Butterfly Zyre 03

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Nov 2023
842
600
1,482
Where is the source to this?
Butterfly catalogue. Dignics 09 has 96 spin, against 10 for Tackfire.
1760019760514.png

1760019777131.png
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: tzifos
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Oct 2014
19,973
26,531
70,870
Read 17 reviews
Thats what the players thought, from what Igor wrote the general consensus was thicker sponges were not to their liking. ITTF were experimenting with thicker sponges, perhaps manufacturers had approached them to allow an overall thicker topsheet/sponge thickness?
with BTY Zyre the pimple length / rubber thickness has been decreased to allow a thicker sponge to be used and remain legal. BTY seem to think this is the way forward.
If manufacturers experiments are able to produce new Gen top sheets with thicker sponges that out perform their current rubbers (which may already be the case). They may try to get the ruling on top sheet/sponge thickness changed.
It may well be that in the future ITTF allow an overall increase in the thickness of rubbers.
You have to realise that the ITTF are constantly looking at many of the constituent parts of TT, tables, the finish of the table, consistency of bounce, balls etc etc
I would be against this, it would likely make the sport even faster than it is already.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2024
2,209
2,885
6,904
Read 2 reviews
I would be against this, it would likely make the sport even faster than it is already.
We could also just go back to the 38mm ball instead if we want faster...

I don't want thicker rubbers because the bats are heavy enough as it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: golden_son and ZFT
says .
says .
Member
Feb 2019
385
407
816
Read 2 reviews
tt with 38mm was mich slower than it is now.
It’s true that a 38mm ball has less friction in air vs a 40mm ball and therrfore is quicker when Struck exactly the Same, but the 40mm ball has mich less spin and Therefore you can hit much stronger, ending in quicker Balls overall.
Just watch 38mm ball Games like wlq vs ma lin. In comparison to todays games, they were awkwardly slow, because the ball had so much spin and they were not able to hit it
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2021
3,918
2,871
8,092
Read 1 reviews
tt with 38mm was mich slower than it is now.
It’s true that a 38mm ball has less friction in air vs a 40mm ball and therrfore is quicker when Struck exactly the Same, but the 40mm ball has mich less spin and Therefore you can hit much stronger, ending in quicker Balls overall.
Just watch 38mm ball Games like wlq vs ma lin. In comparison to todays games, they were awkwardly slow, because the ball had so much spin and they were not able to hit it
Don’t forget that spin counts for more with the small ball. When that seized players focused much more on speed.

Cheers
L-zr
 
  • Like
Reactions: NextLevel
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Oct 2014
19,973
26,531
70,870
Read 17 reviews
We could also just go back to the 38mm ball instead if we want faster...

I don't want thicker rubbers because the bats are heavy enough as it is.
IT doesn't quite work that way as Lazer pointed out. The smaller balls raise the spin element. It might be worth an experiment but the sport is extremely experiment averse.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
13,139
15,419
36,968
Read 3 reviews
tt with 38mm was mich slower than it is now.
It’s true that a 38mm ball has less friction in air vs a 40mm ball and therrfore is quicker when Struck exactly the Same, but the 40mm ball has mich less spin and Therefore you can hit much stronger, ending in quicker Balls overall.
Just watch 38mm ball Games like wlq vs ma lin. In comparison to todays games, they were awkwardly slow, because the ball had so much spin and they were not able to hit it
having played with all 3, I disagree.

since 38mm is so long ago, we were cleaning up and found some 38mm balls
the head coach was naughty and included it in training with U19 girls players that are 2000+ USATT.
So they had mostly 40+ balls, and few 38mm balls.
The 38mm balls all went long - they didn't even notice the smaller ball until it behaved a lot faster and traveled further.

