China Smash 2025

[NextLevel]

Sigh, wasting my precious life on this crap again...

Once and for all, LGL noted LGY's mental lapse when he lost to ML after a fairly big lead at Marvellous 12 2017 and that it might have already emerged many times before but gone unnoticed all those years. He was several days from turning 22 (highly likely 24 in reality) at that point.

一针见血！高远的问题，5年前刘国梁就已经看出来了！ (Hitting the nail on the head! Liu Guoliang had already spotted Gaoyuan's problem 5 years ago!)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1T14y1b7ha?t=91

In case some of you aren't aware (not in the ITTF database), ZJK actually made a comeback win over Kishikawa after trailing 0-3 in the U21 MS final of Japan Open Kobe 2002. He was 14 at that point. The famous comeback win over Mizutani after trailing 0-3 at World Cup 2010 was his first-ever individual major tournament, and he was 22 then.

ZJK and Kishikawa on the podium
https://baike.baidu.com/item/张继科/10798169#1

For Coton, 2 games in a row like that is not normal regardless of age. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern.

Wang Chuqin lost 18 straight points to Zhou Qihao. What is his pattern?

ZJK was up 3-3, 10-4 vs Yan An and lost 8 straight points. What was the pattern?

Whatever you may say about LGY, all the people he "choked" against were usually better players than he was.

It is easy to call losing big leads "choking" but choking is a term reserved for a specific phenomenon. But if we want to call losing big leads choking, so be it, just about everyone is a choker at some point or the other then.

 

[NextLevel]

Don't count Uda out yet. I think he got a good boosting from Coach Qiu, and no one knows what Uda can do now. He could beat LYJ and Truls, then he at least has some chances against LSD.

Uda beating LSD in China in a best of 7.... I don't know about that...

 

[zeio]

Wang Chuqin lost 18 straight points to Zhou Qihao. What is his pattern?

ZJK was up 3-3, 10-4 vs Yan An and lost 8 straight points. What was the pattern?

Whatever you may say about LGY, all the people he "choked" against were usually better players than he was.

It is easy to call losing big leads "choking" but choking is a term reserved for a specific phenomenon. But if we want to call losing big leads choking, so be it, just about everyone is a choker at some point or the other then.

I was going to write about that for a different thread. LGL also touched on that several years ago (I have the translation somewhere).

 

[NextLevel]

I was going to write about that for a different thread. LGL also touched on that several years ago (I have the translation somewhere).

Go find the wise words of LGL and then apply them to this point which is the ultimate choking point of all time: Or just let it go and realize the point shows how ridiculous this is, give Xiang some credit please!

 

[kindof99]

Go find the wise words of LGL and then apply them to this point which is the ultimate choking point of all time: Or just let it go and realize the point shows how ridiculous this is, give Xiang some credit please!

What Coton needs is a top coach to analyze and refine his game a little bit. Maybe improve his push skill? He has amazing backhand and footwork. He could be a top 20 top player very soon.

 

[Dr Evil]

For Coton, 2 games in a row like that is not normal regardless of age. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern.

Did you actually watch the match? No choking by Coton, just some very clutch play from XP who is a much stronger player. Coton even played some of his best points during his losing streaks, but XP was just better and more solid (reminded me of comeback king LJK stepping back from the table and refusing to miss).

 

[NextLevel]

What Coton needs is a top coach to analyze and refine his game a little bit. Maybe improve his push skill? He has amazing backhand and footwork. He could be a top 20 top player very soon.

So the coach that got him there is not a top coach? He got to be the top junior in Europe and France just by working with not-so-top coaches? Seriously?

 

[zeio]

Moregard
R64 1 time (11.1%);
R32 3 times (33.3%);
R16 2 times (22.2%) out of 9 GS,
a still appalling total of 44.4% 1st-and-2nd-round-exit rate.

Szocs
R64 6 times (66.7%);
R32 2 times (22.2%);
R16 1 time (11.1%) out of 9 GS,
1st-round-exit rate down from 75%;
2nd-round-exit rate up from 12.5%;
1st-and-2nd-round-exit rate, 88.9%, up from 87.5%.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...sh-sweden-august-14-24-2025.35820/post-537900

WTT events have so few seeds (1/6 (8) main draw for GS in 2022, 16 starting in 2023), it often comes down to the draw. For example, Moregard dropped in R64 1 time (12.5%) and R32 3 times (37.5%) out of 8 GS, a whopping total of 50% 1st-and-2nd-round-exit rate. That explains the inconsistent history of Moregard's WR. And Szocs, the one other than Hirano who had the highest win rate against the CNT? Points are also so low now (remember how you complained how the point gap the different rounds were so close back in 2018 and how I said it would pan out eventually?) Don't forget the higher odds of upsets in bo5 compared to bo7. All things considered, it's not necessarily easier now.

 

[zeio]

Did you actually watch the match? No choking by Coton, just some very clutch play from XP who is a much stronger player. Coton even played some of his best points during his losing streaks, but XP was just better and more solid (reminded me of comeback king LJK stepping back from the table and refusing to miss).

