Butterfly Outerforce ALC / Yasaka Psych dragon

[Wrighty67]

Hi all

Just thought I would share some initial thoughts on these two based on my initial experiences.

Some context on the blade - I was a Viscaria user for a fair amount of time before following a few coaches advice to use a slower, inner carbon blade. I immediately missed the feel of my Viscaria (immediacy, crispness, linearity) and struggled to really feel at home with any of the inner carbon blades I tried (JRE / Butterfly inner force) I really liked my W968 but always felt it was a little too much for me - too reactive and also a little hard to control. When I saw this blade I decided to give it a try, based on the very limited reviews I could find, that seemed to indicate it was a slower and easier to access outer blade. I have been using it now for about a month and early indications are that it is a great option for me - it has the overall feel of an outer carbon blade that I like. It's crisp and direct and it also feels very balanced in my hand (Anatomic handle - 88g) but it is notably softer than my Viscaria and notably easier to control when playing both topspin and close to the net. Despite being fairly thick (over 6mm) the Ayous outer layers give it a really nice feel. So far, for me, it is a very good compromise. I have an older Maze that I have always liked - this feels a little closer to that I would say.

The rubbers - I am a long time user of Yasaka Rakza Z (BH) and Rakza Z extra hard (FH) I also enjoy Bluestar A1/A2 - both very spinny with the RZ offering a little less speed but more control. A friend of mine said he had heard Psych dragon was a good alternative to RZ, and potentially better so I ordered two sheets of the med-hard from Ali to try.

It is pretty tacky like RZ but notably a little lighter (which is good news) - the hardness feels like it is about 50 deg (and I have read this too) so similar to RZ standard (although to me, the red feels a little softer than the black, but according to the seller it is the same) So far I would say I like it very much - it is maybe a tad faster than RZ but not by much, and has very similar feel in terms of bite and spin levels. The feel on contact is really nice, as is the sound it makes when you make a good contact. No idea yet on durability but at circa £20 a sheet it is very good value and I have just ordered 4 more sheets at £18/sheet in the sale.

Anyway - neither of these products have had much airtime in terms of reviews so this may be helpful for anyone considering them.

 

[Yurifi]

hi! I am looking for something similar to MMaze and you say Outerforce ALC is quite similar? don't know how to describe this feeling, but it's nice and cushy, like there is a net in the middle of the blade ... that's what I am looking for in a blade, but other than MMaze and Moonbeam blades, can't seem to find it in other blades ...

 

[steve888]

Hi all

Just thought I would share some initial thoughts on these two based on my initial experiences.

Some context on the blade - I was a Viscaria user for a fair amount of time before following a few coaches advice to use a slower, inner carbon blade. I immediately missed the feel of my Viscaria (immediacy, crispness, linearity) and struggled to really feel at home with any of the inner carbon blades I tried (JRE / Butterfly inner force) I really liked my W968 but always felt it was a little too much for me - too reactive and also a little hard to control. When I saw this blade I decided to give it a try, based on the very limited reviews I could find, that seemed to indicate it was a slower and easier to access outer blade. I have been using it now for about a month and early indications are that it is a great option for me - it has the overall feel of an outer carbon blade that I like. It's crisp and direct and it also feels very balanced in my hand (Anatomic handle - 88g) but it is notably softer than my Viscaria and notably easier to control when playing both topspin and close to the net. Despite being fairly thick (over 6mm) the Ayous outer layers give it a really nice feel. So far, for me, it is a very good compromise. I have an older Maze that I have always liked - this feels a little closer to that I would say.

The rubbers - I am a long time user of Yasaka Rakza Z (BH) and Rakza Z extra hard (FH) I also enjoy Bluestar A1/A2 - both very spinny with the RZ offering a little less speed but more control. A friend of mine said he had heard Psych dragon was a good alternative to RZ, and potentially better so I ordered two sheets of the med-hard from Ali to try.

It is pretty tacky like RZ but notably a little lighter (which is good news) - the hardness feels like it is about 50 deg (and I have read this too) so similar to RZ standard (although to me, the red feels a little softer than the black, but according to the seller it is the same) So far I would say I like it very much - it is maybe a tad faster than RZ but not by much, and has very similar feel in terms of bite and spin levels. The feel on contact is really nice, as is the sound it makes when you make a good contact. No idea yet on durability but at circa £20 a sheet it is very good value and I have just ordered 4 more sheets at £18/sheet in the sale.

Anyway - neither of these products have had much airtime in terms of reviews so this may be helpful for anyone considering them.

Great blade, I have dignics 06 (1.9mm) and G09c on the backhand of mine. I did try the D09c on the forehand but found it was a touch slow, so went to D05 which was easier to activate. Nice controllable outercarbon, maybe a touch slow at times compared to my FZD but I keep more balls on the table with the Outerforce alc.

 

[steve888]

hi! I am looking for something similar to MMaze and you say Outerforce ALC is quite similar? don't know how to describe this feeling, but it's nice and cushy, like there is a net in the middle of the blade ... that's what I am looking for in a blade, but other than MMaze and Moonbeam blades, can't seem to find it in other blades ...

