Bodybuilding in Tabletennis !

[LordPippington]

Ronnie Coleman, one of the biggest and best bodybuilders of all time, could still do the splits!

Again guys, if you train the attributes you want to develop or maintain, there's only a very, very VERY small portion who has to worry about the negative impact of strength training or growing too large.

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2002/soscomp70.jpg

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Take a look at olympic lifters and tell me heavy weights and low reps build slow muscles... lol -- sounds like some locker room propaganda from the 1950s!

And for anyone asking "will bodybuilding ruin me athletically?" I usually just giggle to myself. For a very elite few, it might. Most people who think about bodybuilding and muse, hmm I wouldn't want to get that big! ...couldn't even get a 1/5 of the size if they trained for 30 years! So it's usually a moot point anyway.

Well, these are weightlifters, not bodybuilders. Bodybuilding means you want good-looking muscles. For real bodybuilding you have to diet and train specific muscles in order to get the most muscle-mass. This means if your timetable says that you have to do X and Y exercises, then you can't do any other type of exercises, because it mess your training plan.

Why heavy weights are bad to TT? Go to the gym before your TT training session and lift heavy weights. You will see that your coordination skills will fall to the floor. If you take bodybuilding seriously, then something very similar will happen. It's not really you can't hit fast. But you can't hit fast and precise at the same time.

But I think our fella didn't ask about that serious type of bodybuilding where you want to look like the image Carl posted.
He most likely just wanted to train to look good on the beach. For that he can train the full body. Even the CNT does some arm and chest training and abs training is good for TT.

 

[Archosaurus]

Its just not about the muscle mass, if you lose the flexibility and the sensitivity in your forearm you won't be able to feel the ball , if you know of exercises that strengthen your muscles without losing speed , power and touch you should suggest the OP about them ...

Since when do you lose any flexibility or sensitivity if you train your muscles? Next you're going to say that martial artists should stop doing weights and exercises so they can punch and kick faster. Of course, stretching is required to upkeep flexibility, but it is not mutually exclusive with strength.


Walk up and down stairs for an hour. Carry a log around for an hour. Do isometrics. Train low reps high weight with explosive movements.

@ajtatomano2

If you go to the gym and then start playing, you will be playing with a very taxed nervous system and less energy. Lifting weights is a very taxing activity on the body, that's why you need rest days. No one said that if you do a table-tennis oriented weight routine at the end of the training day and rest adequately, you will get slower on the next day.

 

[ttmonster]

And you are saying this from your practical experience of doing weight training and having the qualified understanding what is touch and sensitivity in table tennis or is it again a product of your guesswork based on knowledge gained through extensive web research and little practical experience ?

Since when do you lose any flexibility or sensitivity if you train your muscles? Next you're going to say that martial artists should stop doing weights and exercises so they can punch and kick faster. Of course, stretching is required to upkeep flexibility, but it is not mutually exclusive with strength.


Walk up and down stairs for an hour. Carry a log around for an hour. Do isometrics. Train low reps high weight with explosive movements.

 

[Archosaurus]

And you are saying this from your practical experience of doing weight training and having the qualified understanding what is touch and sensitivity in table tennis or is it again a product of your guesswork based on knowledge gained through extensive web research and little practical experience ?

It's from my experience. Although I have worse touch than most people here, so I might not notice any diminished effects.

We must also remember that the pro training their body and the amateur is a whole different ballgame. I'm not so sure how much pro-specific things apply to us in a practical sense.

Perhaps if you can explain why sensitivity is hampered by increased strength, I could understand. Do you mean that incoming resistances are "weaker" because of more strength and are thus harder to feel? Well, explain why Schumacher had so good feeling even though he was perhaps the strongest racing driver in history.

Or are you implying that increased strength has negative effects on the nerves, the brain etc. ?

 

[ttmonster]

I clearly stated what I meant by sensitivity or feeling it has to do with feeling and being able to differentiate betweening varying impact of the ball on the rubber, sponge and the paddle ... it has nothing to do with negative effect on brain ...

not sure how the feeling of a F1 driver relates to a paddle sport ...

It's from my experience. Although I have worse touch than most people here, so I might not notice any diminished effects.

We must also remember that the pro training their body and the amateur is a whole different ballgame. I'm not so sure how much pro-specific things apply to us in a practical sense.