4:0 to 4:11 in G2 and
3:0, then 3:4 to 7:4, then 7:5 to 10:5 to 10:10 to 11:10 to 12:11 to 12:14 in G3.

Please don't waste my time. No time to be sentimental and delusional here.

Xiang Peng vs Flavien Coton | MS R16 | #ChinaSmash 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ7ijfOMe2c

 

[Metaxa]

What Coton needs is a top coach to analyze and refine his game a little bit. Maybe improve his push skill? He has amazing backhand and footwork. He could be a top 20 top player very soon.

There is nothing wrong with is push. Unbelievable BH but I saw severals bad timing. He was faster with his arm but the ball wasn’t there yet. Not sure if XP is a stronger player (in my opinion not) but XP was much more consistent in this match.
What I do know is that this youngster will make it. With more experience at the highest level, he will also learn to make the right decisions at the right time.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

That was a night/morning of matches where a lot weren't so close! Felt like a change of pace from recent events with highly-disputed matches present throughout, and even the previous days in this one... The next rounds should be epic!!!

 

[kindof99]

So the coach that got him there is not a top coach? He got to be the top junior in Europe and France just by working with not-so-top coaches? Seriously?

You can always argue that he can't get to the current level without a good coach. And the one more step argument is that he would somehow need a better coach because he lost. And to improve, a perspective from another (better?) coach won't hurt.

 

[kindof99]

There is nothing wrong with is push. Unbelievable BH but I saw severals bad timing. He was faster with his arm but the ball wasn’t there yet. Not sure if XP is a stronger player (in my opinion not) but XP was much more consistent in this match.
What I do know is that this youngster will make it. With more experience at the highest level, he will also learn to make the right decisions at the right time.

He popped up a lot of receives and forced to move backward. France does get a lot of promising young players.

 

[NextLevel]

4:0 to 4:11 in G2 and
3:0, then 3:4 to 7:4, then 7:5 to 10:5 to 10:10 to 11:10 to 12:11 to 12:14 in G3.

Please don't waste my time. No time to be sentimental and delusional here.

Xiang Peng vs Flavien Coton | MS R16 | #ChinaSmash 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ7ijfOMe2c

What is delusional about pointing out that the opponent has a right to hit the ball too and that if a player went on a streak of sorts to get to 10-5, the other player has a right to go on a streak to 10-10? It's pretty ridiculous to make streaks about some silly pseudosciencr especially when the player who lost was essentially the player predicted to lose by most people before the match was played.

 

[NextLevel]

He popped up a lot of receives and forced to move backward. France does get a lot of promising young players.

He played a much higher ranked player and was the underdog. He is 5 years younger than his opponent. Isn't he expected to play worse given where he is in his personal development? Why are we looking for special explanations to explain mistakes that just about any player could make in similar circumstances? And not on the basis of lots of matches but on the basis of two games within a match. Not by looking at the points primarily or the quality of play within the points but on the basis of looking for explanations for why a talented kid lost to an older and more experienced and likely better player by any objective measure at the moment. Just because there were fairly long streaks of losing points.

 

[NextLevel]

There is nothing wrong with is push. Unbelievable BH but I saw severals bad timing. He was faster with his arm but the ball wasn’t there yet. Not sure if XP is a stronger player (in my opinion not) but XP was much more consistent in this match.
What I do know is that this youngster will make it. With more experience at the highest level, he will also learn to make the right decisions at the right time.

Your opinion is okay to have but you are swimming uphill against mountains of evidence in coming to any conclusion that makes Coton the better player. Xiang Peng is far more accomplished, far more experienced and far more stable. Yes, experience is part of reliable performance and better play. Is Coton capable of beating Peng? Sure, there are ways of showing this. But would that make Coton the better player? No.

 

[NextLevel]

Last comment to make s point: from 7-7 in game 1 to 4-0 in game 2, Coton won 8 straight points. Then Peng won 11 straight points. Did Peng choke then wake up? Or did they just pass choking batons to each other?

 

[Metaxa]

Your opinion is okay to have but you are swimming uphill against mountains of evidence in coming to any conclusion that makes Coton the better player. Xiang Peng is far more accomplished, far more experienced and far more stable. Yes, experience is part of reliable performance and better play. Is Coton capable of beating Peng? Sure, there are ways of showing this. But would that make Coton the better player? No.

I think Coton is a stronger/powerful player than his opponent XP, but he still lacks consistency, which is not surprising given his age.

 

[Metaxa]

Last comment to make s point: from 7-7 in game 1 to 4-0 in game 2, Coton won 8 straight points. Then Peng won 11 straight points. Did Peng choke then wake up? Or did they just pass choking batons to each other?

Yes, that's right, and those are precisely the three points where his timing with his BH is off. If he becomes more consistent, the minor errors will automatically disappear and we will see a player who can take Alexis' place in the top 15-20 in the world.

 

[FIXPOINT]

China Smash 2025 WS R16

China Smash 2025 MS R16