new one too stiff.

 

[Lee]

I have to agree based on my learning experience and also logic, that almost frictionless LP indeed can return the any ball's spin rotation that was given to, with less blade-face adjustment and strokes.
With a more grippy LP, the user has more option/ freedom on how they want to return the ball, since the grippy LP can change the rotation of the ball. Both kind of LP can return/ produce wobble ball's trajectory. Frictionless LP can only produce wobble ball if given side rotational, while the grippy LP player has to produce it deliberately, depending of the skill of the player.

 

[John_]

Interesting. How about Yinhe Neptune, Yinhe Qing, Palio CK531, Saviga? Are these known as grippy LP or reversal LP?

Neptune is relatively grippy and slow, more of a defending rubber. Saviga is a well known rubber for blocking, a friend played it in ox. I've heard the ck531 is a normal long pip, middle of the road, like 388d, medium grip and medium spin. And qing should be less grippy, it's advertised as an ox blocking rubber.

Personality I'd choose a Japanese pip any day of the week compared to the Chinese. Like illius s, feint 2 and p1r.

For blocking with long pips I like them worn out, they are softer and less grippy, they are easier to play and more deceptive. But for defense it's the opposite, I like a fresh rubber that reacts more aggressively, I can cut topspin with more power and get a flatter trajectory out of it with more spin.

 

[Lee]

I currently use Victas P1V 0.5, but wondering if the OX still has some bites for attacking around the table?