Perhaps if you can explain why sensitivity is hampered by increased strength, I could understand. Do you mean that incoming resistances are "weaker" because of more strength and are thus harder to feel? Well, explain why Schumacher had so good feeling even though he was perhaps the strongest racing driver in history.

Or are you implying that increased strength has negative effects on the nerves, the brain etc. ?

 

[Archosaurus]

I clearly stated what I meant by sensitivity or feeling it has to do with feeling and being able to differentiate betweening varying impact of the ball on the rubber, sponge and the paddle ... it has nothing to do with negative effect on brain ...

not sure how the feeling of a F1 driver relates to a paddle sport ...

Are you implying that your brain is not in use when you are feeling the ball and producing the impact? Where do you think those sensations are produced?

I cannot imagine why lifting weights or increased strength would hamper feeling in any way. Perhaps if you bang your hand onto the weights themselves and damage the nerves.

 

[LordPippington]

All that seems to be very archaic thinking. Is there a pro sports team in any sport that doesn't lift weights (including heavy weights)? And many of those require touch as well -- baseball, football, soccer, badminton, lacrosse, whatever else.

If you want to disagree with the current line of thought regarding strength training and sports performance, that is certainly your prerogative. But are there any facts you can list to support such a stance?

I'd still summarize my stance by saying, no, an amateur level player will not inhibit their table tennis by doing any sort of strength training.

 

[Archosaurus]

Of course, if you for example only do bicep curls, and build up large biceps, but you have a very imbalanced arm/back/chest/shoulder area, then that is not good in general and will hamper your table tennis. I don't think we are talking about that.

Just by playing and swinging you will build up the muscles. That is why pro table tennis players often have quite a larger and stronger dominant hand, even though they train both sides of the body. The body would not build those muscles if they hampered performance, at least I do not think so.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Since when do you lose any flexibility or sensitivity if you train your muscles? Next you're going to say that martial artists should stop doing weights and exercises so they can punch and kick faster. Of course, stretching is required to upkeep flexibility, but it is not mutually exclusive with strength.


Walk up and down stairs for an hour. Carry a log around for an hour. Do isometrics. Train low reps high weight with explosive movements.

@ajtatomano2

If you go to the gym and then start playing, you will be playing with a very taxed nervous system and less energy. Lifting weights is a very taxing activity on the body, that's why you need rest days. No one said that if you do a table-tennis oriented weight routine at the end of the training day and rest adequately, you will get slower on the next day.

As I said, it's different to casually go to the gym and do some training and do serious bodybuilding.

Martial artist are somewhat similar to TT players, just TT players don't have to hit with power, only with accuracy. Of course martial artists can have good coordination skills. What is really hard is finding the balance between TT and strength training. If you play TT twice a week for example, then it's ok, but when you play 4-5 times a week, then it's a problem.
And martial artists get strength not only from weight lifting, but from their normal training, like training with a punching bag, even doing kata-s.

In the end, I tell you about my own experience. I am playing piano. Playing piano needs good coordination. Even holding the racket for a long time isn't good for playing piano. I love both playing the piano and playing TT. I do both. If I keep playing piano every day it's not that terrible, but I need a much longer warmup to play well, than when I can't play TT for one or two weeks.

 

[ttmonster]

Again you have not answered my original question , can you feel the ball on either of you wings , when it hits the middle when it does not hit the middle, when the topsheet is engaged without the sponge or not without the sponge ... and have you done a couple of weight training sessions and checked whether your feeling changes or gets numbed ?

There is no point in arguing academically unless you have had practical experience of this. I have done this and I know how the feeling changes.

The OP is an amateur player who is interested in body building not a pro player who is asking about weight training ...

Are you implying that your brain is not in use when you are feeling the ball and producing the impact? Where do you think those sensations are produced?

I cannot imagine why lifting weights or increased strength would hamper feeling in any way. Perhaps if you bang your hand onto the weights themselves and damage the nerves.

 

[ChinaFan]

Work with brain

As I said, it's different to casually go to the gym and do some training and do serious bodybuilding.

Martial artist are somewhat similar to TT players, just TT players don't have to hit with power, only with accuracy. Of course martial artists can have good coordination skills. What is really hard is finding the balance between TT and strength training. If you play TT twice a week for example, then it's ok, but when you play 4-5 times a week, then it's a problem.
And martial artists get strength not only from weight lifting, but from their normal training, like training with a punching bag, even doing kata-s.

