Backhand rubbers? Is d09c too much for a beginner-intermediate player?

[Gtsnake]

I've never understood of the appeal of BTY rubbers. They are a terrible value. Are competitor rubbers that cost half as much that much less in performance? Absolutely not. There are plenty of rubbers that cost half as much that delivers the same or better performance IMO. I'd choose Xiom Omega Guang, Fastarc G1, Rasanter C48, V22 or Hammond Z2 over D09c any day. I can buy two sheets for one of the D09C.

 

[merlin el mago]

No as in bad idea? Or No as in there shouldn't be much of a problem?

Long answer: isn't too much for a beginner-intermediate player.

 

[folie]

Yes, bty products are really expensive, but popular, so its easier to gather opinions, and if they work, they work..

I'll see if I can ask a coach to borrow me his freitas with 09c to try out.
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I appreciate all opinions.

 

[superbackhand]

it is 90% about technique. different rubbers deliver different arcs and quality and most important: feel. I’d recommend you develop your technique first - then try out different rubbers to see what fits your shot.

if you come here and ask such a simple question, honestly you’ll get a bunch of EJ opinions and that won’t help.

 

[folie]

it is 90% about technique. different rubbers deliver different arcs and quality and most important: feel. I’d recommend you develop your technique first - then try out different rubbers to see what fits your shot.

if you come here and ask such a simple question, honestly you’ll get a bunch of EJ opinions and that won’t help.

I agree with that. It's just that I can't stand soft rubbers and want something decent that won't annoy me every time I touch the ball. I'll figure something out.

 

[TensorBackhand]

47 esn shouldnt be too soft. Why not juse use some popular 47 rubbers like G1 or MxP. There are some 48 and 50 rubbers too. Aboove 50 really becomes hard to use on BH for intermediate players.

Even 50 can be quite tough

 

[Doum]

I use a 47 degree, 2mm ESN rubber on my BH. It's just a perfect balance in speed and spin. Don't feel too soft.

I would use the 09C on the FH side. But if you can try it then see if you like it. Only you know the answer.

 

[NDH]

I've never understood of the appeal of BTY rubbers. They are a terrible value. Are competitor rubbers that cost half as much that much less in performance? Absolutely not. There are plenty of rubbers that cost half as much that delivers the same or better performance IMO. I'd choose Xiom Omega Guang, Fastarc G1, Rasanter C48, V22 or Hammond Z2 over D09c any day. I can buy two sheets for one of the D09C.

This argument has been had many times, but it’s worth repeating for those who may not have seen it.

It all comes down to one thing for me.

“Performance longevity”

The reason I added “performance”, is because all rubbers will last many years if performance wasn’t a consideration.

But the length of time you get very good performance from the butterfly rubbers I’ve tried, vs the others, is staggering.

“Off the shelf”, there are plenty of rubbers that are similar to butterfly, which cost WAY less.

But you would have to replace those rubbers 3 or 4 times to the 1 use of the butterfly rubber in my experience.

As for D09C on the backhand….. Yes, it’s fine.

But it depends what sort of backhand you have.

D09C thrives when looping, but can also block very well.

However, if you have a punchy type backhand, I’d look elsewhere.

 

[Gtsnake]

This argument has been had many times, but it’s worth repeating for those who may not have seen it.

It all comes down to one thing for me.

“Performance longevity”

The reason I added “performance”, is because all rubbers will last many years if performance wasn’t a consideration.

But the length of time you get very good performance from the butterfly rubbers I’ve tried, vs the others, is staggering.

“Off the shelf”, there are plenty of rubbers that are similar to butterfly, which cost WAY less.

But you would have to replace those rubbers 3 or 4 times to the 1 use of the butterfly rubber in my experience.

As for D09C on the backhand….. Yes, it’s fine.

But it depends what sort of backhand you have.

D09C thrives when looping, but can also block very well.

However, if you have a punchy type backhand, I’d look elsewhere.

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. The competitor rubbers are very long lasting as well. Certainly close to if not the same life as D09c. At half the price they only need to last half as long to justify the value. However they last much longer than half the life therefore I would never buy or use D09c.

 

[folie]

This argument has been had many times, but it’s worth repeating for those who may not have seen it.

It all comes down to one thing for me.

“Performance longevity”

The reason I added “performance”, is because all rubbers will last many years if performance wasn’t a consideration.

But the length of time you get very good performance from the butterfly rubbers I’ve tried, vs the others, is staggering.

“Off the shelf”, there are plenty of rubbers that are similar to butterfly, which cost WAY less.

But you would have to replace those rubbers 3 or 4 times to the 1 use of the butterfly rubber in my experience.

As for D09C on the backhand….. Yes, it’s fine.

But it depends what sort of backhand you have.

D09C thrives when looping, but can also block very well.

However, if you have a punchy type backhand, I’d look elsewhere.

My coach has been drilling loops and every kind of topspin into me.
I do like a good punch, but I guess that's the way it's heading.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm currently using Fastarc S-1 as my BH rubber on a FZD ALC. I'm doing ok with it, but I dislike the feel soft rubbers on backhand.
I've seen D09C being widely used as a BH rubber and I know it offers a lot of spin potential. While looking at the butterfly chart, it is rated below T05FX in terms of speed and my Fastarc S-1 is supposedly close to T05 FX in that regard.
I've not had the occasion to try D09C before, but I fancy the idea of a harder, spinnier rubber for my BH. I'm just worried that the sponge may be a bit too hard to engage at my level. What is your opinion on that?

Are there any other really spinny aprox medium hardness rubbers worth considering?