I couldn't hit with it, it was just wrong.
 
says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jul 2020
1,993
1,527
5,358
Read 12 reviews
One thing to mention is that a 38mm ball with 200 rpm has less spin potential than the 40+mm ball with 200rpm.
That extra bit of circumference length means the surface of the ball has more energy/moves faster.
Probably small differences, whether it's relevant?
That said, if the sponge thicknesses increase and the game becomes faster, with more spin potential then things would be as fast as the 38mm ball era with more spin!!.
The spin factor is also increased because today's rubbers seam to be more spin sensitive. Which is a bi product of them being able to produce more spin than the likes of Sriver.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2024
2,209
2,885
6,904
Read 2 reviews
One thing to mention is that a 38mm ball with 200 rpm has less spin potential than the 40+mm ball with 200rpm.
That extra bit of circumference length means the surface of the ball has more energy/moves faster.
Probably small differences, whether it's relevant?
That said, if the sponge thicknesses increase and the game becomes faster, with more spin potential then things would be as fast as the 38mm ball era with more spin!!.
The spin factor is also increased because today's rubbers seam to be more spin sensitive. Which is a bi product of them being able to produce more spin than the likes of Sriver.
The problem is it takes more energy to get a 40+ ball to spin at the same rpm as a 38mm ball even if we ignore the material. Over 10% more if we keep the mass equal as well.
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
12,914
12,857
28,945
tt with 38mm was mich slower than it is now.
It’s true that a 38mm ball has less friction in air vs a 40mm ball and therrfore is quicker when Struck exactly the Same, but the 40mm ball has mich less spin and Therefore you can hit much stronger, ending in quicker Balls overall.
Just watch 38mm ball Games like wlq vs ma lin. In comparison to todays games, they were awkwardly slow, because the ball had so much spin and they were not able to hit it
I don't know about that. Steffen Fetzner started showing shot qualities of present-day early-timing hard-hitting double inverted style back in 1990.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...nd-upper-arm-all-around-you.25025/post-342243
 
says Aging is a killer
says Aging is a killer
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Oct 2011
1,547
1,365
3,909
Read 1 reviews
tt with 38mm was mich slower than it is now.
It’s true that a 38mm ball has less friction in air vs a 40mm ball and therrfore is quicker when Struck exactly the Same, but the 40mm ball has mich less spin and Therefore you can hit much stronger, ending in quicker Balls overall.
Just watch 38mm ball Games like wlq vs ma lin. In comparison to todays games, they were awkwardly slow, because the ball had so much spin and they were not able to hit it
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/matthew-syed.13941/

Every time someone repeats this opinion, I show this video.
Kong Linghui at his awesome best yes. But Matt Syed was WR in top50 and one of the top defenders of the period. Notice how close to the ball was Syed yet the ball either went through him or by him without Syed getting close. The combination of 38mm ball and boosted bats spelt the end for defenders.
I don't know how old you are, but immediately the 40mm ball was introduced, the number of exchanges per rally significantly increased at all levels. For suddenly, even me at my very low level could stand closer to the table and retrieve balls that I could not get to previously.
Spin was also greatly reduced with the 40mm ball making serves easier to return. And so on.
Table tennis in the nineties was dying. One of the big reasons was that the balls during a rally (at all levels) was so fast, that each rally tactic was about who could drive or loop the ball first. That first drive or loop usually was the end of the rally. It was so very boring that TV networks stopped showing TT.
To this day, TT has not recovered.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Feb 2019
1,238
369
1,992
Guys not only the 38mm ball, celluloid togheter the speed glue was the reasons of more spin & speed.

At speed glue time I remember not a lot of difference between blades (except Primorac carbon) or inverted rubbers using speed glue.
 
Last edited:
says Table Tennis - the sport for life.
says Table Tennis - the sport for life.
Member
Jan 2013
413
448
1,984
  • Like
Reactions: Wakkibatty
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Oct 2018
585
587
2,518
I think that is a typo... those Tackifire numbers were on a different scale, and scales changed a few few times as new rubbers were released.
You are probably right! But, as they still sell these products, shouldn't they update the numbers to be in the same scale & testing method? BTY do this for their blades, so they should do it also for the rubbers they sell. Otherwise the produce such misconceptions.
 
Top