In the end, I tell you about my own experience. I am playing piano. Playing piano needs good coordination. Even holding the racket for a long time isn't good for playing piano. I love both playing the piano and playing TT. I do both. If I keep playing piano every day it's not that terrible, but I need a much longer warmup to play well, than when I can't play TT for one or two weeks.

All of you are wrong about strengh training. If you mix it propery with flex and speed training. You will gain awesome results. I was always fast but now after one year mixed training i am like little spark. You can have one problem. You can forgot about your backhand if you can play with fullbody forehand topspin. Just do it well. Find coach who can understand movement of table tennis and ask him about training schedule. You would change your training on table . If you dont play with 100 balls at one excercise, you need to change it. I am badly sorry about my gramma. I hope everyone understand my thinking. Just look on ma long or zhen dong. They have legs like heavy lifters.

 

[Archosaurus]

@ttmonster

Yes, I have felt a clear diminished feeling AFTER a workout. That is why you train with weights after you have been to the table. Like I said, the nervous system is very taxed after a workout, and your muscles are tired as well. Holding the racket can be difficult.

This is not what I mean, though. It is a temporary effect and it will go away during the day after, unless you indeed train like a bodybuilder/train above your limits.

 

[ttmonster]

Look at the title of the thread ... "body building in table tennis"

@ttmonster

Yes, I have felt a clear diminished feeling AFTER a workout. That is why you train with weights after you have been to the table. Like I said, the nervous system is very taxed after a workout, and your muscles are tired as well. Holding the racket can be difficult.

This is not what I mean, though. It is a temporary effect and it will go away during the day after, unless you indeed train like a bodybuilder/train above your limits.

 

[Archosaurus]

Look at the title of the thread ... "body building in table tennis"

Many good posts have been made about the title and I think it's been answered.

However some people think that OP shouldn't stay completely away from weightlifting, and that is why the discussion is where it is.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

All of you are wrong about strengh training. If you mix it propery with flex and speed training. You will gain awesome results. I was always fast but now after one year mixed training i am like little spark. You can have one problem. You can forgot about your backhand if you can play with fullbody forehand topspin. Just do it well. Find coach who can understand movement of table tennis and ask him about training schedule. You would change your training on table . If you dont play with 100 balls at one excercise, you need to change it. I am badly sorry about my gramma. I hope everyone understand my thinking. Just look on ma long or zhen dong. They have legs like heavy lifters.

I think you're speaking to the wrong guy
Probably some problem with the language.
I am aware most of the things you said.
Please be more specific in which part do you think I was wrong.

 

[ttmonster]

weightlifting is a separate sport , body building is a separate sport , weight training is a different activity to supplement the sport you are already engaged in . I am not sure what you want to say , you went from weight training , to examples of F1 driving to martial artists , to contradicting your own claims and now you are talking about weightlifting and how people want the OP to do weightlifting . I went through the thread I am not able to relate posts to what you are saying , may be its me who is confused ...

Also, I am not 100% sure about your claim that you "feeling" will come back after a few days ... that could be true if you do some one off weight training but if you are not training with an expert and end up strengthening some of the small muscles in the hand that let you feel the vibrations of the impact , I am pretty sure you will lose feeling in the long term.

If you look at Zhang Jike or Wang Liqins bare body pics their arms are built mostly from table tennis and not from weight training .. and hence there is the difference in muscle mass .... I recently went to a personal trainer and got my body analyis done , there is noticeable difference in the muscle mass between my arms , the trainer suggested using elastic bands and such to train the left arm and shoulder but not weightlifting ...

Many good posts have been made about the title and I think it's been answered.

However some people think that OP shouldn't stay completely away from weightlifting, and that is why the discussion is where it is.

 

[Archosaurus]

@ttmonster

Point out where I contradicted myself.


Oh, so for example, doing floor serves to strengthen the hand muscles for a better serve will make you lose feeling? You're "pretty sure"? Why will you lose feeling? Will you damage the nerves? Cause scar tissue? What is it?

 

[tropical]

I know some top US players (Khoa Nguyen, Dan Seemiller (in his book Winning table tennis)) do weight lifting, aerobic training, but definitely not body building.

 

[Ahmad Arnous]

I know some top US players (Khoa Nguyen, Dan Seemiller (in his book Winning table tennis)) do weight lifting, aerobic training, but definitely not body building.

can you Ask them what kind of weightlifting do they do ? if they can upload a video I will be thankful