So I think sponge hardness is often more about style/feeling and desire for speed (or conversely power with spin) than about playing level to be honest. If you swing fast and you have big strokes with thick contact, D09C can work quite easily - the ball will not be released as quickly as with a softer rubber on most shots, but in a certain range, the power will be much more. The rubber blocks reasonably well. The problem is that if you don't swing fast and you don't spin with thick contact, you might find the performance boring, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. But for people who want to win with speed relative to their level, that is not good because the power they need to generate may not be enough to get the speed they desire and backhand topspin is a smaller stroke. But if you are okay with hitting multiple shots and not really concerned about overpowering the opponent (and you might because the spin of 09c is heavy), or if you have the power to get good speed with hard rubber, D09c is fine on the backhand. I used it for a while and my current rubber is somewhat similar, just a lot cheaper and not as springy, but better suited to me.

 

[NextLevel]

This argument has been had many times, but it’s worth repeating for those who may not have seen it.

It all comes down to one thing for me.

“Performance longevity”

The reason I added “performance”, is because all rubbers will last many years if performance wasn’t a consideration.

But the length of time you get very good performance from the butterfly rubbers I’ve tried, vs the others, is staggering.

“Off the shelf”, there are plenty of rubbers that are similar to butterfly, which cost WAY less.

But you would have to replace those rubbers 3 or 4 times to the 1 use of the butterfly rubber in my experience.

As for D09C on the backhand….. Yes, it’s fine.

But it depends what sort of backhand you have.

D09C thrives when looping, but can also block very well.

However, if you have a punchy type backhand, I’d look elsewhere.

D09c dries out in a way that I think the longevity argument for it is not as strong. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NextLevel]

My coach has been drilling loops and every kind of topspin into me.
I do like a good punch, but I guess that's the way it's heading.

IF you consider the backhand punch important, 09c is in the wrong direction. However, if you think short pushing and power topspin on backhand are your thing and you have the power to spin consistently, then 09c is possible. But if you have never used tacky rubber on either side, it is better to start on the forehand.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. The competitor rubbers are very long lasting as well. Certainly close to if not the same life as D09c. At half the price they only need to last half as long to justify the value. However they last much longer than half the life therefore I would never buy or use D09c.

I'm not a Butterfly user or seller, but I agree that Butterfly rubbers last longer.
MX-P is considered the closest to T05, in some markets MX-P does better than T05 in terms of user's response.
However, for many high level players, they change rubbers every month.
So longevity of the rubber has never been a factor for many that commented.
It is normal that ESN rubbers after 1 or 2 months of usage, the performance will drop a great deal (this is where the booster is gone or the booster has gotten to the topsheet and changed the quality of the topsheet)
Whereby the Butterfly rubbers would last longer.

This is pretty much a known fact, but as I mentioned ,if you are changing before that date, it is fine to use (and cheaper too).

For the ones that can't notice a difference, then I think it is okay to use.
But for the ones that want that 80%+ performance for a long time, then one could weigh in higher price Butterfly versus few lower priced other rubbers.
I know people who use rubbers for 1 to 2 years, and are okay with it too. So, its just relative to each one's preference.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

D09c dries out in a way that I think the longevity argument for it is not as strong. Just my 2 cents.

D09C indeed has this problem
I know many that went back to T05, but the Hard version

 

[NextLevel]

D09C indeed has this problem
I know many that went back to T05, but the Hard version

I am not a fan of the durability of the Hard Tenergy either. But at least it stays a bit more consistent for longer, while 09c is just a worse version of every cheap tacky rubber out there after its sponge is gone. But for the time period most pros use these rubbers, it doesn't matter. For us non-pros, the savings can be meaningful.

My current rubber is more than fine, the main reason I use it is because I trust ESN quality control, and I can change rubber every 2 months if I want to to get 09c performance and still save money LOL.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I am not a fan of the durability of the Hard Tenergy either. But at least it stays a bit more consistent for longer, while 09c is just a worse version of every cheap tacky rubber out there after its sponge is gone. But for the time period most pros use these rubbers, it doesn't matter. For us non-pros, the savings can be meaningful.

My current rubber is more than fine, the main reason I use it is because I trust ESN quality control, and I can change rubber every 2 months if I want to to get 09c performance and still save money LOL.

I'm all in for cheaper rubbers.
but mind you, ESN cost price is on the raise.
I hope I am wrong... I wish I am wrong rather

Lets see what the brands can do to maintain current pricing.

Just imagine ESN goes up and Butterfly would do too.
Its cheaper to play Golf than table tennis

 

[NextLevel]

I'm all in for cheaper rubbers.
but mind you, ESN cost price is on the raise.
I hope I am wrong... I wish I am wrong rather

Lets see what the brands can do to maintain current pricing.

Just imagine ESN goes up and Butterfly would do too.
Its cheaper to play Golf than table tennis

Well, one of the top players in US, Jishan Liang, uses the rubbers I use. And I know very good players who use my rubber on forehand so I am okay with it. I can get it for around $40 now.

But if the prices gets higher, then I will just go to Hurricane 3 Neo. I think my technique is headed in that direction.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Well, one of the top players in US, Jishan Liang, uses the rubbers I use. And I know very good players who use my rubber on forehand so I am okay with it. I can get it for around $40 now.

But if the prices gets higher, then I will just go to Hurricane 3 Neo. I think my technique is headed in that direction.

I'm going to ask Jishan to stop copying you

 

[codebop]

It's probably too hard for you. You likely won't be able to engage the sponge with backhand. It's also heavy as hell.