The outerforce is a nice blade. I had moved from a Butterfly innerforce alc to it about 9 months ago, now the outerforce is my back up blade.
The other blade you could look at is the Marcos Fretas alc. It was the replacement of the MM - I bought a cheap 2nd hand one, its a touch faster than the outerforce alc and I heard its slightly faster than M Mase blade too. A good article on it and they mention the maze too- https://ttgearlab.com/2017/05/16/tibhar-vs-unlimited-vs-butterfly-freitas-alc-comparison/

The outerforce feels slightly softer and has slightly more control than the MF, but the MF has more spin and slightly faster. The outerforce maybe slightly faster than the MM depending on the weight. With the outerforce maybe get a heavier one if you can. I have a 88g one and a friend has a slightly heavier one and its slightly faster.

 

[Yurifi]

The outerforce is a nice blade. I had moved from a Butterfly innerforce alc to it about 9 months ago, now the outerforce is my back up blade.
The other blade you could look at is the Marcos Fretas alc. It was the replacement of the MM - I bought a cheap 2nd hand one, its a touch faster than the outerforce alc and I heard its slightly faster than M Mase blade too. A good article on it and they mention the maze too- https://ttgearlab.com/2017/05/16/tibhar-vs-unlimited-vs-butterfly-freitas-alc-comparison/

The outerforce feels slightly softer and has slightly more control than the MF, but the MF has more spin and slightly faster. The outerforce maybe slightly faster than the MM depending on the weight. With the outerforce maybe get a heavier one if you can. I have a 88g one and a friend has a slightly heavier one and its slightly faster.

looking after MF too, but it's nowhere to be found around me (close to me). I also called official Butterfly retailer and told me there is like 2-3 months waiting time ... 😳
Outerforce being soft - as in soft, vibrating soft, or soft, nice, trampolining kind of soft feel, where you have a feel that the ball somehow dipped down into the wood soft feel? that's what I felt with Moonbeam when I had it and with MMaze when I tried it and then never again ... had remotely similar feel with Xiom Ice Cream AZXi, but stupidly sold it because at the time I thought 90g for a blade is just too much ... 🤦🏻‍♂️

that's why I am looking at other options, been going through brands quickly (Xiom, Donic, DHS, andro, OSP/Palatinus ...) but seems that every Butterfly blade I try is better than everything else. maybe it's only in my head, maybe it's just bias.

 

[Tyce]

seems that every Butterfly blade I try is better than everything else. maybe it's only in my head, maybe it's just bias.

I honestly was sceptical about this - until I used my first Butterfly blades. I don't know what their magic secret is, I suspect a lot of it is in the glueing method, but every single Butterfly blade has what I like to describe as harmony. The only exception was a highly underweight (78g) Korbel EU, which still played well but was plagued by hollow vibration.

I have owned and played Korbel Japan, Timo Boll ZLC, Fzd ALC, Diode V, Innerforce Layer ALC and even a Gergely 21, and have tried even more in the store and at the club.
So a wide variety of different blades, but they all have that refined feeling, like the blade tells you what you are doing in a calm, clear voice and with not a word too much.

Most other blades feel rough or muted in comparison. All my Donic experiences are rough. Their blades either don't speak at all, or loud, or they only tell me something in a particular situation.
Other brands I tried usually are just muted or non-precise. They give feedback but only very generally. Like I'm playing with MDF, not full grain wood.
The closest I've gotten to a refined, harmonious experience is with Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon. But if I put Hurricane 3 OS on it, it starts reverberating like hell. BS is better on it, I guess the pores help control the vibration transfer.

In my opinion, Butterfly is for table tennis what Apple is in consumer electronics. The ecosystem just works. Now, I'm not an Apple guy at all because I love messing around with different hardware, but for table tennis? I don't want to keep second-guessing my equipment.

 

[steve888]

looking after MF too, but it's nowhere to be found around me (close to me). I also called official Butterfly retailer and told me there is like 2-3 months waiting time ... 😳
Outerforce being soft - as in soft, vibrating soft, or soft, nice, trampolining kind of soft feel, where you have a feel that the ball somehow dipped down into the wood soft feel? that's what I felt with Moonbeam when I had it and with MMaze when I tried it and then never again ... had remotely similar feel with Xiom Ice Cream AZXi, but stupidly sold it because at the time I thought 90g for a blade is just too much ... 🤦🏻‍♂️

that's why I am looking at other options, been going through brands quickly (Xiom, Donic, DHS, andro, OSP/Palatinus ...) but seems that every Butterfly blade I try is better than everything else. maybe it's only in my head, maybe it's just bias.

You could maybe try ebay, amazon, tabletennisdaily or see if you can get it direst form Japan. Yes the feel of butterfly blades is nice. The other brand I feel has a nice feeling is Nitakku especially the acoustic series.

 

[Yurifi]

You could maybe try ebay, amazon, tabletennisdaily or see if you can get it direst form Japan. Yes the feel of butterfly blades is nice. The other brand I feel has a nice feeling is Nitakku especially the acoustic series.

i follow a simple rule - do not buy a blade you cannot try first. because handles. wanted to do it with DHS Hurricane Long 5 and luckily I didn’t. because I tried it not long after thinking of getting one, when ST version wasn’t available, yet, and it was horrible to hold. it was rubbing my fingers, just couldn’t hold it. when ST was introduced I managed to try one and it is completely different.
and same goes for Donic ZJK New Era. can’t hold it. Donic Waldner Gold Edition - perfect. Tibhar - not compatible.
maybe with Butterfly it’s different, because I used quite a few of their blades in the past (Mazunov, Klampar, Gruba, Moonbeam, Maze) and they all were great … but still … I didn’t like Tibhar philosophy of the handle, yet, somehow, Lebrun ST version of handle is okay. so yeah - I’d like to try the blade before buying.